Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 18-19 part XVIII|Team Snowflake vs. Team Snowball

[Meeqs]

I wonder what Simmonds is gonna get in the off-season. IF he'll take south of 5mil I could see the Avs being interested. Say something like 4 years 4.5mil, he's not the premiere UFA and isn't having the best season. I see him as an upgrade on Colin Wilson for a line combo of:
Simmonds-Soderberg-Compher

This UFA will be so interesting to me, there will be talented guys who sign for far less than they normally would because UFA will be so stacked and there will only be so much money to go around. At the end of the day I'm curious which guys get big money and which ones get paycuts.

 

[Bender]

I'm wondering how ChiaPets firing effects the Oilers. Kind of feel like this is the year they get their 5th 1st overall in the last decade

Have they named McTavish yet?

 

[Meeqs]

People are still wondering if Jost is a bust?

Those people should show me all the other forwards taken in that draft that are killing it in the NHL like Jost should be like Brown, Mcleod, Nylander, Poolparty, Kunin, etc. . Who needs realistic expectations with prospect development though.

 

[Meeqs]

I'd prefer Hayes to Ferland, but Stone to Hayes. I mean, absolute dream scenario is to get Kakko with the Sens pick, sign Hayes and Stone. Run with a big boy line if Kakko-Hayes-Stone behind the 1st line.

Its interesting your dream scenario is getting a winger with the pick instead of a 1b center. Do you feel Kaut is only a 3rd line winger? Is that better than Kaut/Cozens or Hughes/Stone?

Not leaning one way or the other just an interesting conversation imo. KK is obviously a better player than Cozens, but getting a Center this year allows the Avs to do a lot more.

 

[Meeqs]

Proof that draft picks alone don't solve anything.

I'd say its more accurate to say that if you don't draft well you wont win rather than that. D&D is without a doubt the most important factor for successful teams in the NHL in the modern era.

 

[henchman21]

Those people should show me all the other forwards taken in that draft that are killing it in the NHL like Jost should be like Brown, Mcleod, Nylander, Poolparty, Kunin, etc. . Who needs realistic expectations with prospect development though.

2016 might just end up being a poor forward draft... but as has been gone through before a +3 season tends to be the season where high end forwards (meaning top 6) breakout and show signs of what they can do. +4 season tends to be when they fully establish. It isn't a set rule by any means, but the +3 season is when the clock starts ticking. +4 it can strike midnight, but by +5 it certainly is striking midnight.

McLeod was known as a guy who may have ceiling issues before the draft and those are coming to light. Brown was known as a guy that had drive issues and still does (also had injury issues too). Kunin tore his ACL. But all 3 have the clock starting to tick. Here is the thing though, Jost was rushed by the Avs no doubt... but he should still be able to find a way to play good hockey at the AHL level. He now as 8 games at that level and has 2 points. Kunin is a .75 ppg player there. Brown is in his first AHL season and at .64 points per game... and flat out great since mid December (maybe he is figuring it out). Nylander is on the verge of setting a career high in points in far less games (and also getting a ton of heat) this season. This is a pot calling the kettle black... those players just weren't rushed. That doesn't mean because Jost already has a season under his belt that he is better than those players.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Those people should show me all the other forwards taken in that draft that are killing it in the NHL like Jost should be like Brown, Mcleod, Nylander, Poolparty, Kunin, etc. . Who needs realistic expectations with prospect development though.

Just because it was a bad draft for forwards doesn’t mean that Jost is absolved from any criticism .

 

[henchman21]

I'd say its more accurate to say that if you don't draft well you wont win rather than that. D&D is without a doubt the most important factor for successful teams in the NHL in the modern era.

You have to draft well to win... but gathering top picks and picks in general doesn't mean you'll draft well. IMO scouting professional and amatuer are by far the greatest factors in building a Cup team. A bad GM can screw it all up (see Anaheim and Ottawa), but give a great scouting staff a decent front office, and they will build a competing team.

 

[OwenNolan]

Lot of players of his âge still play in Ncaa third year or after 2 years they played in ahl . Don't panic i'm sure Jost will be a good second liner.

Are those same players his age the 10th overall pick??

I see nothing in his game that shows a 2nd line player.

 

[Meeqs]

Are those same players his age the 10th overall pick??

I see nothing in his game that shows a 2nd line player.

Those players were picks, 4, 8, 11, 12, and 15 I think in his same draft year. So yeah, but your lack of knowing that pretty much says all I'd have to.

 

[Meeqs]

You have to draft well to win... but gathering top picks and picks in general doesn't mean you'll draft well. IMO scouting professional and amatuer are by far the greatest factors in building a Cup team. A bad GM can screw it all up (see Anaheim and Ottawa), but give a great scouting staff a decent front office, and they will build a competing team.

Bless our lord and savior Hepple haha

 

[Meeqs]

Just because it was a bad draft for forwards doesn’t mean that Jost is absolved from any criticism .

The point being that players should be compared to the opportunity cost of their draft piers. If the entire draft was just weak then the criticism of where he was drafted isn't very relevant. However if its someone like Bleakley who was taken over Pasta then you have a serious problem.

