Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 2017-18 Part III

[StayAtHomeAv]

Thank you! And McMetal I definitely see your point. I feel SA is getting crowded and we still have STL guys coming in too. I wouldn't think there's much playing time available.

Competetion is a good thing.

 

[cgf]

This article is really, really good at articulating what I've been saying about the AHL and opportunity. It's a free article so open to everyone.

Good read

 

[henchman21]

Work ethic, roles, and coachability make such a huge difference on the fringe players. If a player is a fringe sort, they better be able to play special teams, be a great faceoff player, work their ass off, be supremely coachable, etc in some combination in order to stick in the NHL. McLeod wouldn't be an AHL all star, but he fit a role when he broke into the NHL, was supremely coachable, worked his ass off, and was a good glue guy. Over time, he tried to add PKing to his responsibility to add a role to keep him up. For a face puncher, he is going to hit 700 NHL games and that is quite amazing.

Travis Morin is a fantastic AHL player... once of the best over the past decade. But he couldn't step into a NHL role because he isn't talented enough to be a top 6 guy, he can't be a PK guy, he can't crash and bang on a 4th line, he can't fight, he can't be a shutdown guy, he can't be a faceoff specialist, etc. He is a great professional hockey player, but he can't find a NHL role. I look at the same team and see Gemel Smith who isn't nearly the AHL hockey player that Morin is, but I see a guy with a better NHL shot. Smith can play a crash and bang game (despite being smaller), he can PK, he is supremely coachable, etc.

I know I have an unpopular opinion on Nantel, but these are a part of the red flags I saw. He couldn't carve out an AHL role, and he isn't talented enough to be a top end AHL guy. If he doesn't carve out a role this year, I don't think there is a lot of hope left there.

We will likely see something similar to what Bourne is alluding to with Ghetto here. Given a top 6 role with good players, he will produce... but he isn't good enough to be a top 6 guy on a good team. As the Avs get better (hopefully), he will likely fall into the fringes and not be able to stick with better teams in the NHL... but on bad teams he will probably be a 40+ point guy.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

McLeod made the NHL because he had an exceptionally high offensive ceiling for his standards and was willing to lay his body out for anything. Greg Mauldin is an example of a player who almost did the same with the Avs.

He stayed in the NHL because he was coachable and figured out how to make himself valuable beyond being a pesky fighter. Had he not done that, he would have been out of the league years sooner.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Nantel is a fantastic PKer and is used in that role in the AHL.

But the point isn't about any one player, it's about opportunity as much as anything else.

 

[henchman21]

Nantel is a fantastic PKer and is used in that role in the AHL.

But the point isn't about any one player, it's about opportunity as much as anything else.

We greatly disagree on fantastic, and being used in that role (especially with their injuries) is different than being 'the guy' in that role.

I'm saying to get opportunity, they have to have something that coaches and GMs love about their game. They can't just be good AHL players, they have to have something teams can latch onto.

 

[Pokecheque]

That Bourne piece is fantastic, I encourage everyone to read. And you don't need a subscription to read it (for now).

I remember reading about Eric Lacroix's playing career. From what I remember he was a decent AHL scorer but never stuck in the NHL. Then his coach at the time, Marc Crawford, started deploying him as a grinder, to which he objected. Crawford told him "you know what kind of player you need to be" or something to that extent, and that was when he completely changed his game. Only then did he gain a foothold in the NHL.

I still say Nantel is a far better 7th round pick than some of the garbage Pracey used to collect back in the day. Maybe he has some NHL potential, maybe he doesn't, but he's at least proven he's an AHL pro.

There is something to be said about draftees vs. undrafted FAs though. I think I saw somewhere that active rosters in the NFL are now comprised of more undrafted free agents than draft picks. I think the same thing will eventually happen in the NHL as well, GMs and scouts just gotta get over themselves.

 

[CobraAcesS]

That Bourne piece is fantastic, I encourage everyone to read. And you don't need a subscription to read it (for now).

