Rumor: AVS Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents & Related Topics 2016-17 Part IV

[Yetti090]

Would also love to see if we could take Jarnkrok from NSH. They just don't have a spot for him and I could see him develop into a top 6 guy. Better then Grigs in my opinion

 

[Balthazar]

Would also love to see if we could take Jarnkrok from NSH. They just don't have a spot for him and I could see him develop into a top 6 guy.

Him and Duclair and my 2 biggest non-AVS disappointments this year.

 

[krombat]

Ferrence is off the books this year and Fayne the year after. Soda is on the books until 20/21 but you're right of course. Barrie is awesome and Grigo is just a few shifts away from turning it around. Soda will only get better with age. What was I thinking. So sorry. A top six next year like;
Landy-Mack-Puljujarvi
Jost-Dutch-Rants
would suck and RNH would never help get us a top pairing D

 

[Yetti090]

Him and Duclair and my 2 biggest non-AVS disappointments this year.

I just think that they don't utilize Jarnkrok. He is often on their 3rd/4th line. I think he could do well in a top 6 role and since he isn't preforming this season, might be able to get him relatively cheap.

 

[Balthazar]

Landy-Mack-Puljujarvi

If we go full rebuild (like we should) I want a deal around EJ and Puljujarvi. Makes a lot sense for the Oilers, too. They want a reliable RHD that can play on the PP. EJ is in his prime and signed for many years so they wouldn't have to worry about losing him either.

 

[Balthazar]

 

[Yetti090]

He is full blown stupid.

 

[Pokecheque]

I don't think they'll go all nuclear on the roster. And they shouldn't. If a core player is traded I guess that's just what's gonna happen, but if they do a full-blown gutting then they shouldn't stop at the roster.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Ferrence is off the books this year and Fayne the year after. Soda is on the books until 20/21 but you're right of course. Barrie is awesome and Grigo is just a few shifts away from turning it around. Soda will only get better with age. What was I thinking. So sorry. A top six next year like;
Landy-Mack-Puljujarvi
Jost-Dutch-Rants
would suck and RNH would never help get us a top pairing D

- Both of those guys have negative value. They add absolutely nothing to a team and are on truly awful contracts. Doesn't matter when they end.

- Right, I forgot this is HF Boards where 30 games or poor play(In which he's still on a 40 point pace) is all it takes to ignore 3+ seasons of fantastic play). Even as someone with just two posts you've already adopted to the HF logic. Impressive.

- Didn't even mention Grigorenko a single time in my post but hey, if that's how you feel about him why would you want to trade him...

- I honestly have no idea what you were thinking....

- No, RNH really would not help us to get a Top pairing D. Have you even watched him play this year or looked at the numbers he's producing? He's been absolutely awful and there's a reason why Oilers fans are quick to include him in almost every proposal they make. He would not fetch us anything close to a Top pairing Dman at this point. He would actually have to be an add on to a much bigger piece in order to fetch a true top pairing Dman that fits the age of our core like we need.


And finally, while Puljujarvi is a great prospect and certainly a nice piece for us to add. He's absolutely not someone we should be trading our 1st for. That 1st is a lock to be a Top 5 pick at this point next season. We're gonna draft a player with just as much skill and potential as him most (And potentially even more if we end up with Patrick, Hischier, or Liljegren from the draft). It makes absolutely no sense for us to move that pick given the current state of this team.

 

[henchman21]

Jarnkrok isn't going to be more than a 3rd liner. He isn't playing that much worse than he is. The term on his contract is kinda scary, even if it is cheap.

I'm not the biggest Puljujarvi fan, but he'd contend for the #1 pick in this draft.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

To the "don't trade the core trade the crap instead" crowd: If our bottom 6 isn't good enough to play on the worst team in the NHL, they aren't good enough to take a roster spot elsewhere. There's a reason why Mitchell cleared waivers.

