Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 2016-17 Part XXVI

[henchman21]

I won't expound too much (so don't ask), but what I gather is that Sakic is valuing Duchene at a legit #1C level (top ~15 sort) and asking for that sort of return. I'd argue his evaluation is significantly off, but if he can get that return... I'd be very happy.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I won't expound too much (so don't ask), but what I gather is that Sakic is valuing Duchene at a legit #1C level (top ~15 sort) and asking for that sort of return. I'd argue his evaluation is significantly off, but if he can get that return... I'd be very happy.

Where would you put Duchene at in terms of centers? 20s?

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Staple has done nothing but say whatever Snow wants to be out there. He's also now reporting that the Isles probably won't be big players in FA. If Snow had other trades lined up to add a #2 centre he'd have done them already. I'd say he's a desperate man trying to re-sign his star forward, and facing the fact that so far his off-season looks like this:

In:

Jordan Eberle
Calgary 2018 1st
Calgary 2018 2nd
Calgary 2019 2nd

Out

Travis Hamonic
Ryan Strome
2017 1st
2019 2nd
Mikhail Grabovski

LOL. They've gotten worse now, and by a fair margin. Plus it's unknown if they even got better futures at this point depending on how those draft picks play out.

 

[Ararana]

It's hilarious because if JT runs, and look at that why wouldn't he, Islander fans will probably blame the Sakic for a century for not gifting them Duchene.

 

[henchman21]

Where would you put Duchene at in terms of centers? 20s?

Haven't really put too much thought into it, but probably the 30s... good 2nd liner.

 

[RockLobster]

Where would you put Duchene at in terms of centers? 20s?

On a team like the Isles, Duchene would be a god-send for them I think. He'd be a great, bordering on elite, 2C for them with the option to do what the Avs used to do when they had Sakic and Forsberg, and pair them together when they were down late.

But I'd say he's an "OK" 1C, good 2C.

(or basically what Henchy said)

 

[CobraAcesS]

Haven't really put too much thought into it, but probably the 30s... good 2nd liner.

I know you are not high on him, but I'd have a hard time finding 30 centers I'd take over him. It becomes a lot easier if you do it from a pure value standpoint though (years of control/Peak performance). On the ice today for a win now team though. I don't think it's possible.

That is probably why Sakic can't get what he wants from Carolina though.


Edit : This makes me think about what some posters have mentioned regarding Sakic trying too hard to get that player who has some proven NHL pedigree. The teams willing to dump a very strong futures package are teams that are currently competitive and looking for something to push them over the edge.

 

[Goulet17]

Haven't really put too much thought into it, but probably the 30s... good 2nd liner.

Based on your thought that Duchene slots in the 30s, what kind of value would you place on him in trade? I am talking in terms of a piece or pieces (i.e., youngish top-4 defender, a first round draft pick, or a blue chip prospect, or a combination of those components?

Just curious.

 

[tucker3434]

I won't expound too much (so don't ask), but what I gather is that Sakic is valuing Duchene at a legit #1C level (top ~15 sort) and asking for that sort of return. I'd argue his evaluation is significantly off, but if he can get that return... I'd be very happy.

Well that'd be a bit crazy, especially after this year. He could make that play last offseason, but not after the year Duchene had. Nobody is going to pay that price.

 

[JoemAvs]

Well Duchene to the Islanders is dead. Never going to happen now. And honestly I am fine with that.

Staple seems to be in full damage control mode...


Really looks like Duchene will be an Av in October....

 

[Ararana]

Well Duchene to the Islanders is dead. Never going to happen now. And honestly I am fine with that.

Staple seems to be in full damage control mode...


Really looks like Duchene will be an Av in October....

I'm holding one last short breath for this weekend. If he's still here Monday morning, I've lost all hope he's moved this offseason.

 

[RockLobster]

Well Duchene to the Islanders is dead. Never going to happen now. And honestly I am fine with that.

Staple seems to be in full damage control mode...


Really looks like Duchene will be an Av in October....

Probably...and then we'll very likely see a continued drop in his trade value. Way to go, Joe!

 

[LieutenantDangle]

Probably...and then we'll very likely see a continued drop in his trade value. Way to go, Joe!

you've been anti duchene for years now. They dangle the carrot and get your hopes up and then squander the whole situation. Can't imagine how furious you are

 

[Freudian]

If you can't trade a scoring line center like Duchene in well over a year, then you are a worthless GM. Zero excuses. Just worthless.

If all you can do is small ball moves like Martinsen for Andrighetto, get out of the way and let someone else take over.

 

[RockLobster]

you've been anti duchene for years now. They dangle the carrot and get your hopes up and then squander the whole situation. Can't imagine how furious you are

I'm not so much "anti-Duchene" as I just never bought in like others have.

He's a good player, to say otherwise would be absolutely ludicrous. But, I don't think he's going to return to this "60-70 point" echelon this season, or any other after that. I think he's already hit his offensive peak. I don't think he will stay in Denver after his current contract is up, and even if he wants to, given what the Avs have and are building, I don't think I want the Avs to pay him what his next contract will likely be.

I do think that certain fans have some "graduation goggles" when it comes to him, because of how much was made of him being an Avs fan growing up, they think that his childhood love of the team will outweigh his desire to win and his desire to move on after what will be either 8-10 years of frustration and losing.

I was on record back before we traded O'Reilly that I would've kept him (O'Reilly) and traded Duchene, as I think we would've gotten a lot better of a package back then. And I stand by that today. It doesn't mean that I'm necessarily anti-Duchene though.