I remember reading about Eric Lacroix's playing career. From what I remember he was a decent AHL scorer but never stuck in the NHL. Then his coach at the time, Marc Crawford, started deploying him as a grinder, to which he objected. Crawford told him "you know what kind of player you need to be" or something to that extent, and that was when he completely changed his game. Only then did he gain a foothold in the NHL.

I still say Nantel is a far better 7th round pick than some of the garbage Pracey used to collect back in the day. Maybe he has some NHL potential, maybe he doesn't, but he's at least proven he's an AHL pro.

There is something to be said about draftees vs. undrafted FAs though. I think I saw somewhere that active rosters in the NFL are now comprised of more undrafted free agents than draft picks. I think the same thing will eventually happen in the NHL as well, GMs and scouts just gotta get over themselves.

What the hell are you even talking about here? The NFL part is pretty clear, but the NHL part makes no sense to me.

Am I understanding this right? You think NHL rosters will some day be comprised of more un-drafted free-agents than players who were drafted?

 

[Cousin Eddie]

That Bourne piece is fantastic, I encourage everyone to read. And you don't need a subscription to read it (for now).

I remember reading about Eric Lacroix's playing career. From what I remember he was a decent AHL scorer but never stuck in the NHL. Then his coach at the time, Marc Crawford, started deploying him as a grinder, to which he objected. Crawford told him "you know what kind of player you need to be" or something to that extent, and that was when he completely changed his game. Only then did he gain a foothold in the NHL.

I still say Nantel is a far better 7th round pick than some of the garbage Pracey used to collect back in the day. Maybe he has some NHL potential, maybe he doesn't, but he's at least proven he's an AHL pro.

There is something to be said about draftees vs. undrafted FAs though. I think I saw somewhere that active rosters in the NFL are now comprised of more undrafted free agents than draft picks. I think the same thing will eventually happen in the NHL as well, GMs and scouts just gotta get over themselves.

I think the complete opposite. Scouting keeps getting better and better. Once upon a time there were a lot more late round finds and less sure things early in the draft because of scouting. Nowadays those late round finds are selected much earlier because everyone is aware of them. There are much fewer early busts too because scouts have a better ability to observe how their game will grow into the future.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I think the complete opposite. Scouting keeps getting better and better. Once upon a time there were a lot more late round finds and less sure things early in the draft because of scouting. Nowadays those late round finds are selected much earlier because everyone is aware of them. There are much fewer early busts too because scouts have a better ability to observe how their game will grow into the future.

Just see, "How the Detroit Redwings were built."


This is definitely happening even more recently in a big way for defenders. Roy was right about finding defense later, but was a bit outdated with it.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Just see, "How the Detroit Redwings were built."


This is definitely happening even more recently in a big way for defenders. Roy was right about finding defense later, but was a bit outdated with it.

I'm starting to think maybe Roy meant "Later in life".

"Let's sign Nate Guenin and play him every night for 2 years. he's 30 and never cracked an NHL roster before but let's do it."

"Let's trade for Brad Stuart. He was a good player when I played."

"Let's sign Francois Beauchmin until he can no longer walk, Sekera is much too young"

 

[CobraAcesS]

I'm starting to think maybe Roy meant "Later in life".

"Let's sign Nate Guenin and play him every night for 2 years. he's 30 and never cracked an NHL roster before but let's do it."

"Let's trade for Brad Stuart. He was a good player when I played."

"Let's sign Francois Beauchmin until he can no longer walk, Sekera is much too young"

That is quite possible, but we don't want to talk too much crap about Roy. People might think we're giving Sakic a pass.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

So serious question... Are we John Tavares players if he makes it to UFA? Wait, let me say that again. If we land a top pairing potential LHD in a Matt Duchene trade are we John Tavares players if he makes it to UFA?

