Rumor: AVS Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents & Drouin 2016-17 Part XX

[agentblack]

Im putting the Rags as a darkhorse for Dutchy, one of the leagues best faceoff men could help them out, they got worked in OTT series.

But still have the Isles and CLB as frontrunners.

CAR can be third.

 

[Balthazar]

Right now our #1 priority should be Heiskanen. Jumping from #4 to #3 shouldn't be that expensive, especially since Dallas is all-in apparently. Do what it takes Joe.

Getting Heiskanen would open up so many oppurtunities. We would no longer look exclusively for a young LHD and would be able to trade Duchene for forward prospects and picks, which is so much easier. Or trading him straight for Faulk, which would then open up other opportunities like trading one of EJ/Barrie for a forward. So much stuff.

Example:

- Draft Heiskanen
- Trade Duchene for Faulk
- Trade EJ for Drouin

New team, new core, new hope.

Now, on the other hand, if we suck and miss out on Heiskanen we are back to square one and have to resume the Duchene for Hanifin/Sergachev talks. Sigh.

 

[McMetal]

There's no guarantee that they're going to draft Heiskanen. The aggressive move to target Bishop signals that they will likely look to fix their D through trades and free agency immediately. In that scenario, they could very well look to Vilardi or Glass as an eventual 2C replacement, because they will likely be faster to develop into what they need.

Besides, you've seen all the skepticism about him on here. Who's to say that they don't share that? This draft is weird, with very little consensus on anything.

 

[agentblack]

There's no guarantee that they're going to draft Heiskanen. The aggressive move to target Bishop signals that they will likely look to fix their D through trades and free agency immediately. In that scenario, they could very well look to Vilardi or Glass as an eventual 2C replacement, because they will likely be faster to develop into what they need.

Besides, you've seen all the skepticism about him on here. Who's to say that they don't share that? This draft is weird, with very little consensus on anything.

I could totally see the Avs passing on him for like Rasmussen.

 

[McMetal]

I could totally see the Avs passing on him for like Rasmussen.

Sadly, we will not know until Sakic announces the pick. There's too much volatility in the draft and too much secrecy in the org.

 

[tigervixxxen]

I wouldn't count on it either. Even getting past they wouldn't even take a D at 10 and that they'd have to do it even higher now, the fact that Heiskanen isn't typically their type. They haven't drafted a smaller puck mover since Butcher and other than Lindholm haven't drafted any D smaller than 6'1 since Butcher. Their preferred D last year was Sergachev, not Juolevi. I know this is the #youngerfaster Avalanche but it's the same org making decisions and they tend to go with either bigger two way guys who lean more to goal scoring or physical shut down D. Drafting a small puck mover at 32 would be a step for them. Just saying, not trying to kill the dream but this is the Avs here.

I know it's going to come up that it was said before they don't draft Russians, Euros, college guys, smaller forwards and it all happened. I think their horizons are broadening but it's still the same org and are predisposed to certain types. Maybe they aren't as restrictive to where the players come from, Mikko coming from Finland and having success surely encourages that. But this is the baby step org. It's the same ne that spent a top 100 pick on Josh Anderson with multiple puck movers on the board who went just behind him.

 

[Balthazar]

There's no guarantee that they're going to draft Heiskanen.

MY fear of us not getting Heiskanen:

- 50% Dallas picking him under our nose
- 50% AVS picking someone else even if he's available

We still don't know if the AVS plan to fix the D mainly through the draft or through trades/UFAs. Ever since Sakic got there he tried to patch D holes via UFA's so I'm not convinced that this org believes in drafting high end D.

 

[Nalens Oga]

Pracey is no longer our scouting director and for as incompetent and pathetic as Sakic is, I'd like to think that his lack of being proactive comes in useful here because hopefully he just defers the decision completely to Hepple who then goes for Heiskanen assuming the scouting staff actually spent enough time scouting him and he's available.

And I'm not as sold on Heiskanen as some of you but hopefully it makes a Duchene trade easier if he doesn't have to be forcibly moved for a dman he can no longer acquire and the deal can just be made for the best futures package possible.

 

[PAZ]

Honestly, I think Heiskanen is getting way overhyped. If Heiskanen reaches his ceiling, he'll immensely help the Avs moving forward. However, it's still way harder to determine a defenseman's potential though, and I don't think the difference between Heiskanen or Vilardi is that big unless Heiskanen reaches his ceiling.

I agree he helps fill a large team need, but if we miss out it's not going back to square one. There's a pretty high chance the Avs will be in the lottery realm next year too in a stronger draft where we can fill that gap. Hell, even if we draft Heiskanen I wouldn't be surprised if we still ended up trading Duchene for Hanifin/Serg.

 

[McMetal]

I wouldn't count on it either. Even getting past they wouldn't even take a D at 10 and that they'd have to do it even higher now, the fact that Heiskanen isn't typically their type. They haven't drafted a smaller puck mover since Butcher and other than Lindholm haven't drafted any D smaller than 6'1 since Butcher. Their preferred D last year was Sergachev, not Juolevi. I know this is the #youngerfaster Avalanche but it's the same org making decisions and they tend to go with either bigger two way guys who lean more to goal scoring or physical shut down D. Drafting a small puck mover at 32 would be a step for them. Just saying, not trying to kill the dream but this is the Avs here.