Its about having realistic expectations. If you're mad at Nemeth for not being a top pairing guy then that's more an issue with your expectations than his play right.

 

[Meeqs]

2016 might just end up being a poor forward draft... but as has been gone through before a +3 season tends to be the season where high end forwards (meaning top 6) breakout and show signs of what they can do. +4 season tends to be when they fully establish. It isn't a set rule by any means, but the +3 season is when the clock starts ticking. +4 it can strike midnight, but by +5 it certainly is striking midnight.

McLeod was known as a guy who may have ceiling issues before the draft and those are coming to light. Brown was known as a guy that had drive issues and still does (also had injury issues too). Kunin tore his ACL. But all 3 have the clock starting to tick. Here is the thing though, Jost was rushed by the Avs no doubt... but he should still be able to find a way to play good hockey at the AHL level. He now as 8 games at that level and has 2 points. Kunin is a .75 ppg player there. Brown is in his first AHL season and at .64 points per game... and flat out great since mid December (maybe he is figuring it out). Nylander is on the verge of setting a career high in points in far less games (and also getting a ton of heat) this season. This is a pot calling the kettle black... those players just weren't rushed. That doesn't mean because Jost already has a season under his belt that he is better than those players.

I'm just trying to add some context is all and trying to give Jost more of a fair shot than fans who are upset a 20 yo kid who was rushed isn't an all star by now.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I'm just trying to add some context is all and trying to give Jost more of a fair shot than fans who are upset a 20 yo kid who was rushed isn't an all star by now.

People aren’t upset he isn’t an all star. We’re upset that he’s basically useless out there for most shifts. And yes part of that is on the Avalanche.

 

[Meeqs]

People aren’t upset he isn’t an all star. We’re upset that he’s basically useless out there for most shifts. And yes part of that is on the Avalanche.

I get where people are coming from, I just don't think they have been too realistic and not sure I fully agree.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I get where people are coming from, I just don't think they have been too realistic and not sure I fully agree.

I’ve said my piece about the organization basically setting him up to fail. Doesn’t change the fact that having some expectations for him isn’t completely unreasonable.

 

[Muffin]

I predict Greer will get traded at the deadline for another prospect. Board will have another melt down. Just like when Nigel Williams, Colby Cohen, Cameron Gaunce and Kyle Wood got traded.

 

[Metallo]

Proof that draft picks alone don't solve anything.

Yes, you also need drafting skill.

 

[Meeqs]

I’ve said my piece about the organization basically setting him up to fail. Doesn’t change the fact that having some expectations for him isn’t completely unreasonable.

For sure, I think we're in agreement but not all fans have been as sensible about the topic as you.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Its interesting your dream scenario is getting a winger with the pick instead of a 1b center. Do you feel Kaut is only a 3rd line winger? Is that better than Kaut/Cozens or Hughes/Stone?

Not leaning one way or the other just an interesting conversation imo. KK is obviously a better player than Cozens, but getting a Center this year allows the Avs to do a lot more.

With how our roster is setup, having a giant 2nd line that can just wear down opposing defenders would be extremely beneficial. I'd argue Kakko-Hayes is considerably better than Kaut-Cozens, and since my dream scenario includes signing Stone, yea, Kakko-Hayes-Stone is better than Hughes-Stone.

 

[Meeqs]

I predict Greer will get traded at the deadline for another prospect. Board will have another melt down. Just like when Nigel Williams, Colby Cohen, Cameron Gaunce and Kyle Wood got traded.

While I think Greer has actual NHL potential unlike those you've mentioned above it wouldn't shock me. He is running out of opportunities here and would still be valuable to another org. I like the kid a lot too.

 

[The Abusement Park]

For sure, I think we're in agreement but not all fans have been as sensible about the topic as you.

You’re making me blush stop.

 

[Ivan13]

With how our roster is setup, having a giant 2nd line that can just wear down opposing defenders would be extremely beneficial. I'd argue Kakko-Hayes is considerably better than Kaut-Cozens, and since my dream scenario includes signing Stone, yea, Kakko-Hayes-Stone is better than Hughes-Stone.

With how we’re doing the 2nd line will be Kakko-Hughes-Stone.

 

[Meeqs]

With how our roster is setup, having a giant 2nd line that can just wear down opposing defenders would be extremely beneficial. I'd argue Kakko-Hayes is considerably better than Kaut-Cozens, and since my dream scenario includes signing Stone, yea, Kakko-Hayes-Stone is better than Hughes-Stone.

I mean in both cases you could sign Hayes as well, I just feel like if you get KK there is no chance you sign Stone already having Kaut. If you draft a C instead they could stay on the wing on the 2nd line for 2 years to develop and then shift Hayes down to 3c while the kid takes over 2c and you don't accidentally over saturate a wing position with inefficient UFA deals.

I was mostly curious as given the current roster dynamic not many fans are hoping to draft a wing over a C already having Mikko and Kaut in the org.

 

[Meeqs]

You’re making me blush stop.

I am very smooth *slips on floor, hits head on table*