Like I said, he's a good player, but I think Joe's got his trade valuation completely off the mark, and that's why he's not getting any offers he likes. But if he wants to go ahead and bring back a player who's clearly unhappy, and drop him into that locker room when they're trying to get younger (and will have players like MacKinnon who's still coming into his own, Jost, Compher, and maybe even Greer) and have him and his situation be a distraction every day until the trade deadline, then that's his decision; no matter how much I disagree with it.

 

[CoachBadkitten]

Wonder what the Kroenke's thoughts and involvements on all this nonesense are. Would love if they had a "if duchene isn't gone by Monday, Sakic is." Attitude.

 

[Bubba Thudd]

Dutch will end up somewhere unexpected. Like Anaheim.

 

[Thepoolmaster]

This is all part of Sakic's plan to get JT here when he's a UFA

 

[JoemAvs]

Probably...and then we'll very likely see a continued drop in his trade value. Way to go, Joe!

Seems likely.

But if Sakic is really as spooked by the ROR deal (I believe that is a major reason for this even if people in here seem to disagree with me on that one) that he wants a surefire roster D out of any Duchene deal no matter what, there probably is simply not a feasible trade to be made.

No one is giving that up + offer the extra futures needed for this to make sense for the Avs.


I think Duchene is easily in the 15-20 range of centers if he can get away from the current mess that is the Avs. Maybe even higher if he gets into the right kind of situation. Dude is one of the most talented players in the league IMO.

That is why this Toronto interest scares me a bit. Really don't want to see him play for Babcock. Have a feeling he would explode playing for him.
Problem with Duchene was never his skill or talent level. It was his mental game and the inability to make it work with his linemates (which IMO mostly was a failure of the Avs and our coaches and not Duchenes.)

 

[henchman21]

I know you are not high on him, but I'd have a hard time finding 30 centers I'd take over him. It becomes a lot easier if you do it from a pure value standpoint though (years of control/Peak performance). On the ice today for a win now team though. I don't think it's possible.

That is probably why Sakic can't get what he wants from Carolina though.


Edit : This makes me think about what some posters have mentioned regarding Sakic trying too hard to get that player who has some proven NHL pedigree. The teams willing to dump a very strong futures package are teams that are currently competitive and looking for something to push them over the edge.

Crosby, Kopi, Towes, Malkin, McDavid, MacK, Barkov, Backstrom, Getzlaf, Seguin, Matthews, Thornton, RyJo, Kuznetsov, Bergeron, Monahan, Giroux, Eichel, Carter, Tavares, and Scheifele all seem like no-brainers above Duchene and that is 21 off the top of my head. Then you get into the others like Stepan, Trocheck, Horvat, Turris, Koivu, Kesler, Wennberg, Kadri, Krejci, Couture, Sedin, Little, ROR, Johnson, Turris, etc grouping that can be debated. 30s would be right where I place Duchene.

 

[Vaslof]

Montreal wanted to get rid of Galchenyuk. He was likely the main piece in those trade negotiations from Montreal's side. Colorado is looking for a LD. Sergachev was off the table. Not really great trading partners. Montreal would get what they want, Colorado would not. Basically the same story with Isles, just substitute Galchenyuk with Hamonic. Essentially trading for either of those players would leave us with a player we didn't really want in the first place. That probably isn't Sakic's goal, and it shouldn't be.

 

[S E P H]

Duchene, like EJ, are both players I regard as #1's even if they are on the lower end of the spectrum. Would both be regard as elite 2's in their positions, yes? But I do think that a team like Avs can get away playing them as their top line centre and defender respectively.

Duchene, is more of an average #1, who at times can play like an elite #1 and a very poor #1 depending on his mentality.

Dutch will end up somewhere unexpected. Like Anaheim.

That's what I am thinking, it's probably going to be a trade out of the blue where a lot of people weren't expecting from. Though I still believe that Carolina is still a legitimate spot even based on the reports. Not saying that GM's are liars, but from what we've seen from Bergevin, they don't always tell the truth.

If you can't trade a scoring line center like Duchene in well over a year, then you are a worthless GM. Zero excuses. Just worthless.

If all you can do is small ball moves like Martinsen for Andrighetto, get out of the way and let someone else take over.

The biggest issue I am having is the lack of negotiating based off the reports. It seems that Sakic is getting calls for Duchene, but that those conversations end fairly quickly. I put the blame on both sides here, Sakic isn't being proactive enough to keep in other GM's interest, while you have other GM/owners going on live TV laughing it up like its nonsense.

 

[Avs44]

The Isles were never the best of fits. The only piece that made sense on D was CDH from the start, and who know if the Isles even ever offered him knowing they had to move Hamonic. Hamonic was the Isles best trade chip and it makes logical sense the Avs wouldn't value him as much as others would considering his age, handedness, and injuries.


The problem here isn't that Sakic hasn't found a deal with the Isles, regardless of what their media and fans want to believe - it's that he hasn't found a fit over the past year with anyone else.

 

[henchman21]

Duchene, like EJ, are both players I regard as #1's even if they are on the lower end of the spectrum. Would both be regard as elite 2's in their positions, yes? But I do think that a team like Avs can get away playing them as their top line centre and defender respectively.

Duchene, is more of an average #1, who at times can play like an elite #1 and a very poor #1 depending on his mentality.

Duchene is what I'd term a 2a center. A guy who can be a #1 on a bad team, but not a guy that will raise that team to being competitive or be the guy who can drag a team through the playoffs. Behind a legit #1, I think Duchene could thrive. NYI would be a good spot for him.

 

[LieutenantDangle]

Sakic hath too much pride: