Rumor: AVS Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents & Related Topics 2016-17 Part IV

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Tommy Shelby

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Feb 26, 2012
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MacKinnon and Rantanen are the only players I would keep on this roster. Trade whatever you can out of the rest and blow this thing up.

The core of the rebuild shouldn't have Duchene or Landeskog in it. Those are complementary players on a Cup winning team and neither look like top 3 picks into their mid-20's. Neither of those players resemble anything of a champion with passion and drive. If they did, this team wouldn't be the worst in the NHL with them at the heart of the core.

I disagree with this. Landeskog isn't the problem. He carries a lot on his shoulders and remains professional. He does things with and without the puck that makes his linemates better. MacKinnon is the one you should be talking about here. If he's not putting up points he's basically doing nothing. Duchene is the same way except he at least wins faceoffs.

There's a reason why MacK looked his best playing with Landy and Staz, and that reason certainly wasn't that HE made THEM better.
 

CB Joe

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Oct 12, 2008
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If the Avs blow up the core they absolutely need an experienced GM in place. Sakic and MacFarland just aren't cutting it.

The best teams in the league are the teams that can skate. Avs need to change from building towards size to building towards speed. The other thing they need is a higher compete level. There are too many aging players and too many players just here for the paycheque.

The focus right now should be to dump players that don't fit the up coming retool/rebuild and acquire as many picks as possible. With the upcoming expansion draft there is going to be some decent young players on the move and having cap space and picks is vital to landing some of these players.
 

MikeC

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Feb 28, 2002
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The real statement is how none of you haven't rioted already. The team is already joke with Duchene, MacKinnon, EJ, Barrie, Varlamov, and Rantanen. Not saying we should trade everyone, but a couple gone is looking more like a great idea than not.

Duchene, MacKinnon, EJ, Barrie, Varlamov, and Rantanen ... none of those players have shown leadership quality. (Rantanen is still young so lets give him a chance)

The biggest mistake made by the Avs was when they traded O'Reilly. Ror, Landy, Mack was a line the Avs should have build around. Duchene was the player they needed to trade and they shoukd have traded Statsny instead of letting him go for free.

EJ is not a first dman and never will be. Barrie is not a top 1 or top 2 dman.

If the Avs blow up the core they absolutely need an experienced GM in place. Sakic and MacFarland just aren't cutting it.

The best teams in the league are the teams that can skate. Avs need to change from building towards size to building towards speed. The other thing they need is a higher compete level. There are too many aging players and too many players just here for the paycheque.

The focus right now should be to dump players that don't fit the up coming retool/rebuild and acquire as many picks as possible. With the upcoming expansion draft there is going to be some decent young players on the move and having cap space and picks is vital to landing some of these players.

They dont need an experience GM they need a better one.
 

Freudian

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Jul 3, 2003
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If you have a cord that's tangled up, you're not going to fix it by frantically pulling at it. You untangle it by being patient and taking it slow.

Same here. Start to get rid of the dead weight if you can. Let bad contracts expire when that's an option. Try to get Vegas to take someone we don't want, even if you have to give up a pick. If there is a good deal for a core player, consider it.

This firesale talk is just fan frustration. I realize this. But teams can't change in a significant way in-season. You can nibble at the edges but this is what we have until June.
 

Goulet17

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May 22, 2003
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Latest from Bruce Garrioch in the Ottawa Sun today:

(http://www.ottawasun.com/2016/12/10/insider-trading-coyotes-should-blow-it-up-sooner-than-later)

"If any general managers are looking to play Let’s Make a Deal, they might want to give Colorado Avalanche counterpart Joe Sakic a call because we’ve been told he’s willing to trade. While the Avs won’t move centre Nathan MacKinnon, the indications are the Avs, who had only 10 wins in their first 25 games heading into Saturday’s visit to Montreal, are pretty much willing to discuss just about anybody. Sakic is an interesting spot with the Avs roster because if the club isn’t going to make the playoffs then maybe it’s in everybody’s interests to bottom out and get a high draft pick. There is no pressure on Sakic to win with coach Patrick Roy gone so Colorado will be an interesting spot to keep an eye on as the season progresses. If the Avs want to make an impact move, they should deal goaltender Semyon Varlamov because they’ll be able to get young assets in return."
 

AnimalMother73

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Sep 17, 2009
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If the Avs blow up the core they absolutely need an experienced GM in place. Sakic and MacFarland just aren't cutting it.

The best teams in the league are the teams that can skate. Avs need to change from building towards size to building towards speed. The other thing they need is a higher compete level. There are too many aging players and too many players just here for the paycheque.

