Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 2016-17 Part XXVI

[CobraAcesS]

I got 25 current NHL centers that I'd take over Duchene; (By team A to W)

Getzlaf, Bergeron, Krejci, Eichel, O'Reilly, Monahan, Toews, MacKinnon,
Seguin, McDavid, Draisaitl, Barkov, Kopitar, Carter, Johansen, Tavares,
Giroux, Crosby, Malkin, Pavelski, Thornton, Stamkos, Matthews, Backstrom,
Scheifele.

With these teams not having a center I'd take over Duchene; AZ, CAR, CBJ, DET, MIN, MON, NJ, NYI, NY, OTT, STL

Keep in mind this is not based on things like contract term and years left of peak performance. Guys I was on the fence about were Stepan, Marleau, Wennberg, Zetterberg (way slower these days and oft injured), Turris, and Couturier for his defensive ability. If you include all of those guys you get to 31..

Like I said you have to stretch it to push him into the 30s IMO.

Also laying out how many teams he'd be the top line center for is interesting. That's 11 teams, and 6 of those teams made the playoffs.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

Wonder what the Kroenke's thoughts and involvements on all this nonesense are. Would love if they had a "if duchene isn't gone by Monday, Sakic is." Attitude.

"Who are the Avs?"

 

[Bordeleau Of Blood]

So Garth is unleashing his little media sock puppet to try and cover his own ass? Delightful.

 

[CalderKing21]

For me, Duchene is my favorite Avs player(so I am a bit biased), Varly and EJ are the only other 2 I have a semi emotional tie to.

If you are Sakic and you are going to trade Duchene, why would you settle for a package less than a top 20 player or C would net?

It is one thing to say "Ok, I value this player at X amount $$$ of AAV because he's a #2 C". But when you are talking about trading a player you have to weigh the value of the trade in terms of importance and role the current player plays vs what the potential package will return.

Why would you trade Duchene for a lesser package than the role he plays for your team? Even if you need to upgrade the D? You can theoretically upgrade the defense and forward position in the draft and still have Duchene rather than accept a lesser package than you value him for.

He's only 26 and had previously put up a career high 30 goals the previous season, you don't sell low on him. You don't trade for the sake of trading, this isn't a hockey game.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I got 25 current NHL centers that I'd take over Duchene; (By team A to W)

Getzlaf, Bergeron, Krejci, Eichel, O'Reilly, Monahan, Toews, MacKinnon,
Seguin, McDavid, Draisaitl, Barkov, Kopitar, Carter, Johansen, Tavares,
Giroux, Crosby, Malkin, Pavelski, Thornton, Stamkos, Matthews, Backstrom,
Scheifele.

With these teams not having a center I'd take over Duchene; AZ, CAR, CBJ, DET, MIN, MON, NJ, NYI, NY, OTT, STL

Keep in mind this is not based on things like contract term and years left of peak performance. Guys I was on the fence about were Stepan, Marleau, Wennberg, Zetterberg (way slower these days and oft injured), Turris, and Couturier for his defensive ability. If you include all of those guys you get to 31..

Like I said you have to stretch it to push him into the 30s IMO.

Also laying out how many teams he'd be the top line center for is interesting. That's 11 teams, and 6 of those teams made the playoffs.

That's pretty similar to my list. Other than Pavelski who doesn't play centre

 

[JoemAvs]

"Who are the Avs?"

Pretty sure it is:

"How is his jump shot?"

I mean it is not like the Nuggets couldn't use some help.

Or Arsenal.. Or the Rams...


I really wonder if Stan ever gets interested in having success with his franchises.I mean he has all the money in the world.
Doesn't at some point everyone calling you a bad owner annoy you and motivate you to change things?

 

[Freudian]

You trade Duchene because if you don't, you're going to get Stastny'd in two years time.

If the offered returns haven't been good enough in well over a year, with multiple teams interested, perhaps it's time to accept reality and realize your ask is too high.

Is Sakic actually believing the other GMs are playing silly games with him for well over a year and they'll crack any day now?

I bet Sakic knows the offers he passed up on were good looking back and now his silly pride makes him unable to settle for anything less.

 

[CobraAcesS]

That's pretty similar to my list. Other than Pavelski who doesn't play centre

Hes played center at times. I'd take him over Duchene at any position.

 

[CalderKing21]

You trade Duchene because if you don't, you're going to get Stastny'd in two years time.

If the offered returns haven't been good enough in well over a year, with multiple teams interested, perhaps it's time to accept reality and realize your ask is too high.

Is Sakic actually believing the other GMs are playing silly games with him for well over a year and they'll crack any day now?

I bet Sakic knows the offers he passed up on were good looking back and now his silly pride makes him unable to settle for anything less.

They could just as easily end up re-signing him so you do not trade him just to avoid another Stastny situation.

If you have made up your mind fully that he is not going to be a part of your team moving forward will play no role in your future then yes, you move him now.

