Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 2017-18 Part III

[bohlmeister]

If Butcher signed with the Avs a lot of you wouldn't be so dismissive. Just saying.

No reason to call a kid down for not signing with the biggest group of morons in the NHL. Great move Will. Best of luck to you.

 

[henchman21]

If Butcher signed with the Avs a lot of you wouldn't be so dismissive. Just saying.

No reason to call a kid down for not signing with the biggest group of morons in the NHL. Great move Will. Best of luck to you.

There have been plenty doubting him. He's a B prospect at best.

 

[Metallo]

It depends on Varly also being exceptional as well as healthy. There is still two bottom pairing slots, and relying on Jost, Compher, and Zadorov that heavily. Then you have Bednar and the lack of goal scoring ability on the roster.

I think it's as close to tanking as this organization is prepared to get. You also have to remember that the players they've asked for are not exactly experienced lock top four guys either. Hanifin hasn't played consistently at a top four level yet. Guys like Chabot and Carlo? They turned down Hamonic apparently, and that is the only guy we know for a fact would give them that level of play. They also made no attempt to grab a second pairing #4 guy when they were flying everywhere for peanuts around the expansion draft.

Even if the team improves immensely on defense, and goal tending, we still have to score enough. I just don't see higher than maybe a #25ish finish even with that position filled.

Their situation is a bit different IMO because they are rebuilding on top of a failed rebuild. So expecting the same level of sell off that would normally kick off a rebuild isn't realistic IMO. No one really seems to want to use any other logic than spouting about how little was done. We can argue all day about how we got here, but I just didn't see a lot of moves this franchise was going to make this off-season to bring the roster back to respectability for the 17-18 season since the franchises future rests on the establishment of a whole new under 23 generation of players.

Good post.

I was the first around here to predict the bottom finish last year, so let me dispell any notion of a out of the bottom 10 finish. As it stands this team will finish bottom-3.

 

[cgf]

There have been plenty doubting him. He's a B prospect at best.

I defended his potential after his freshman year, but his skating never made the progress I hoped. There have been a lot of us doubting him since we saw that.

 

[Pokecheque]

I just don't get why they are not viewed similar to a Toronto or Buffalo going into the seasons they drafted Eichel and Matthews? I guess I should say I understand the MSM does not care about a small market team, unless it's negative of course. So why is that, because Sakic hasn't said they are rebuilding directly to Dreger?

If you let actions speak, they are tanking this year about as hard as Buffalo did going after McDavid.

They have three of their top six D slots left wide open to a collection of prospects, and a bottom pairing defender, as well as two of their top three center positions looking to be left to two rookies.

Does it get more obvious than that? I understand you can't tank for a specific player, but they are tanking for another top 4 pick fairly obviously IMO. Those teams were not talked about like they failed to do this massive shakeup that was supposed to change their fortunes in a positive way for the following season. I'm kind of sick of hearing about how Sakic should have whateverthefuk to be honest. Especially pertaining to the team and the 2017-18 season. He cleared the trash heap that he could without having to pay futures to get rid of a contract. I sure as hell don't want him paying futures to get rid of Soderberg or Colborne.

Well as others have said it really looks like he's preparing for a Duchene deal with a d-man coming the other way. Right now the team is almost overloaded with forwards and only has three blueliners under contract on the NHL team. Assuming Zads gets signed, it's four. That means they either fill in the gaps with youth or they net one in exchange for #9. Personally, I'd rather they stick with what they have and do whatever they gotta do to rid themselves of Mr. Carl Soderberg (I know, I know) but that's just MHO.

I don't think it's a tank job. And no way is it anything like Buffalo's dive for McDavid--not sure I've ever seen a team strip itself bare as much as they did. They dealt their goalie AND backup goalie FFS!

So then there's the question...what is this then? I think they're just committing to the youth, sink or swim. Their attempts to fill the gaps with veteran talent failed spectacularly, and they know it. They're done doing that. I think it'll still be a rough year, but nowhere near as bad as watching last year's debacle. Whether they can actually BUILD off whatever happens in 2017-18 remains to be seen.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Well as others have said it really looks like he's preparing for a Duchene deal with a d-man coming the other way. Right now the team is almost overloaded with forwards and only has three blueliners under contract on the NHL team. Assuming Zads gets signed, it's four. That means they either fill in the gaps with youth or they net one in exchange for #9. Personally, I'd rather they stick with what they have and do whatever they gotta do to rid themselves of Mr. Carl Soderberg (I know, I know) but that's just MHO.

I don't think it's a tank job. And no way is it anything like Buffalo's dive for McDavid--not sure I've ever seen a team strip itself bare as much as they did. They dealt their goalie AND backup goalie FFS!