There's only one reasonable, non-emotional solution to get out of the mess:

1- Trade what's tradable for pics (Beauch, Soda, Iggy..) and retain salary if you have to. We won't be spending to the cap anytime soon anyway.

2- keep the rest of crap until their contracts expire, don't renew

3- trade the older core for prospects and high draft pics

4- wait until the youngsters are ready to replace the core and the current crap

That's not neccesarily true at all. Teams may look at our Bottom 6 and see things they like in certain guys and think they can more out of them on there team compared to ours.

Especially when it comes to player like Iginla, Comeau, Mitchell, and perhaps even Colborne or Soderberg. These guys have been around a while and have a track record of what they can do. So teams may very well believe a fresh start on a better team where these guys are playing more established roles that fit there style may help them play better then what we're seeing right now.


Also, Mitchell passing through waivers means nothing. When he was waived, in order for a team to claim him they would have had to use ~1.6M in cap space on him to bring him to there team as it was only 10(?) or so games into the season when he was waived.


At the trade deadline, we'll be 60% through the season, and the amount of cap space required for a team to take him on will be significantly less then that 1.6M. A lot more flexibility for those teams especially once you factor in the Avs ability to retain salary on a trade(Something they cant do with waivers either).



Mitchell is actually a decent 4C/depth option and Playoff teams will have interest in him at the deadline. If the Avs go full sell mode(I cant see them possibly not if they're in dead last and 15+ points out of a playoff spot at that point, what team has ever not sold in that same situation before? The Avs have never been this bad, this early in a season) then Mitchell should return a ~5th or 6th round pick somewhere around the league. While Iggy, Bourque, Tyutin, and maybe Beauch(We'd have to retain on him though given his contract next year as well) would return higher picks.

 

[detrude]

We know the answer he wanted to see, but in reality it's both. Our depth scoring is awful this year and a big reason why we have trouble scoring. Duchene, MacKinnon, and Rantanen have a combined 57 points, the rest of our forwards combined have 65. Duchene and MacKinnon drive our offense, and if they can't score we're probably not scoring.

The other problem is these guys, and the core as a whole, are inconsistent in scoring. Landeskog has been held scoreless in 13 of the 21 games he's played this year. MacKinnon is scoreless in 16 of 31. Duchene is scoreless in 11 of 27. This needs to improve if we want the team to improve. Hell, Duchene and MacKinnon combined only have 3 more points than Connor McDavid.

 

[Foppa2118]

I can't say I agree with a lot of what you said, especially the part about him being useless after the first half of last year. Both coaches have over extended him when he plays well, and that's when his game dips. There's no denying there's inconsistency in his game, but that's why he's a bottom 6 player and not anything more. He's one of our better forecheckers and a good PK guy.

It really doesn't have anything to do with overplaying him. If someone wants to consider him an average 3rd liner, I wouldn't fight them too much on it, but at this point I've seen enough of him to consider him a below average 3rd liner. He just doesn't do enough to help the team to make up for how he hurts it.

He's an ok forechecker, but that's because this team has so many sub par forecheckers. I mean if you're comparing him to guys like Colborne, or Grigo, or even Mitchell and Iggy, and of course he's one of the better guys, but in general for a gritty 3rd liner he's nothing much to write home about.

I love gritty role players like him, so I should be incline to like him, but he just doesn't do enough, or play hard often enough. He's a lot like Mitchell. They just do enough to earn a paycheck.

He kills the play very often with some of the oddest turnovers, and takes way too many bad penalties. Plus he's not that great of a PKer. He only plays physical in 5-10 game stretches. Of which we're in the middle of now. And he, like the other vets on the team (Iggy, Mitchell, Soda) just don't lead a young team the way they are supposed to. They're just along for the ride. Vets in their roles on other teams are doing things to standout night after night and be an inspiration for how young players should play.

Yep... he is the best player in the bottom 6 by a good margin.

One thing to remember with the expansion draft is that the Avs are going to lose a player regardless. We don't know the trade situations, but there are likely to be cases where trading a player so avoid having to protect them and protect a different player might be worse than just letting that other player go.