Sakic isn't all in though so you don't trade just to trade.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Hes played center at times. I'd take him over Duchene at any position.

Not recently. I'd take him over Duchene at any position too. But if we're listing centre's better than Duchene I don't think it's fair to list guys who don't play the position. I'd bet Tarasenko and Jamie Benn would be a better hockey player if they shifted to centre too (despite the learning) but that's not where they play.

 

[henchman21]

I just can't put Duchene ahead of Kesler, Stepan, Trocheck, and Horvat... even accounting for age on Kesler. Going further... I'd take ROR's all around game over Duchene right now, and Little is incredibly underrated. Even Kadri is getting a bit shortchanged... he has grown immensely in his all around game under Babcock. I didn't include Stamkos because I see him as a wing now. We see it all differently though. IMO Duchene is certainly not a top 15 center, and doesn't command that value or even close.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Not recently. I'd take him over Duchene at any position too. But if we're listing centre's better than Duchene I don't think it's fair to list guys who don't play the position. I'd bet Tarasenko and Jamie Benn would be a better hockey player if they shifted to centre too (despite the learning) but that's not where they play.

That's a fair point. I'd argue it shouldn't be held against me to keep track of who SJ is playing at center between Thornton, Marleau, Couture, Pavs, and Hertle lol.

 

[Menwithouthat tricks]

Staple has done nothing but say whatever Snow wants to be out there. He's also now reporting that the Isles probably won't be big players in FA. If Snow had other trades lined up to add a #2 centre he'd have done them already. I'd say he's a desperate man trying to re-sign his star forward, and facing the fact that so far his off-season looks like this:

In:

Jordan Eberle
Calgary 2018 1st
Calgary 2018 2nd
Calgary 2019 2nd

Out

Travis Hamonic
Ryan Strome
2017 1st
2019 2nd
Mikhail Grabovski

Isles fan here, though you probably don't want to hear from us anymore.

You take the above transactions as a bad offseason for Garth; it is not. The Isles made a deal with Vegas without which they would have lost Calvin DeHann. So let's reorganize what happened:

In Eberle Out: Strome - okay for Isles
In Calgary 2018 first, 2018 second, 2019 second Out: Hamonic and I believe a 2019 4th - Isles get good value for Hamonic

And finally:
In : DeHann, or Brock Nelson or Pelech (one of which would have been gone)
Out 2017 first, 2019 second, Grabowsky (a $5 million cap dump who will not play again).
This last set of transactions is a big win for the Isles.

In sum: above post presented as a bad offseason for Garth, but it isn't really.

 

[JoemAvs]

I just can't put Duchene ahead of Kesler, Stepan, Trocheck, and Horvat... even accounting for age on Kesler. Going further... I'd take ROR's all around game over Duchene right now, and Little is incredibly underrated. Even Kadri is getting a bit shortchanged... he has grown immensely in his all around game under Babcock. I didn't include Stamkos because I see him as a wing now. We see it all differently though. IMO Duchene is certainly not a top 15 center, and doesn't command that value or even close.

I take him easily ahead of these guys personally. But that is just me.

ROR is close under regular circumstances (aka Duchene on another team ) but given his current state, it is ROR..

Kadri IMO is more of a product of Babcock than anything else.

Maybe he really helped him become a better player but I would not bet on it and trade for him unless Babcock comes along with him as well.

 

[RockLobster]

They could just as easily end up re-signing him so you do not trade him just to avoid another Stastny situation.

If you have made up your mind fully that he is not going to be a part of your team moving forward will play no role in your future then yes, you move him now.

Sakic isn't all in though so you don't trade just to trade.

MD didn't take anything close to a "discount" on his current deal (and I'm not saying that you said he did, it's part of a larger overall point), so why should we assume that he's not going to ask for 6M at minimum on his next deal (and likely more given his name cache)?

The Avs drafted a Duchene replacement in Jost last season (pretty obvious, if you ask me), and I would hope that they don't want to even pay Duchene 6M on his next contract. As a fan, I don't really want a part of that.

 

[Freudian]

They could just as easily end up re-signing him so you do not trade him just to avoid another Stastny situation.

If you have made up your mind fully that he is not going to be a part of your team moving forward will play no role in your future then yes, you move him now.

Sakic isn't all in though so you don't trade just to trade.

A player getting his agent involved because he's ready to move on is not going to re-sign here.

Duchene is gone. Either traded within the next two years or he'll sign somewhere else.

When the player himself talks in more glowing terms of the opponents team than his own at trade deadline and says to the media that he's "open to being traded" what more should he do? Get a "trade me" face tattoo? Duchene is mentally checked out already and if he's brought back for next season it's a coinflip if he can regain composure or just be a walking dead for Avs.

 

[tucker3434]

Isles fan here, though you probably don't want to hear from us anymore.

