Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 2017-18 Part IV

[Balthazar]

Dreger was at it today again on Buffalo's radio:

"It's the same company that represents Matt Duchene that represents David Pastrnak," said NHL Insider Darren Dreger during a Friday morning appearance on Buffalo's WGR 550

"I mean how awkward is that going to be if he has to go back to the Avalanche dressing room, back to that camp, face the media, and all of those things. "

"I think it's now shifted into a front-burner situation and there'll be a some heat on Sakic and the Avs to get this done in the next 14 days."

Full of interesting quotes here:

Dreger | Duchene trade talks shifting into front-burner mode

 

[Pokecheque]

They were that bad because all of those 9 players that were let go, did not even try to win and gave up. I am expecting Jost, Compher, healthy Z and others to make a lineup this season because I know that 1 mistake by Beuch or a few horrible penalties or mistakes by Comeau costed points for this team last season. One bad apple can influence other 4 players on the line. We can only win games if we play sound hockey as a unit of 5. Pickard also left us hanging with some of the easy goals that should have been easy saves by NHL standard goaltender.
Ask anyone, but on a paper this team looks much better then they performed last season. We just have to clear our team from bad apples and replace them with fast, young and most importantly hard working type players, we already have a few exciting prospects coming up this season. It should be fun watching Mironov, Compher, Jost, Kerfoot, Yakupov, and others in our roster that would probably try to give their best each night should be much better then playing with players that just looked like they quit playing in the middle of the game.

Won't argue any of that, I'm just saying even a MASSIVE improvement will still see them near the bottom of the standings. For them to turn it around and possibly make the playoffs would be almost as monumental as last season was monumentally bad.

The one thing I'll say is that, yes, this team did kick a LOT of dead weight to the curb, and thank the Hockey Gods they did, but they are now relying on a whole lotta youth. In short, a whole lot will have to go right if this team is to have a truly successful season.

It just comes down to the fact that they set the damned bar so unimaginably low that there's almost no way they can disappoint this season. Individual players might, but not the team or organization as a whole.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Seriously, is Darren Dreger trying to win a bet or something? Whats his deal with this whole Duchene thing. Dreger acting like he should be at the table with Sakic when negotiations are happening. **** off you dweeb and go back to reporting on what Mitch Marner had for breakfast.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Seriously, is Darren Dreger trying to win a bet or something? Whats his deal with this whole Duchene thing. Dreger acting like he should be at the table with Sakic when negotiations are happening. **** off you dweeb and go back to reporting on what Mitch Marner had for breakfast.

It's weekly, I have no idea.

 

[Balthazar]

Seriously, is Darren Dreger trying to win a bet or something? Whats his deal with this whole Duchene thing. Dreger acting like he should be at the table with Sakic when negotiations are happening. **** off you dweeb and go back to reporting on what Mitch Marner had for breakfast.

It's weekly, I have no idea.

IMO he's Brisson's mouthpiece, that's what's happening. I'm pretty damn sure he's close to the Duchene/Pastrnak camp and when he says stuff like "he doesnt want to leave the Colorado Avalanche with crashing waves and all kinds of bad blood" you need to read between the lines. It's Dreger doing the dirty work and putting pressure for them. If nothing's happening I wont be surprised if the Duchene camp asks for a trade publicly but they know it will look bad for both Matt and the AVS (and especially the AVS).

Hence this:

"We're talking about CAA Sports here. They try to manage things as quietly as they can, as efficiently as they can, and as respectful of the team, the organization as they can."

 

[Pokecheque]

It's not just Dreger, it's everyone. We're at just about the dullest time of the offseason and there's simply nothing else going on. Any time the Avalanche come up on NHL Network Radio the Duchene drama almost always gets referenced. Just about everyone is flabbergasted they've let it go on this long.

 

[InjuredChoker]

It's not just Dreger, it's everyone. We're at just about the dullest time of the offseason and there's simply nothing else going on. Any time the Avalanche come up on NHL Network Radio the Duchene drama almost always gets referenced. Just about everyone is flabbergasted they've let it go on this long.

the difference is that dreger seems to take it personally that duchene hasn't been traded.

 

[Goulet17]

Dreger is essentially on the level of Eklund. He is not in the same tier as McKenzie, Friedman, or LeBrun IMO. CAA and Brisson are not going to use Dreger as their mouth piece to put pressure on Sakic, it has never been Brisson's style. He would simply deal with Sakic directly, who he has had a great relationship with in the past.

People have built up the time when Duchene reports and has to answer reporter questions mid-month (god forbid). If any media personality or other team thinks Sakic or the Avs will cave and take any deal on the table for Duchene, they have not been paying attention for the past several years to how the Avs operate, for better or worse.

Duchene will be here and he will handle it professionally and play hard, because it is in his own self-interest to do so.

 

[ABasin]

They were that bad because all of those 9 players that were let go,

Can't simply put last season's disaster on those (mostly) depth players. That's too simplistic. Barrie, Landeskog, and Duchene all had their worst offensive seasons since they became NHL regulars. Same with Soderberg and Colborne.