The focus right now should be to dump players that don't fit the up coming retool/rebuild and acquire as many picks as possible. With the upcoming expansion draft there is going to be some decent young players on the move and having cap space and picks is vital to landing some of these players.

I'd take it a step further and say they need to bring in someone at a high enough level to set a 5-10 year organizational vision. Someone who will change to a fundamental mentality of building thru the draft. Someone who can craft out a team identity based on today and tomorrow's NHL. Someone who will fire all of the long time leadership left who has fostered a nepotistic approach to management that has left the Avalanche devoid of the talent needed for an NHL team. Someone who will put emphasis on effective free agent scouting. Someone who will bring in a GM who understands that a team is the sum of its parts not a collection of talent; someone who can successfully execute trades consistent with the organization's vision........but unfortunately this team is owned by the Kroenkes so I doubt anything like this happens.
 

AslanRH

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I agree with TV about the buying leadership bit. I think trading EJ will very much be like letting Stastny go in the sense that he seems to have many of the same "glue" characteristics Stastny did. I still believe Sakic undervalues that though and likely always will.

I've said before that I believe in Pickard. I think he will improve his consistence if he knows he's the #1 and if he has a vet backup. I may be wrong, but didn't he play better in SA when he was getting a steady workload? I deal Varly now. Likely a backup comes back in the deal anyway.

I've also said I thought Barrie probably had his career season last year. I am even more a believer in that watching him play this year. While I won't say he needs to be traded, I wouldn't object to him being moved for a more rounded defenseman.

If I'm Sakic I also
- trade the vets (Iggy and Beauch) out of respect. at the least.
- Make sure the team knows I'm committed to Bednar
- Open my office to all the other players and ask them if they want to be here. If not, trade them.
- Consult with Bednar (and perhaps the player) about the players he thinks fit what he wants to do. If they don't fit, trade them.

The last two specifically would focus on guys like Soderberg, Grigorenko, and Colbourne. Of course finding teams to take the players is another issue, but at least you will know who you are shopping
 

Alex Jones

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Jun 8, 2009
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I'd take it a step further and say they need to bring in someone at a high enough level to set a 5-10 year organizational vision. Someone who will change to a fundamental mentality of building thru the draft. Someone who can craft out a team identity based on today and tomorrow's NHL. Someone who will fire all of the long time leadership left who has fostered a nepotistic approach to management that has left the Avalanche devoid of the talent needed for an NHL team. Someone who will put emphasis on effective free agent scouting. Someone who will bring in a GM who understands that a team is the sum of its parts not a collection of talent; someone who can successfully execute trades consistent with the organization's vision........but unfortunately this team is owned by the Kroenkes so I doubt anything like this happens.
Yes, please. You MUST have a meaningful blueprint to build a good team. The avs do not have that.
 

Avs71

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Aug 12, 2008
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The bright side to all of this is there are very few players signed beyond next season. Lots expiring this season, and hopefully Sakic is able to trade a guy like Beauchemin/Soderberg.

This locker room probably could have used a Weber type trade. Apparently Weber changed the dynamic of the Habs locker room. The Avs swung and missed on this sort of thing twice, with Iginla and Beauchemin. With that said, I love TV's post about buying leadership, and totally agree with it. Unless it's a core rocking change that hands the team over to a new Superstar, the Avs need to keep some guys who can lead.
 

Cousin Eddie

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Nov 3, 2006
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According to Friedman on HNIC, Iginla is willing to waive and wants to leave. See ya! :handclap:

Is there any full quotes on this? I'm traveling so I haven't really been reading Twitter like I usually do. I'd like to know what Iggy said exactly and who he said it to. Maybe another team heard T from Sakic during discussions or something but I'd defiantly like to hear more.
 

InjuredChoker

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Is there any full quotes on this? I'm traveling so I haven't really been reading Twitter like I usually do. I'd like to know what Iggy said exactly and who he said it to. Maybe another team heard T from Sakic during discussions or something but I'd defiantly like to hear more.

friedman just referenced the dater interview and how he's heard that avs are wiould to look for a trade if iggy is willing to waive.
 

tigervixxxen

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Jul 7, 2013
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Latest from Bruce Garrioch in the Ottawa Sun today:

(http://www.ottawasun.com/2016/12/10/insider-trading-coyotes-should-blow-it-up-sooner-than-later)

"If any general managers are looking to play Let’s Make a Deal, they might want to give Colorado Avalanche counterpart Joe Sakic a call because we’ve been told he’s willing to trade. While the Avs won’t move centre Nathan MacKinnon, the indications are the Avs, who had only 10 wins in their first 25 games heading into Saturday’s visit to Montreal, are pretty much willing to discuss just about anybody. Sakic is an interesting spot with the Avs roster because if the club isn’t going to make the playoffs then maybe it’s in everybody’s interests to bottom out and get a high draft pick. There is no pressure on Sakic to win with coach Patrick Roy gone so Colorado will be an interesting spot to keep an eye on as the season progresses. If the Avs want to make an impact move, they should deal goaltender Semyon Varlamov because they’ll be able to get young assets in return."