You take the above transactions as a bad offseason for Garth; it is not. The Isles made a deal with Vegas without which they would have lost Calvin DeHann. So let's reorganize what happened:

In Eberle Out: Strome - okay for Isles
In Calgary 2018 first, 2018 second, 2019 second Out: Hamonic and I believe a 2019 4th - Isles get good value for Hamonic

And finally:
In : DeHann (who would have been gone)
Out 2017 first, 2019 second, Grabowsky (a $5 million cap dump who will not play again).
This last set of transactions is a big win for the Isles.

In sum: above post presented as a bad offseason for Garth, but it isn't really.

Regardless of any justification, it's hard to look at the ins and outs and see a better team now than a few months ago. That Hamonic trade is great for a rebuilding team, but I didn't think NYI was rebuilding.

 

[Avs44]

Isles fan here, though you probably don't want to hear from us anymore.

You take the above transactions as a bad offseason for Garth; it is not. The Isles made a deal with Vegas without which they would have lost Calvin DeHann. So let's reorganize what happened:

In Eberle Out: Strome - okay for Isles
In Calgary 2018 first, 2018 second, 2019 second Out: Hamonic and I believe a 2019 4th - Isles get good value for Hamonic

And finally:
In : DeHann (who would have been gone)
Out 2017 first, 2019 second, Grabowsky (a $5 million cap dump who will not play again).
This last set of transactions is a big win for the Isles.

In sum: above post presented as a bad offseason for Garth, but it isn't really.

An issue that could have been fixed by simply protecting CDH in the first place. The ED also hit every team, and the fact of the matter is that what I typed above is still very much true. That is Snow's off-season so far, yes?

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Isles fan here, though you probably don't want to hear from us anymore.

You take the above transactions as a bad offseason for Garth; it is not. The Isles made a deal with Vegas without which they would have lost Calvin DeHann. So let's reorganize what happened:

In Eberle Out: Strome - okay for Isles
In Calgary 2018 first, 2018 second, 2019 second Out: Hamonic and I believe a 2019 4th - Isles get good value for Hamonic

And finally:
In : DeHann, or Brock Nelson or Pelech (one of which would have been gone)
Out 2017 first, 2019 second, Grabowsky (a $5 million cap dump who will not play again).
This last set of transactions is a big win for the Isles.

In sum: above post presented as a bad offseason for Garth, but it isn't really.

Other teams managed to give up lesser assets to protect better players than CDH. The Islanders had a lot of work to do because of a bunch of mediocre players they didn't want to lose, but they didn't have the high end protection concerns that some other teams had yet they still paid an arm and a leg. Garth is not having himself a very good offseason so far. But it's still very early.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Hartnell bought out. Making room for something I wonder?

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

Isles fan here, though you probably don't want to hear from us anymore.

You take the above transactions as a bad offseason for Garth; it is not. The Isles made a deal with Vegas without which they would have lost Calvin DeHann. So let's reorganize what happened:

In Eberle Out: Strome - okay for Isles
In Calgary 2018 first, 2018 second, 2019 second Out: Hamonic and I believe a 2019 4th - Isles get good value for Hamonic

And finally:
In : DeHann (who would have been gone)
Out 2017 first, 2019 second, Grabowsky (a $5 million cap dump who will not play again).
This last set of transactions is a big win for the Isles.

In sum: above post presented as a bad offseason for Garth, but it isn't really.

Good job keeping CDH. But you guys are expected to win now. You flipped Strome for Eberle. That's a little bit of an upgrade. But trading Hamonic for futures is a terrible move.

Right now, your team is worse than it was last year. The off-season is still young though.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I just can't put Duchene ahead of Kesler, Stepan, Trocheck, and Horvat... even accounting for age on Kesler. Going further... I'd take ROR's all around game over Duchene right now, and Little is incredibly underrated. Even Kadri is getting a bit shortchanged... he has grown immensely in his all around game under Babcock. I didn't include Stamkos because I see him as a wing now. We see it all differently though. IMO Duchene is certainly not a top 15 center, and doesn't command that value or even close.

Yeah there is some arguments that are created making any list like that, but my point is that you have to make a legit effort to push him out of the top 30 IMO.

Little was actually one that I forgot to mention I was on the fence about as well. There is an argument there. I can't agree on Kesler, Trocheck, and Horvat though. I won't speak to Kadri because I haven't paid any attention to him recently. You definitely have a point on Stamkos, but they may never get away with permanently putting him on the wing. They are getting away with it lately because of his injuries, but he wants to be at center badly.

 

[Murzu]

Hartnell bought out. Making room for something I wonder?

Yes. Kovalchuk.

 

[Mighty Makar]

Hartnell bought out. Making room for something I wonder?

Kovalchuk or Duchene.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Hartnell bought out. Making room for something I wonder?

This makes no sense to me post ED unless they are trying to make room. That could be for a lot of reasons though. Hartnel isn't useless by any means either.