And all of those guys are still here.

 

[Ceremony]

Can't wait for Matthew's career year in mountain stripes to put all of this behind him.

 

[AnimalMother73]

If the Avs FO point of view on the Z contract is "you don't score any goals" - then there's really no helping that kind of stupid.

I don't think they are but it's difficult to believe offensive productivity doesn't doesn't have some weight, even if smaller for players like Z, in contract negotiations.

 

[Goulet17]

Can't simply put last season's disaster on those (mostly) depth players. That's too simplistic. Barrie, Landeskog, and Duchene all had their worst offensive seasons since they became NHL regulars. Same with Soderberg and Colborne.

And all of those guys are still here.

I know what you are saying, but how likely is it that all of those players mentioned have another year like they just did?

Was it just a case that virtually all of the players on the Avs simultaneously started a decline last season? It seems unlikely in my mind, and I think you more than likely will see a bounce back performance from many of those players. I just don't see how it makes sense otherwise.

Now, even if all of those players do improve, I am not saying the Avs will compete for the playoffs, but they should be improved. It is difficult not to improve over a 48 point season.

We could see a situation in which on a season to season basis, we see one of the largest percentage increases in points by a team, and yet that team will still be the worst in the league.

The wildcard in all of this is that the simultaneous decline with player production was not a statistical anomaly, but a result of coaching and the match of the system with the players on hand. I figure that will be revealed early on within the first quarter of the season.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I know what you are saying, but how likely is it that all of those players mentioned have another year like they just did?

Was it just a case that virtually all of the players on the Avs simultaneously started a decline last season? It seems unlikely in my mind, and I think you more than likely will see a bounce back performance from many of those players. I just don't see how it makes sense otherwise.

Now, even if all of those players do improve, I am not saying the Avs will compete for the playoffs, but they should be improved. It is difficult not to improve over a 48 point season.

We could see a situation in which on a season to season basis, we see one of the largest percentage increases in points by a team, and yet that team will still be the worst in the league.

The wildcard in all of this is that the simultaneous decline with player production was not a statistical anomaly, but a result of coaching and the match of the system with the players on hand. I figure that will be revealed early on within the first quarter of the season.

The Avs will definitely improve from the 48 point season we just had. I don't think you'll find a single person here who expects them to regress again this season.


But the thing is, is going from a 48 point last place team to a ~60 point 29th or 30th place team really an improvement on last year?


IMO I don't think it is. We'd still be one of the worst teams in the league of not the worst. Last season was just an extreme version of what's going to happen this year.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

Dreger is essentially on the level of Eklund. He is not in the same tier as McKenzie, Friedman, or LeBrun IMO. CAA and Brisson are not going to use Dreger as their mouth piece to put pressure on Sakic, it has never been Brisson's style. He would simply deal with Sakic directly, who he has had a great relationship with in the past.

People have built up the time when Duchene reports and has to answer reporter questions mid-month (god forbid). If any media personality or other team thinks Sakic or the Avs will cave and take any deal on the table for Duchene, they have not been paying attention for the past several years to how the Avs operate, for better or worse.

Duchene will be here and he will handle it professionally and play hard, because it is in his own self-interest to do so.

1) It's pretty well known Brisson and Sakic got into on the draft floor.

2) Duchene didn't handle it professionally last year.

 

[Goulet17]

1) It's pretty well known Brisson and Sakic got into on the draft floor.

2) Duchene didn't handle it professionally last year.

(1) Really, okay, it would be extremely out of character for both men IMO, at least how they normally conduct themselves in public. In any event, I saw who did some of the reporting on that and those particular individuals had a vested interest in that scenario being true IMO, which makes me skeptical to say the least.

(2) Sakic handled it unprofessionally? Okay, I believe that people are going to view the situation in a manner that supports their already formed opinion. Let's just say that I do not agree fully. I believe that some pieces probably could have been handled better, but like everything in life, things are seldom that clear cut.

 

[Goulet17]

The Avs will definitely improve from the 48 point season we just had. I don't think you'll find a single person here who expects them to regress again this season.


But the thing is, is going from a 48 point last place team to a ~60 point 29th or 30th place team really an improvement on last year?


IMO I don't think it is. We'd still be one of the worst teams in the league of not the worst. Last season was just an extreme version of what's going to happen this year.

What exactly were the Avs supposed to do to change the situation for the upcoming season? Would a Matt Duchene trade transform this team into a playoff contender? I don't believe that any quick fixes exist or have existed to accelerate the rebuild, it will be a long one.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

What exactly were the Avs supposed to do to change the situation for the upcoming season? Would a Matt Duchene trade transform this team into a playoff contender? I don't believe that any quick fixes exist or have existed to accelerate the rebuild, it will be a long one.

Never said anything could be done.


I want the Avs to be terrible again. It's the best possible outcome for this team. A chance to draft a potential franchise Dman or franchise winger is what this team needs way more than a 80 point season and another pick just outside the zone where elite talent is available.

 

[chet1926]

1) It's pretty well known Brisson and Sakic got into on the draft floor.