Hm, maybe they do get it. I like the part about no pressure to win now. It should be about the future. Garroich was right about what Sakic wanted back in the ROR trade.
 

Goulet17

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May 22, 2003
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By the way, what is going on between Rycroft and Zadorov.

I understand that Zadorov is a work in progress and he has his warts, but Rycroft made a point to isolate his play after the periods and to mention him after the game. He did not really do the same with other players. I have seem him do this before with Zadorov and even dating back to last year (a game against the Blue Jackets comes to mind in which he criticized Zadorov for what appeared to be Holden's mistake).

He isolated Zadorov last night and appeared to lay most of the blame for the 7th goal on him, which seems a little bizarre in my mind.
 

Avs71

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Aug 12, 2008
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Interesting that Garrioch believes they could get young assets for Varlamov. From who? I would love to see a midseason trade, but with that amount of salary it will probably have to be a summer deal.
 

The Mars Volchenkov

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By the way, what is going on between Rycroft and Zadorov.

I understand that Zadorov is a work in progress and he has his warts, but Rycroft made a point to isolate his play after the periods and to mention him after the game. He did not really do the same with other players. I have seem him do this before with Zadorov and even dating back to last year (a game against the Blue Jackets comes to mind in which he criticized Zadorov for what appeared to be Holden's mistake).

He isolated Zadorov last night and appeared to lay most of the blame for the 7th goal on him, which seems a little bizarre in my mind.
The Avs gave up 10 goals last night and he only isolated on a 4th liner and a 21 year old defenseman. He's called Beauchemin the best defenseman on the team this year, and never points out any of his mistakes. When the Avs scored an awesome skilled goal in the Nashville game, he chose to point out how McLeod was the one who drew the penalty. He has his favorites but I don't think he's been nearly as good this year as he has been in past years.
 

AslanRH

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Interesting that Garrioch believes they could get young assets for Varlamov. From who? I would love to see a midseason trade, but with that amount of salary it will probably have to be a summer deal.

Dallas immediately comes to mind. We'd end up with Niemi or Lehtonen back, but the rest would likely be prospects and picks.

Carolina (Ward/Lack), Winnipeg (Pavelec), Calgary (Elliot/Johnson likely with Wideman), Ottawa maybe if Anderson takes an extended leave.

It could be done but I agree, it is unlikely unless a team loses a starter.
 

henchman21

Mr. Meeseeks
Feb 24, 2012
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Z makes mistakes... nothing wrong with pointing them out.

I don't think the core is rotten, but it is becoming very clear that the fit isn't there (especially at center). Bednar isn't helping things by not adjusting and forcing Duchene on the wing. If Bednar isn't going to adapt to his roster, some major changes need to be made and Sakic will have to be aggressive.
 

NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS

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Feb 28, 2006
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What can the Avs get for Duchene with 50% retained? :D

Hoping by Christmas we'll start seeing Montreal fans think Duchene is a boat anchor cap dump type.
 

tigervixxxen

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Z makes mistakes... nothing wrong with pointing them out.

I don't think the core is rotten, but it is becoming very clear that the fit isn't there (especially at center). Bednar isn't helping things by not adjusting and forcing Duchene on the wing. If Bednar isn't going to adapt to his roster, some major changes need to be made and Sakic will have to be aggressive.

I don't think anyone has issue with pointing out Z's mistakes, it's the not pointing out others' mistakes.

Duchene has looked best on the wing and if he plays center we don't have enough wingers to fill out the lines. It's damned if you do, damned if you don't. Mack and soda need to be the top 2Cs and live with the rest this year.
 

henchman21

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Feb 24, 2012
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I don't think anyone has issue with pointing out Z's mistakes, it's the not pointing out others' mistakes.

Duchene has looked best on the wing and if he plays center we don't have enough wingers to fill out the lines. It's damned if you do, damned if you don't. Mack and soda need to be the top 2Cs and live with the rest this year.

