Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 18-19 part XVII| Are We Sellers?

[Balthazar]

If it’s any consolation it’s not pronounced like that either

Francouz pronunciation: How to pronounce Francouz in Czech

Franz-saus? IDK how to spell that.

 

[Ivan13]

Francouz pronunciation: How to pronounce Francouz in Czech

Edit: franz-saus

Yes as she says (albeit in a really low pitch) there’s a subtle Z at the end. Not sue.

Us lot and the Czech pronounce it virtually the same, they just hit the ou part a bit harder. Word means Frenchman in both languages.

 

[henchman21]

Yeah, I mean when I say elite for the guys I listed I meant at the time of their cup winnings, not currently.

You have to be insanely stacked to win without having that Vezina calibre goaltender, or have generational, HOF talent on your roster (Crosby/Malkin).

I'd say you have to be stacked to win any Cup.

I really don't think you need an elite or top 5-7 goalie to win a Cup. You need a goalie that isn't going to lose more than a game or two due to their play during the run, and can steal a game or two. I believe there are ~15+ goalies that can do that. If given the choice you'd love a top end guy... I just don't think it is needed.

 

[Hasbro]

Yeah, forget about EK. In my opinion, he will look for a team that is solidified as a clear contender and probably in a more desirable market. Could see an extension with the Sharks or TBL make space for him

Screw that. This off season is the time to start thinking big.

 

[Foppberg]

I'd say you have to be stacked to win any Cup.

I really don't think you need an elite or top 5-7 goalie to win a Cup. You need a goalie that isn't going to lose more than a game or two due to their play during the run, and can steal a game or two. I believe there are ~15+ goalies that can do that. If given the choice you'd love a top end guy... I just don't think it is needed.

Well I wouldn't say Washington, Pittsburghs last two cup wins, or even LA were that stacked. At least not to the level of 2010 Chicago or 2000s Red Wings.

I think the league is trending in the direction of what you're talking about, but I have yet to see a team win that doesn't have either an elite goaltender, or HOF superstar talent to play a style that makes up for it, in the cap era.

If Toronto, Calgary, or even Winnipeg/Nashville can win it all this year, then I would start to agree. But right now I haven't seen it since the cap era began.

 

[hooverdam]

A lot of goalies are capable of getting hot at the right time, and as long as they don't lose you games in the meantime, they're fine. Ideally, you want someone whose lows aren't that low, even if their highs aren't usually that high. Still think that can be Grubauer, and some poor performances mixed in with good ones haven't convinced me otherwise yet, but we'll see.

 

[henchman21]

Well I wouldn't say Washington, Pittsburghs last two cup wins, or even LA were that stacked. At least not to the level of 2010 Chicago.

I think the league is trending in the direction of what you're talking about, but I have yet to see a team win that doesn't have either an elite goaltender, or HOF superstar talent to play a style that makes up for it, in the cap era.

I don't think you'll find more than a few teams to ever win a Cup without some HOF level talent. To me that is completely necessary with or without a quality goalie.

 

[Meeqs]

EK is 28, not 38... He's a borderline generational talent. Every team in the league would kill to have him.

The difference lies between good and optimal as the NHL is a game of contract efficiency due to the hard cap and diminishing returns due to depth and ice time.

EK is far more valuable to a team like Ott/Det/etc who needs D than the Avs who are quite deep at the position. Same goes for 11m+ in cap spent on a position of need like Center is far more useful for the Avs than 11m+ on a position of strength like Defense.

Cup winners build through the draft and win through Depth down the middle, not through UFA. The Avs have more than enough skill on the backend, its up front they need to grow and with the 2 1sts this year they may get all the talent they need, in which case the focus will be keeping them all together like with what Tor is going through, and signing players too old for the window of the team for positions you don't need to more money than they are worth goes against that goal on multiple levels.

The NHL isn't the NBA where its just get as many good players in UFA that you can and build a super team. Its far more nuanced and complicated than simply this player is really good.

 

[Foppberg]

I don't think you'll find more than a few teams to ever win a Cup without some HOF level talent. To me that is completely necessary with or without a quality goalie.

Yeah, that's true.

But I mean Washington has Ovi, LA had Doughty/Quick/Kopi, Boston had Chara, Chicago had Toews/Kane/Keith, and you can argue whether some of those guys are HOF worthy, but none of those teams and none in the cap era have had 2 superstars of the calibre of Sid/Malkin. A top 10 player of all time and top 20-30(?) all time, it's a massive luxury to have and makes things way easier when trying to build a team.

The difference lies between good and optimal as the NHL is a game of contract efficiency due to the hard cap and diminishing returns due to depth and ice time.

EK is far more valuable to a team like Ott/Det/etc who needs D than the Avs who are quite deep at the position. Same goes for 11m+ in cap spent on a position of need like Center is far more useful for the Avs than 11m+ on a position of strength like Defense.