2) Duchene didn't handle it professionally last year.

Proof? Just because some beat writer for another said this doesn't make it fact and that's the only place I've ever heard that. So either offer up some real source to prove that Sakic and Brisson "got into it" at the draft or stop making up stuff to fit your narrative.

From all I know Sakic's never said anything to this nature, Brisson has never said anything, Duchene said anything, no Avs reporters/beat writers nothing.

Friedman said something to the extent that he thinks Brisson is frustrated with Sakic but that doesn't mean they got into it at the draft.

 

[Balthazar]

Duchene will be here and he will handle it professionally and play hard, because it is in his own self-interest to do so.

Yes, because that's what our mentally strong Matt Duchene does. Go straight through controversy, ignore everything and score plenty of goals.

On what planet are you living on?

Proof? Just because some beat writer for another said this doesn't make it fact and that's the only place I've ever heard that. So either offer up some real source to prove that Sakic and Brisson "got into it" at the draft or stop making up stuff to fit your narrative.

I don't know about "going at it" but Brisson was actively switching between Sakic and Poile/Francis and was doing all kinds of stuff on the draft floor that you usually don't see. He was very active and was most likely not trying to sell one of his new prospect.

Source: Watched the draft and heard the insiders talk about it

 

[ABasin]

I know what you are saying, but how likely is it that all of those players mentioned have another year like they just did?

Was it just a case that virtually all of the players on the Avs simultaneously started a decline last season? It seems unlikely in my mind, and I think you more than likely will see a bounce back performance from many of those players. I just don't see how it makes sense otherwise.

Now, even if all of those players do improve, I am not saying the Avs will compete for the playoffs, but they should be improved. It is difficult not to improve over a 48 point season.

I don't disagree with any of that. I was disputing the statement that "the Avs were that bad because all of those 9 players that were let go". Those slugs were part of the problem for sure, but Barrie/Landeskog/Duchene/Soderberg were certainly part of the problem as well. The supporting players didn't play well, and most of the top line players didn't play well either.

I don't buy for a second that the reason the top players stunk is wholly because the bottom/depth players stunk. Bottom line is they pretty much all stunk.

 

[Balthazar]

What exactly were the Avs supposed to do to change the situation for the upcoming season? Would a Matt Duchene trade transform this team into a playoff contender? I don't believe that any quick fixes exist or have existed to accelerate the rebuild, it will be a long one.

It's not about winning games next year it's about culture change. If you start the year with a guy that everyone in the locker room (including the coach) know he doesn't want to be here anymore it's pretty damn bad for the general atmosphere. He's not some 4th liner chump that everyone can ignore, he's a major core piece and it will be a distraction.

They need to start the year with people that want things to change, players who believe in the future of this team and are here to contribute to it.

 

[Goulet17]

It's not about winning games next year it's about culture change. If you start the year with a guy that everyone in the locker room (including the coach) know he doesn't want to be here anymore it's pretty damn bad for the general atmosphere. He's not some 4th liner chump that everyone can ignore, he's a major core piece and it will be a distraction.

They need to start the year with people that want things to change, players who believe in the future of this team and are here to contribute to it.

Fair enough, I don't disagree with that viewpoint. I suppose where I would not agree is if you carry that out and say that the Avs should just trade Duchene for whatever they can get (not that you are saying that in particular). I don't think any organization can effectively sell their more valuable assets off at a steep discount and hope to be competitive down the road.

I never expected an under 25 NHL proven defenseman in return for Duchene, who only has two years left to UFA.

I would do a futures trade, but not with late first round draft picks as the centerpiece. I think Sakic has to get an NHL ready or close to NHL ready blue chip prospect in return, preferable a LHD prospect, but any blue chip prospect would do in my mind.

 

[Goulet17]

I don't disagree with any of that. I was disputing the statement that "the Avs were that bad because all of those 9 players that were let go". Those slugs were part of the problem for sure, but Barrie/Landeskog/Duchene/Soderberg were certainly part of the problem as well. The supporting players didn't play well, and most of the top line players didn't play well either.

I don't buy for a second that the reason the top players stunk is wholly because the bottom/depth players stunk. Bottom line is they pretty much all stunk.

Sure, I understand. The "core" players have to receive some degree of blame. I just have my doubts that suddenly Duchene, Barrie, and Landeskog have necessarily peaked and will continue to decline.

 

[Goulet17]

Yes, because that's what our mentally strong Matt Duchene does. Go straight through controversy, ignore everything and score plenty of goals.

On what planet are you living on?

I tend to operate on the assumption that players, as they do in life, will ultimately act in their own self-interests. I think that is a fairly reasonable assumption to make based on my observations in life. In Matt Duchene's case, that means playing and producing at a higher level.

You may be correct that Duchene lacks the mental fortitude to battle through it and produce. It is a risk, but in some respects it is a calculated risk that I can see the Avs making.

 

[agentblack]

Duchene's own personal success and the Avs desire to get the best return on a potential deal are objectives that mesh
It would be horrible for both parties if he does poorly
If he's still here in two weeks