It's never spoken about here. And yes, I realize we're awful, we shouldn't worry about signing UFA's nor would they care about coming to Denver. On the other hand though, after we fix that top pairing LHD issue I really think high end centre is our next biggest issue. It's possible that Jost becomes capable of that #2 role but I think a JT is the type of centre we need. Mackinnon is exceptional but it would be nice to not have him matching up against other teams top lines. Tavares (for a major chunk of money) can take those top matchups and add a whole lot of value to our team.

It's a long way's away. Lot's can and will happen between now and next summer. But if he's a UFA on July 1, our near distant cap situation is looking good and our defense has been addressed, I'm throwing coin at him.

 

[henchman21]

That Bourne piece is fantastic, I encourage everyone to read. And you don't need a subscription to read it (for now).

I remember reading about Eric Lacroix's playing career. From what I remember he was a decent AHL scorer but never stuck in the NHL. Then his coach at the time, Marc Crawford, started deploying him as a grinder, to which he objected. Crawford told him "you know what kind of player you need to be" or something to that extent, and that was when he completely changed his game. Only then did he gain a foothold in the NHL.

I still say Nantel is a far better 7th round pick than some of the garbage Pracey used to collect back in the day. Maybe he has some NHL potential, maybe he doesn't, but he's at least proven he's an AHL pro.

There is something to be said about draftees vs. undrafted FAs though. I think I saw somewhere that active rosters in the NFL are now comprised of more undrafted free agents than draft picks. I think the same thing will eventually happen in the NHL as well, GMs and scouts just gotta get over themselves.

I strongly disagree with that. At best he was a low, low end AHL player last year.

So serious question... Are we John Tavares players if he makes it to UFA? Wait, let me say that again. If we land a top pairing potential LHD in a Matt Duchene trade are we John Tavares players if he makes it to UFA?

It's never spoken about here. And yes, I realize we're awful, we shouldn't worry about signing UFA's nor would they care about coming to Denver. On the other hand though, after we fix that top pairing LHD issue I really think high end centre is our next biggest issue. It's possible that Jost becomes capable of that #2 role but I think a JT is the type of centre we need. Mackinnon is exceptional but it would be nice to not have him matching up against other teams top lines. Tavares (for a major chunk of money) can take those top matchups and add a whole lot of value to our team.

It's a long way's away. Lot's can and will happen between now and next summer. But if he's a UFA on July 1, our near distant cap situation is looking good and our defense has been addressed, I'm throwing coin at him.

I'd pay out the ear for JT here.

 

[McMetal]

Tavares would be the offensive game changer we hope MacKinnon could be. I'm just leery of the kind of UFA contract he would get, nevermind if he would pick us.

 

[CobraAcesS]

So serious question... Are we John Tavares players if he makes it to UFA? Wait, let me say that again. If we land a top pairing potential LHD in a Matt Duchene trade are we John Tavares players if he makes it to UFA?

It's never spoken about here. And yes, I realize we're awful, we shouldn't worry about signing UFA's nor would they care about coming to Denver. On the other hand though, after we fix that top pairing LHD issue I really think high end centre is our next biggest issue. It's possible that Jost becomes capable of that #2 role but I think a JT is the type of centre we need. Mackinnon is exceptional but it would be nice to not have him matching up against other teams top lines. Tavares (for a major chunk of money) can take those top matchups and add a whole lot of value to our team.

It's a long way's away. Lot's can and will happen between now and next summer. But if he's a UFA on July 1, our near distant cap situation is looking good and our defense has been addressed, I'm throwing coin at him.

I don't see why they wouldn't try. Especially since they tried to sign Kirk. If everything went perfectly I could see us or Columbus actually being dark horses for it. The AAV we could hand out is the only thing we could beat Columbus on though IMO.

I don't know how much truth there is to Duchene and Tavares actually having any sort of real friendship beyond knowing each other from their draft year, but how Sakic has handled that, and how he might in the future could influence it in a negative light.

I feel like this is akin to discussing a snowball's chance in hell, but it's August. The team I really think he'll sign for if hes smart is Columbus though. They will be truly missing a #1C as the only piece with the rest of the roster set with plenty of experience. Oh, and you know a competent coach. Although maybe we'll get some luck, draft Dahlin, and pickup one of Q or Trotz this coming off-season lol.