To be fair, last year at 10 Sergachev and Juolevi were gone, Chychrun had plummeted on everybody's lists, and McAvoy and Fabbro were generally considered lesser prospects than Jost and Brown under the "BPA" doctrine. Hindsight changes things. Similarly, the year before, Provorov and Werenski went early. Zboril and Chabot were clearly not BPA with Rantanen on the board. You can only go back to 2013 where they really blew a chance to take a high end D under Sakic's tenure.

 

[raistlin76]

To be fair, last year at 10 Sergachev and Juolevi were gone, Chychrun had plummeted on everybody's lists, and McAvoy and Fabbro were generally considered lesser prospects than Jost and Brown under the "BPA" doctrine. Hindsight changes things. Similarly, the year before, Provorov and Werenski went early. Zboril and Chabot were clearly not BPA with Rantanen on the board. You can only go back to 2013 where they really blew a chance to take a high end D under Sakic's tenure.

Yes you're right, but I don't think we made bad choice in 2013 as MacK could still be franchise No. 1 center. I've just checked 2014 draft because I thought that we could draft d-man here. We really couldn't but we could have new Milan Hejduk in Pastrnak. Unfortunately Roy (I think it was his choice) wanted Bleackley instead

 

[tigervixxxen]

To be fair, last year at 10 Sergachev and Juolevi were gone, Chychrun had plummeted on everybody's lists, and McAvoy and Fabbro were generally considered lesser prospects than Jost and Brown under the "BPA" doctrine. Hindsight changes things. Similarly, the year before, Provorov and Werenski went early. Zboril and Chabot were clearly not BPA with Rantanen on the board. You can only go back to 2013 where they really blew a chance to take a high end D under Sakic's tenure.

It's not just fanwanking to say Sergachev was the top D on their board

Yes you're right, but I don't think we made bad choice in 2013 as MacK could still be franchise No. 1 center. I've just checked 2014 draft because I thought that we could draft d-man here. We really couldn't but we could have new Milan Hejduk in Pastrnak. Unfortunately Roy (I think it was his choice) wanted Bleackley instead

He was not Roy's choice, that was the beginning of several issues.

But anyway, I'm not trying to go down a dusty road flogging all previous draft choices. I know there's a first time for everything but some of y'all are convinced of who the Avs are targeting and I wouldn't go that far.

 

[Avs71]

Has it been talked about that Eklund heard from two sources that Sakic could be stepping down? Odd thing to say given Kroenke just said it's not happening. Who knows, maybe there is still a chance.

 

[Sea Eagles]

Has it been talked about that Eklund heard from two sources that Sakic could be stepping down? Odd thing to say given Kroenke just said it's not happening. Who knows, maybe there is still a chance.

I just want a proactive GM, who plays on the front foot, and who changes the culture around the value of fans.

If the team totally sucks, yet is trying their hearts out, but makes you feel part of the community, that's good enough for me.

Quite frankly (and I'm positive about most things), I feel Joe Sakic has played a major part in where we are right now.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

Right now our #1 priority should be Heiskanen. Jumping from #4 to #3 shouldn't be that expensive, especially since Dallas is all-in apparently. Do what it takes Joe.

Getting Heiskanen would open up so many oppurtunities. We would no longer look exclusively for a young LHD and would be able to trade Duchene for forward prospects and picks, which is so much easier. Or trading him straight for Faulk, which would then open up other opportunities like trading one of EJ/Barrie for a forward. So much stuff.

Example:

- Draft Heiskanen
- Trade Duchene for Faulk
- Trade EJ for Drouin

New team, new core, new hope.

Now, on the other hand, if we suck and miss out on Heiskanen we are back to square one and have to resume the Duchene for Hanifin/Sergachev talks. Sigh.

Peoplee can't even agree on Heiskanen's potential. The guy shouldn't change our plan for flipping Duchene for a D. If we pick Heiskanen that just affords us the opportunity to package Bigras with Duchene for a stud like Hanifin.

 

[EdAVSfan]

The goal is to fix the defense while holding onto 1st rounders, Mack, rantanen and Jost.

Still waiting for the day when defense becomes a strength in this organization. 15 years running now...

 

[ABasin]

The goal is to fix the defense while holding onto 1st rounders, Mack, rantanen and Jost.

Still waiting for the day when defense becomes a strength in this organization. 15 years running now...

They've got to start regularly using 1st and/or 2nd round picks on defensemen.

They also need to learn how to develop defensive prospects. We've been waiting for longer than 15 years for the Avs to draft and develop a proper top 4 defensive/two-way defenseman. They've never once done it in their 22 years in Denver. Literally not once.

I keep hoping that Barrie ups his defensive game to a reasonable top 4 level, but it hasn't happened yet.