It is selective hearing... Rycroft has pointed out many mistakes by other players. People are hyper sensitive about anything bad said about Z.

I wouldn't say he has looked best at wing this year. He had good and bad moments at both.

When Duchene gets pushed to wing you end up with 2 of Colborne, Grigo, and Mitchell getting regular shifts at center... when combined they shouldn't get more than 12 minutes combined in a game at that position. The only possible way to be decent down the middle involves Soda, MacK, and Duchene down the middle. The wing depth would be helped if Bednar would get off his high horse about Colborne. Not perfect, but center is far more important than wing and being better there would make the team better.
 

Sea Eagles

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Feb 7, 2012
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He used the word "embarrassing" more than once. The fact that he didn't throw a temper tantrum after that speaks to his maturity.

I don't know if you ever played sports, but a large part of being on a team is learning how to deal with losses. Even bad ones. You HAVE to move on after a bad game. No sports team wins every game, so in order to be a professional athlete, you have to learn to take it one game at a time and when you lose, approach the next game like it's a fresh slate. If you start letting losses get to you, you are DOOMED. He's trying to tell himself and his teammates that everything will be OK. That's a significant part of having a winning attitude.

You find me an interview with a professional hockey player from a basement team where they say "Yeah, we sucked tonight, we're just a bad team and the season is over already" and I'll eat my words. I don't know what the hell you expected Landeskog to say after that, but I doubt it was anything that any professional would ever say in a media interview.

Didn't Jiggy do that with our very own team? He called it what, "Vegas culture", because he said the players had mailed it in, and were planning their post season trip to Las Vegas.

He said the team played terribly, and needed more heart (or along those lines).

That's just a thought on OUR team before I think about anyone else.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/avs/201...nche-tirade-against-teammates-practice/12915/

First off, Jean-Sebastien Giguere has the absolute right to say what he did tonight. On a night where he moved into 47th placed on the all-time NHL list for games played by a goalie, Jiggy blew his top after the Avs’ 3-1 loss to the 29th-place Calgary Flames at home.
Jean-Sebastien Giguere is pictured with former Colorado Avalanche goalie Patrick Roy.

Jean-Sebastien Giguere is pictured with former Colorado Avalanche goalie Patrick Roy.

Jiggy has shown himself to speak his mind before during this season, but there was nothing to compare to his words tonight. After talking with Matt Duchene for a couple minutes after the game, I wound my way over to Jiggy’s locker to get his thoughts. One look at his fuming face, and I knew I needed to double-check whether my recorder was all set to go.

Here, in transcript form, is what Jiggy had to say. But first, as I said, this is a player who has earned the right to say something like this. He’s a passionate guy who has won a Stanley Cup and won a Conn Smythe Trophy for a losing Cup finalist. He’s a pro’s pro. But, as we’ll see here, he does not believe enough guys in his own dressing room are playing, or acting, like pros right now.

Jiggy started off by talking about the Avs’ on-ice problems from tonight and in general:

“As long as we don’t understand that we have to play better in our zone, we’ll never win any games. We have to do a better job in our own zone. That’s where it starts. We have to learn this at some point.”

OK, pretty strong comment there, about never winning any games if they don’t play better in their own zone. That in itself would have been a lead quote in any hack beat writer’s story, so I was ready to run with that in my mind as Jiggy kept talking. But, oh, that was tame compared to what was coming…

“The (allowing) the first goal is one part of it (problems), but I think it comes down to us not playing very well defensively. We spend too much time in our own zone, and that’s hard. That’s where it’s hard. We know we can score some goals, we have some offensive tools. But when you spend part of the second period in your zone and give up too many scoring chances, you’re not going to win games like that.

“We talk about it every day. At some point, we have to understand. There’s no more excuses. It’s not about being young, it’s not about … we have to put our head into the game.”

OK, still fairly strong stuff there. But after saying that, you could see Jiggy just sort of say to himself, “Screw this, I’m gonna go rogue here and really tell it like it is.” Which led to this:

“Some guys are more worried about their Vegas trip at the end of the season than playing the games, than playing every minute of the games. Quite frankly, I don’t care about your Vegas trip right now.”

Whoa. I gotta say, that is the strongest quote I’ve ever gotten from an Avs player in my 18 years covering the team. Patrick Roy came pretty close to that with a few statements. I remember one game, from the 1997-98 season I think, where Roy blew up at his teammates’ effort in a lopsided home loss to Dallas, saying something like, “All we do is make excuses around here.”