 

[Thepoolmaster]

No Tavares is obviously going to Toronto to play behind Matthews and bring glory to the franchise.

 

[ABasin]

So serious question... Are we John Tavares players if he makes it to UFA? Wait, let me say that again. If we land a top pairing potential LHD in a Matt Duchene trade are we John Tavares players if he makes it to UFA?

It's never spoken about here. And yes, I realize we're awful, we shouldn't worry about signing UFA's nor would they care about coming to Denver. On the other hand though, after we fix that top pairing LHD issue I really think high end centre is our next biggest issue. It's possible that Jost becomes capable of that #2 role but I think a JT is the type of centre we need. Mackinnon is exceptional but it would be nice to not have him matching up against other teams top lines. Tavares (for a major chunk of money) can take those top matchups and add a whole lot of value to our team.

It's a long way's away. Lot's can and will happen between now and next summer. But if he's a UFA on July 1, our near distant cap situation is looking good and our defense has been addressed, I'm throwing coin at him.

Tavares is a damn good hockey player. Not sure what he'd cost though. Could they fit his salary into "the structure"?

Actually, that brings up a question. If Duchene leaves, does the Duchene salary structure leave with him?

 

[bohlmeister]

So serious question... Are we John Tavares players if he makes it to UFA? Wait, let me say that again. If we land a top pairing potential LHD in a Matt Duchene trade are we John Tavares players if he makes it to UFA?

It's never spoken about here. And yes, I realize we're awful, we shouldn't worry about signing UFA's nor would they care about coming to Denver. On the other hand though, after we fix that top pairing LHD issue I really think high end centre is our next biggest issue. It's possible that Jost becomes capable of that #2 role but I think a JT is the type of centre we need. Mackinnon is exceptional but it would be nice to not have him matching up against other teams top lines. Tavares (for a major chunk of money) can take those top matchups and add a whole lot of value to our team.

It's a long way's away. Lot's can and will happen between now and next summer. But if he's a UFA on July 1, our near distant cap situation is looking good and our defense has been addressed, I'm throwing coin at him.

The Islanders will open the wallet for Tavares. At least I will imagine they will. So if he left, it would mean he wants to win, and be part of a better team. I wouldn't presume he would be willing to leave that mess for another mess.

 

[SaltySkywalker]

Tavares is a damn good hockey player. Not sure what he'd cost though. Could they fit his salary into "the structure"?

Actually, that brings up a question. If Duchene leaves, does the Duchene salary structure leave with him?

Considering Mack is paid more now...that structure has already ended.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Tavares is a damn good hockey player. Not sure what he'd cost though. Could they fit his salary into "the structure"?

Actually, that brings up a question. If Duchene leaves, does the Duchene salary structure leave with him?

This is so 2015

 

[Pokecheque]

What the hell are you even talking about here? The NFL part is pretty clear, but the NHL part makes no sense to me.

Am I understanding this right? You think NHL rosters will some day be comprised of more un-drafted free-agents than players who were drafted?

Yes. That is exactly what I'm saying.

I could be wrong. The turnover in football is ridiculous, and rosters are far, far larger. A vast, vast portion of NFL players are guys we'll never hear about. The volumes are a bit different in other sports.

But why is that such a ridiculous notion? I mean, what does it matter where a good player comes from? And really, if a given team acquires no extra picks, they're taking on, what, seven players per draft? And they're not necessarily gonna sign all seven of those players. Conversely, they can sign as many as the contract limit allows.

And hey, y'know, sometimes these undrafted free agents pan out.

 

[Freudian]

NFL teams are big and the career lengths short. Players are expendable since they don't have guaranteed contracts. It makes sense that you have a lot of free agents there.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Hell no would JT come here. We got one college FA let's not go crazy.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Considering Mack is paid more now...that structure has already ended.

It's just the Mack structure now. Though they might have to break it for Mikko.