So then there's the question...what is this then? I think they're just committing to the youth, sink or swim. Their attempts to fill the gaps with veteran talent failed spectacularly, and they know it. They're done doing that. I think it'll still be a rough year, but nowhere near as bad as watching last year's debacle. Whether they can actually BUILD off whatever happens in 2017-18 remains to be seen.

The point is that most from an outside perspective keep using the narrative that there was all of these phantom moves that were not made that were apparently needed. I seen someone else write about how much of a shakeup Dallas did as a positive. It's so much different obviously.

No one mentions as you did there at the end that they've simply chosen to live or die by the youth as a lot of other rebuilding teams have done in the past. Everything in between that and what I posted about tanking is up for debate, but it still falls into not banking on the team to be competitive, and another high pick.

Edit: I feel like I should add that what I'm expecting is still a losing season, but something much more entertaining to watch the way Toronto and Carolina have been at times. Hard cores like us can survive on watching younger players. I just don't see why a commitment to youth is dismissed other than simply wanting to jump on the poop wagon.

 

[ABasin]

There have been plenty doubting him. He's a B prospect at best.

OK, fine.

But imagine for a moment if that doesn't turn out to be the case.

 

[Ace]

Well as others have said it really looks like he's preparing for a Duchene deal with a d-man coming the other way. Right now the team is almost overloaded with forwards and only has three blueliners under contract on the NHL team. Assuming Zads gets signed, it's four. That means they either fill in the gaps with youth or they net one in exchange for #9. Personally, I'd rather they stick with what they have and do whatever they gotta do to rid themselves of Mr. Carl Soderberg (I know, I know) but that's just MHO.

I don't think it's a tank job. And no way is it anything like Buffalo's dive for McDavid--not sure I've ever seen a team strip itself bare as much as they did. They dealt their goalie AND backup goalie FFS!

So then there's the question...what is this then? I think they're just committing to the youth, sink or swim. Their attempts to fill the gaps with veteran talent failed spectacularly, and they know it. They're done doing that. I think it'll still be a rough year, but nowhere near as bad as watching last year's debacle. Whether they can actually BUILD off whatever happens in 2017-18 remains to be seen.

Both of those goalies were UFAs they didn't sign and they brought back goalies in return, one who performed better than both...and the other is back in the organization now. And they were in last place when they moved them...at the deadline. Is moving UFAs at the deadline when you are out something they invented? These amazing goalies who had them in last place already.

Toronto traded PHIL KESSEL and Phaneuf for peanuts and a combined double digits of contract left.

There's a world of difference. Buffalo moved UFAs...it just timed out that Pominville, Vanek and Miller were all up at the time the core was clearly needing to be replaced. Were they supposed to keep them and stay in 9th place forever?

Toronto moved all stars with term.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

OK, fine.

But imagine for a moment if that doesn't turn out to be the case.

Who cares.


Even if he does end up doing well with another team, that shouldn't be something we care about.


What matters is he's a very average prospect right now with a pretty significant skating issue. We're not losing anything much right now. What happens after he joins another team should have literally 0 impact on the Avs.


Just like how the success/fail of Mike Rielly, Jimmy Vesey, etc. etc. had absolutely no impact on those teams they left either.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

The guy's skating isn't nearly as bad as you guys make it out to be. Mainly just doesn't have the top end speed.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

The guy's skating isn't nearly as bad as you guys make it out to be. Mainly just doesn't have the top end speed.

It's certainly not good.

And for a guy who also has size issues and actual defending issues, not being at least a great skater to make up for those issues(One of which he can't fix) is just not a good combination at all.


How many small, offensive Dmen who aren't good skaters are in the NHL? The answer is very close to Zero.

 

[Skip2myBordyloo]

I think best case scenario for Butcher is Liles in Carolina.

 

[McMetal]

The guy's skating isn't nearly as bad as you guys make it out to be. Mainly just doesn't have the top end speed.

There's an exponential curve for defensemen where the smaller you are, the better your skating needs to be to make up for it. His skating would probably be fine if he was 6'3, but since he can't use his size, he needs skating to be far enough above average to make up for it.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

He is quick and agile. He is a fine skater, even for his size, in both the Dzone and Ozone. It's rushing the puck up the ice where his skating lacks.

 

[Pokecheque]

I want to say Ian White was a blueliner with size AND speed issues who made it for a while in the National Hockey League. He never struck me as a speedster but maybe he was...?

Come to think of it, was Liles really that fast? He wasn't Darcy Tucker but I feel like Tyson Barrie is a lot faster than JML was in his prime and even Barrie isn't considered one of the better-skating puckmovers in the league.