But that quote about Vegas? That will go down in history I have a feeling. But wait, there’s more:

“It’s not constructive. We have to find a way to get out of this losing mentality, you know? It starts with me and the guy beside me and everyone has to do their part.”

Then this, as Jiggy got even more red in the face with anger:

“It’s embarrassing. I’m embarrassed to be here right now. It’s not even funny.”

I then asked Jiggy if the true problem with this team is just its lack of focus or preparation or pride or whatever, and he said:

“I don’t know what it is. I’ve been around for 15 years in this league and I don’t know what it is. I don’t know why we seem like we don’t care at points. I don’t know, I don’t know we seem like, you know — some guys are fighting to show that they belong in the NHL, some guys are fighting for contracts. And it’s just embarrassing, the way we, you know, the energy we have in the room and the way we approach practices and the way we approach this game. It’s not how you’re going to win any games in this league. I mean, this is a team (Calgary) that we can beat if we set our minds to it, and every day is the same story. I don’t know what to say. I’m beyond words right now.”

I then something to the effect of, “Hey, things are pretty good around here too about five weeks ago. You beat the Chicago Blackhawks and were at .500 and…” and then Jiggy cut me off to say:

“But that was just one game. It’s easy to get going when you play a team that is going to embarrass you if you don’t play well. You’ve got to play like this against every team in this league. There’s not one easy game in this league, so you’ve got to play hard and you’ve got to play well every night. You’ve got to find a way to get yourself motivated and focused. It has nothing to do with who you’re playing. It’s about how you prepare yourself and how you approach the game. It’s not about which team you’re playing. Yeah, everybody’s going to get motivated when you play the Hawks. I mean, the building is full and that’s easy to do. But can you get yourself going when you play the Calgary Flames? Can you do that right now? And obviously, we’re too immature to do that.”

And that was pretty much that. I probably could have hung around a little longer and gotten into it more with Jiggy, but you got the sense that this was the end anyway and, well, I have deadlines.

A couple quick thoughts on this, but more tomorrow:

Jiggy has mentioned a couple of times how poorly he believes his team practices. That seems to fall under the heading of “maybe the team isn’t coached well enough”, as practice is truly the time for coaching in this league. Yet, Jiggy has not criticized Joe Sacco to me, even privately. I think Jiggy is just truly fed up with some of his teammates’ work ethic — or lack thereof.
I’m not going to speculate here on who the guys he might have been talking about who only care right now about their Vegas trips soon. He didn’t single anybody out, so I won’t get reckless and do that either.
If the Avs end up getting rid of Jiggy at all because of this sudden burst of honest, shame on them. He has another year left on his contract, with a no-trade clause. But I doubt the Avs would do that. If they’re smart — no jokes, please — they will admit: Giguere is right, and he’s exactly the kind of guy they need more of around here.

– Another good take on the postgame atmosphere, from a reporter who was there with me.

OK, time to go. I suspect Jiggy gave everyone a lot to talk about tonight.

Mcmetal - eating your words mate ? Hehehehe. It does happen.
 
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Sea Eagles

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Funny, Jiggy's words still are completely valid today, with our current squad, roster, attitude and culture. Almost scarily relevant. 3 years later, and it's exactly the same thing. Jeez.
 

AslanRH

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Funny, Jiggy's words still are completely valid today, with our current squad, roster, attitude and culture. Almost scarily relevant. 3 years later, and it's exactly the same thing. Jeez.

All that text and I still don't see a player publicly saying

"Yeah, we sucked tonight, we're just a bad team and the season is over already"

which is explicitly what McMetal was looking for
 
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Don Corleone

Registered User
Jul 9, 2013
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Hopefully they finish dead last and have many other horrific losses just to prove to everyone that the team stinks. Also to stop Sakic and management from living in dreamland and continue to think that the Avs are not too far from being a good team, you are a bottom feeder act like it.

The best way to go would be just to do a mini rebuild for the next couple of years. I would argue that the Avs are in a terrific spot to do so. Not many rebuilding teams have the core pieces and young players the Avs do. Therefore, if they wanted they could easily trade the core and get a lot back. Then suck for a few years and look much better than now. However, they would need to get a true star player from the draft not a Mack level guy or even that rebuild would end up being pointless.
 

ottawa

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Nov 7, 2012
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Hello Avs fans! I'm sure you guys noticed Friedman said (or spread a rumour) that Iginla would be willing to waive his NCM to go to a contender.

What would the Avalanche of Colorado want from the habs for him, assuming there's either a 50% retention or none at all.
 
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