Rene Bourque has been light years better than Comeau. Even when he was full time on the bottom lines. The contribution and effort level is not even close between the two.

Soderberg as well, even though he hasn't been good really, he has been better because he doesn't constantly turn the puck over and take penalties. The only thing keeping Martinsen from not being better is Comeau has more goals, and Marty's game has fallen off a bit recently. Other than that he has contributed more to generating momentum, playing hard, and doing good work on the PK.

The only reason Comeau isn't considered worse is because Colborne and Grigo have done next to nothing all year, and Mitchell is just Mitchell.

 

[tigervixxxen]

He is full blown stupid.

And then the reply he got saying that many people are delusional oh the irony

You have to read between the lines, but it seems to be figured out. LeBrun reported the number of NMC that had to be protected for the expansion draft, and that number matched up with Beauch being included. Probably fair to say it applies.

Someone released the list, he's on it. The grey area is the part about having to honor it if he waived to get traded and I guess that's true.

They need the cap space and frankly I don't think Varly will ever be consistent enough to justify that deal. I'm not saying they should dump him for nothing, but if they have to make a conscious choice as to which goalie to protect, they most assuredly will pick Picks, because if they don't I guarantee you Vegas will take him. There's a chance they won't take Varlamov.

What do we need the cap space savings from dumping Varly for? If they can get something for him then yeah move him but when it comes down to it just from a pure giving the Avs the best chance to win perspective, if we even care about that anymore, I still prefer Varly.

There is too much deadweight to clear away within the next year. Yeah, Iggy, Tyutin, Mitchell, etc., will all be off the books next season. But who replaces them? Hopefully Greer, Bigras, and Compher. But if you start getting into shipping out Colborne, Soderberg, Beauchemin, etc., as well...who replaces them? There's nobody else in the prospect pool...so where do you look? Free agency, obviously. But there is one small problem: that is exactly where all of those guys came from in the first place. So do we just replace that deadweight with even more deadweight? My point is that there is too much garbage on this team right now to clear it all away and replace it with non-garbage. It will take this year, and next year too in my opinion, before we have a hope of clearing out all of the deadweight, because 1) nobody is going to want some of this crap, and 2) there's nothing but more crap waiting to replace it right now. It has to be a process, which will require frustrating patience.

This is a good point, there's only so much replacing they can do. This is also why I never like the XYZ salaries could have been added up to equal ROR type stuff because regardless they still need someone to fill every single one of those spots. I also agree Coneau is fine to keep. If someone wants to blow then away with an offer for him, great but otherwise he's fine to stay. Same with Wier.

i don't think they'll go all nuclear on the roster. And they shouldn't. If a core player is traded i guess that's just what's gonna happen, but if they do a full-blown gutting then they shouldn't stop at the roster.

1000%

The other problem is these guys, and the core as a whole, are inconsistent in scoring. Landeskog has been held scoreless in 13 of the 21 games he's played this year. MacKinnon is scoreless in 16 of 31. Duchene is scoreless in 11 of 27. This needs to improve if we want the team to improve. Hell, Duchene and MacKinnon combined only have 3 more points than Connor McDavid.

I could write a whole list of good players with disappointing production. John Tavares and O'Reilly have also combined for one more point than McDavid.

 

[Foppa2118]

Say they do trade one core player, and leave the rest intact. Outside of the remaining core, and the youngsters, who really needs to stick around? They should blow that up IMO. Trading one player isn't going to solve the mental issues with this team. The problem is too deep. It needs to be uprooted more. They should overhaul as many of those non core/youngsters as they can.

That includes Colborne, Comeau, Grigo, Gelinas, Wiercioch, maybe even Soda if they have a decent replacement. Walk away from Mitchell, Tyutin, and Goloubef. Try their best to dump them somewhere and replace them all.

 

[henchman21]

The grey area is the part about having to honor it if he waived to get traded and I guess that's true.