 

[Pokecheque]

I'm actually hoping some talks heat up between Sakic and Benning. I was initially opposed to a trade centered around Duchene and Tanev, but to be honest that would be a HUGE get, and the Avs only lose a year of age there in the deal. And that might not be that bad if one thinks Duchene is only gonna get more injury prone as time wears on.

I'm sure though that there would be more involved that might make it unpalatable though, but Tanev would be the kind of d-man the Avs haven't had in a long, long, LONG time. Certainly not flashy but one of the best stay-at-home guys in the league right now.

Just a thought. Feel free to tear it up at your leisure.

 

[McMetal]

I'm actually hoping some talks heat up between Sakic and Benning. I was initially opposed to a trade centered around Duchene and Tanev, but to be honest that would be a HUGE get, and the Avs only lose a year of age there in the deal. And that might not be that bad if one thinks Duchene is only gonna get more injury prone as time wears on.

I'm sure though that there would be more involved that might make it unpalatable though, but Tanev would be the kind of d-man the Avs haven't had in a long, long, LONG time. Certainly not flashy but one of the best stay-at-home guys in the league right now.

Just a thought. Feel free to tear it up at your leisure.

I wouldn't be too concerned with the age thing. Defensemen peak later than forwards, Tanev would be in his prime right at the same time as the MacKinnon core. I would be quite happy with that outcome.

 

[Pokecheque]

I wouldn't be too concerned with the age thing. Defensemen peak later than forwards, Tanev would be in his prime right at the same time as the MacKinnon core. I would be quite happy with that outcome.

I'd also add that Tanev doesn't really play a punishing physical game, nor is his game predicated on speed. I think he'd be a perfect get, or about as perfect under the circumstances as the Avs have ANY right to expect.

The only downside is that he's right-handed, but they could find a way to make it work, especially if it means bumping EJ a little bit down the lineup.

 

[Balthazar]

I see no upside whatsoever into getting Tanev. Like none at all. Wrong age group, plays on wrong side, wrong kind of dman, wrong timing to get a dman like that, etc etc etc.

Nada. I'd rather keep Duchene and get rental value later.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I'm actually hoping some talks heat up between Sakic and Benning. I was initially opposed to a trade centered around Duchene and Tanev, but to be honest that would be a HUGE get, and the Avs only lose a year of age there in the deal. And that might not be that bad if one thinks Duchene is only gonna get more injury prone as time wears on.

I'm sure though that there would be more involved that might make it unpalatable though, but Tanev would be the kind of d-man the Avs haven't had in a long, long, LONG time. Certainly not flashy but one of the best stay-at-home guys in the league right now.

Just a thought. Feel free to tear it up at your leisure.

I wonder if Juolevi would be on the table? I'd probably do a Duchene/Juolevi trade straight up at this point. If by chance the Nucks were willing to add to it I'd be even more excited.

 

[Freudian]

Butcher was 17th in last years prospect poll. This forum has never been very high on him.

Players of his size usually have to be good skaters to make the NHL. We'll see how he does when he signs with a team.

 

[Foppa]

Butcher was 17th in last years prospect poll. This forum has never been very high on him.

In a mediocre system to boot. Can we please staple this to the Butcher over-hype/Avs are failures thread in the main forum?

I don't like that we are losing him for nothing but we are, we have better prospects in the system, time to move on and stop worrying about what hacks like Lambert think. "Avs suck" articles are pretty popular these days but it's hard to find any that actually are insightful and not just a bunch of BS and tripe.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Butcher was 17th in last years prospect poll. This forum has never been very high on him.

Players of his size usually have to be good skaters to make the NHL. We'll see how he does when he signs with a team.

Butcher arguably had a better year in 15/16 than he just had this year too. Plus the Avs had no Makar, Timmins or Shvyryov last year.

 

[Pokecheque]

I see no upside whatsoever into getting Tanev. Like none at all. Wrong age group, plays on wrong side, wrong kind of dman, wrong timing to get a dman like that, etc etc etc.

Nada. I'd rather keep Duchene and get rental value later.

Wrong kind of defenseman? Why is that?

 

[tigervixxxen]

In a mediocre system to boot. Can we please staple this to the Butcher over-hype/Avs are failures thread in the main forum?

I don't like that we are losing him for nothing but we are, we have better prospects in the system, time to move on and stop worrying about what hacks like Lambert think. "Avs suck" articles are pretty popular these days but it's hard to find any that actually are insightful and not just a bunch of BS and tripe.

Here's another indicator. There is no Butcher thread on the prospects board. At no time did anyone think he was high profile enough to make one. There's a thread over there for anyone with even a speck of hype.

Also, for those that worry Jost didn't get stronger over the summer.