 

[Mighty Makar]

If we draft Heiskanen, I still hope Duchene is traded for help on the blueline. Sakic said that we won't be players in free agency, so expect some trades.

 

[Avs71]

One of the problems with fixing the defence is the Avs have already committed to the following next season:

Zadorov*-EJ
Beauchemin-Barrie
Barberio*-Mironov*
Bigras-Lindholm

*Waiting to be signed/re-signed/not taken in the expansion draft.

I think that makes it more obvious than ever that Beauchemin needs to be bought out, or traded with max retention right after the expansion draft. Something like Beauchemin (50% retained) to San Jose for Joel Ward.

Obviously a lot of those defencemen aren't great, but I think the Avs need to give Bigras/Mironov/Lindholm an extended look before writing them off as being possible short-long term players. Barberio is fine for being the extra defenceman, and I'm sure two of the three young guys will start in the AHL, but I can't see the Avs bringing in more than one defenceman (probably through a Duchene trade).

 

[henchman21]

To be fair, last year at 10 Sergachev and Juolevi were gone, Chychrun had plummeted on everybody's lists, and McAvoy and Fabbro were generally considered lesser prospects than Jost and Brown under the "BPA" doctrine. Hindsight changes things. Similarly, the year before, Provorov and Werenski went early. Zboril and Chabot were clearly not BPA with Rantanen on the board. You can only go back to 2013 where they really blew a chance to take a high end D under Sakic's tenure.

I think that points to a scouting problem. It is easy to justify saying BPA, but the Avs really haven't done a good job scouting defensemen.

IMO them not taking Chychrun or McAvoy is crazy to me. Those two were my #1 and #3 defensemen on the board and both deserved top 10 status (Bob's rankings still had 3 of 10 scouts with Chychrun in the top 10 and 2 of 10 with McAvoy). It was clear as day to me those defensemen were great prospects, and I don't get paid to scout.

 

[xbestboybandever]

I think that points to a scouting problem. It is easy to justify saying BPA, but the Avs really haven't done a good job scouting defensemen.

IMO them not taking Chychrun or McAvoy is crazy to me. Those two were my #1 and #3 defensemen on the board and both deserved top 10 status (Bob's rankings still had 3 of 10 scouts with Chychrun in the top 10 and 2 of 10 with McAvoy). It was clear as day to me those defensemen were great prospects, and I don't get paid to scout.

Or, if the organization had been shopping Duchene prior, perhaps they knew that they needed to try and get another high end center prospect to fill the hole that potentially dealing Duchene would leave. Also, let's not overlook the fact that we have drafted D prospects, three of which are consistently brought up moving forward (Meloche, Bigras, Mironov), plus one that has cracked the NHL roster (Lindholm) and the last "high end, can't miss D-man" (Siemans) or the one that was drafted in the later rounds that will not be mentioned because of a trade (*cough*Wood*cough*). The last two drafts have been very balanced in addressing roster needs as a whole, not just the defense.

 

[Epic Neal Time]

I think building around a core of MacKinnon, Jost, Barrie, Rantanen, Landeskog, and Vilardi/Heiskanen is a good start. Just need help on the back end.

 

[henchman21]

Or, if the organization had been shopping Duchene prior, perhaps they knew that they needed to try and get another high end center prospect to fill the hole that potentially dealing Duchene would leave. Also, let's not overlook the fact that we have drafted D prospects, three of which are consistently brought up moving forward (Meloche, Bigras, Mironov), plus one that has cracked the NHL roster (Lindholm) and the last "high end, can't miss D-man" (Siemans) or the one that was drafted in the later rounds that will not be mentioned because of a trade (*cough*Wood*cough*). The last two drafts have been very balanced in addressing roster needs as a whole, not just the defense.

Siemens was never a can't miss type. There was always risk to him.

Duchene had been being shopped, but it isn't like the Avs were completely without center prospects. They dabbled with Rants there, Compher, Beaudin... plus Soda was already here coming off a 51 point season, Grigo got extended looks at center (honestly where he should be if he is ever to stick), and Duchene played a lot of that season.

The Avs just don't draft D high, and their scouting of defensemen is far from ideal. I don't think that is a controversial statement. I like a number of the prospects, but that doesn't mean the Avs are suddenly good at picking D. IMO them having Sergachev the top D on their list last year is not a good thing, not a good thing at all.

 

[ABasin]

I think that points to a scouting problem. It is easy to justify saying BPA, but the Avs really haven't done a good job scouting defensemen.

...or developing them.

Though I can't help but wonder if it's poor scouting, or simply a poor (or outdated, if you prefer) philosophy? The organization has always had the mantra of drafting/developing scoring forwards, and then trading for goaltending and defense. This has been their MO, literally since the franchise came to Denver.

 

[henchman21]

...or developing them.

Though I can't help but wonder if it's poor scouting, or simply a poor (or outdated, if you prefer) philosophy? The organization has always had the mantra of drafting/developing scoring forwards, and then trading for goaltending and defense. This has been their MO, literally since the franchise came to Denver.

I do think that has a lot to do with it.