That really isn't grey... that team would have to and any promise Beauch gave wouldn't be binding. Beauch could be a good guy and still waive when the draft came up, but that isn't a given and the risk is too great. The chance to trade Beauch will be next summer after the expansion draft. That doesn't really hurt the Avs right now either. They don't have enough players to worry about protecting, and likely won't be gathering enough to have to worry about it.

 

[the_fan]

I keep saying this, but i believe the core will be fine if the Avs do win the lottery and pick Nolan Patrick, and the way things are going, that's a very good possibility. They're missing ROR, with Patrick they'll replace ROR and then some because i'm pretty sure Patrick will be a better player than ROR in the NHL

Next year they'll have top 6 of Duchene, MacKinnon, Landeskog, Patrick, Rantanen, and whoever, year after they'll add Jost to that mix, and this team will have what they had with Stastny and ROR.

People need to start realizing that Duchene and MacKinnon aren't McDavid and Crosby, they need top players to play with and not try to carry the entire team on their shoulders because they aren't capable of that.

Next off season they need to start getting rid of dead weight, even if they lose this players for nothing, just let them go. Colborne, Comeau, Iginla, Mitchell, McLeod, Beauchemin, Tyutin, all this guys who are just slowing down this team, get rid of them.

It's easier to find 3rd 4th liners in UFA market. The defense obviously still needs a lot of improvement, but that's not easy to do, so hopefully some guys in system will help, like Bigras.

 

[dahrougem2]

RNH depresses me watching him play. Stay far away from him

 

[UncleRisto]

Is Patrick even a player that could slot into the top six in his draft year?

 

[Balthazar]

Is Patrick even a player that could slot into the top six in his draft year?

He doesn't have the ceiling of most other 1OAs...I'd say probably not (see: Dubois).

From TSN:

"the consensus view is Patrick is projected more as a second-line NHL centre and doesn't have the same “wow” factor as McDavid, Eichel and Matthews.
"He's going to be a good, maybe very good, NHL player," one scout said, "but he isn't a dynamic player. His skating isn't bad but he's not dynamic like those others [McDavid, Eichel and Matthews]."

In that same article, they say this about #4:

Maxime Comtois: The Victoriaville left winger is getting some comparisons to last year's top Quebec League prospect, Pierre-Luc Dubois, who went third overall to Columbus. Bearing in mind last year's draft is considered a clear notch above this year's, Comtois has the size, strength, skating ability and heavy shot, which allows him to play both the power and skill game.

So it appears that this draft is not only weaker at the very top but down the list, too (as evidenced by this sentence). I was refuted in another thread for mentioning it.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Patrick will be in the NHL next year, I'm not going to split hairs about what kind of role, that's up to the team.

That's great, cherry pick some quotes. Doesn't matter that some of us follow the draft class on a daily basis.

 

[Gigantor The Goalie]

What do we need the cap space savings from dumping Varly for? If they can get something for him then yeah move him but when it comes down to it just from a pure giving the Avs the best chance to win perspective, if we even care about that anymore, I still prefer Varly.

You are warming my heart.

 

[Frenchy]

Sign Alzner before Kulikov if you're dreaming.

i'm with you on this one , i watched alot of the Panthers and Sabres games and i dont understand the excitement for Kulikov.

 

[the_fan]

It is what it is, this team is keep missing out on drafting top notch players, McDavid, Matthews etc...and they doing it again this year because Patrick isn't McDavid or Matthews, but as long as he's as good or even better than ROR, that's fine and all you can ask for.

 

[spiller19]

I was thinking about the expansion draft today ... this secnario has a few what ifs but if Colorado trades Varly then Soderberg is probably the best player that is exposed(he could be protected too) and Beauch agrees to waive his ntc if Vegas isn't interested in Sodas contract is it realistic to think they would take Beauch as a veteran presence and then trade him at the deadline for more assets?
Probably just wishful thinking on my part