Cup winners build through the draft and win through Depth down the middle, not through UFA. The Avs have more than enough skill on the backend, its up front they need to grow and with the 2 1sts this year they may get all the talent they need, in which case the focus will be keeping them all together like with what Tor is going through, and signing players too old for the window of the team for positions you don't need to more money than they are worth goes against that goal on multiple levels.

The NHL isn't the NBA where its just get as many good players in UFA that you can and build a super team. Its far more nuanced and complicated than simply this player is really good.

Eh, I really don't think we're that deep on D. A regressing EJ, Z not being what we all hoped (so far), Girard hitting a bit of a wall, Timmins hurt, the uncertainty with Barrie.. I don't see that much depth. There's potential for it if all our young guys hit their potential, but it's not there right now. So if we could get a legit #1D locked up, something we've lacked since Bourque retired, you jump at that. And if all our guys end up hitting their potential and we have an abundance of riches at D, then you trade someone off for some forward help.

And I mostly agree with the built through the draft part, but smart UFA moves can certainly be the difference. Hossa, Chara, Savard, Campbell, Gonchar..

 

[Hasbro]

Some armchair psychology on Sakic: the Duchene trade instantly changed his reputation as a GM and validated his decisions to stand firm on Roy and Duchene. The Ottawa pick appreciating in value only makes him look better. No way he’s going to lay up on what could be a career defining deal.

 

[Meeqs]

There isn't a strong correlation between the best goaltenders and the best teams in terms of playoff success. However there is a stronger correlation with the best defensive teams and playoff success and like with Holtby, Rinne or Jones, we have seen average goaltenders become great when playing behind a deep and strong blueline.

You do need a goalie that is good enough, but the smarter investment is to have the best group of skaters in front of them and if possible and 2 guys you can rely on. Its also the same reason why teams don't want to spend huge amounts of Cap on a goalie. I can think of really only 1 case and that's The King

 

[Ivan13]

D is not a position of strenght. We have one guy who is declining, one guy who we have no idea what he’ll give you on any given night, an amazing offensive D who can struggle defensively, a vet better served for #5 than top 4, a few guys that are passable third pairing Ds in a pinch and a bunch of question marks that can develop into franchise Ds or run of the mill 2nd pairing guys. If Joe doesn’t even inquire he should be fired on the spot.

 

[Meeqs]

Some armchair psychology on Sakic: the Duchene trade instantly changed his reputation as a GM and validated his decisions to stand firm on Roy and Duchene. The Ottawa pick appreciating in value only makes him look better. No way he’s going to lay up on what could be a career defining deal.

99% of fans and media don't have a clue how to properly evaluate the GM position and often times they just label them by the teams record which is asinine. Both Charelli and Dorion were up for GM of the year recently and that should tell you all you need to know about how much public perception matters.

Sakic has always been a great GM and while there is still some room for improvement like the Dev side for example but we are very lucky to have him. He's up there with the best

 

[McMetal]

I'm sure Sakic will kick the tires on EK65, but I'm not going to pin my hopes on him on July 1st. We'll be one of the few teams with the cap space to sign him, but I don't think we make the final cut in the end.

 

[Meeqs]

D is not a position of strenght. We have one guy who is declining, one guy who we have no idea what he’ll give you on any given night, an amazing offensive D who can struggle defensively, a vet better served for #5 than top 4, a few guys that are passable third pairing Ds in a pinch and a bunch of question marks that can develop into franchise Ds or run of the mill 2nd pairing guys. If Joe doesn’t even inquire he should be fired on the spot.

We have one of the best young groups of D cores in the NHL. They are still growing and it will take time but it is certainly a strength. Just like when Nate was still developing, he wasn't there yet but the potential was, just too time to let him get there.

At the start of next season with both Makar and Timmins on the roster it will be night and day.

Doing nothing on UFA day is always a good thing, always. A majority of the decisions are mistakes and the signings rarely change the fate of a team.

 

[henchman21]

Yeah, that's true.

But I mean Washington has Ovi, LA had Doughty/Quick/Kopi, Boston had Chara, Chicago had Toews/Kane/Keith, and you can argue whether some of those guys are HOF worthy, but none of those teams and none in the cap era have had 2 superstars of the calibre of Sid/Malkin. A top 10 player of all time and top 20-30(?) all time, it's a massive luxury to have and makes things way easier when trying to build a team.

Boston had Bergeron too. I think Crosby and Malkin really allowed the defense to be subpar... those two, when needed, could control 2 out of every 3 shifts and end up on top of the play. Then you throw Phil in there as a 3rd line punch guy ES and you have 2 lines that can dominate and one that is positive and facing bottom pairing/tired defenders. About as perfect of a storm as can be for them. I'd love a top 5 level goalie here, but I just don't see it ahead of settling the 2nd line and #1D issues this team has. If those don't get solved, I don't see the Avs needing that level of goalie anyway as they just won't be good enough.

 

[Foppberg]

Boston had Bergeron too. I think Crosby and Malkin really allowed the defense to be subpar... those two, when needed, could control 2 out of every 3 shifts and end up on top of the play. Then you throw Phil in there as a 3rd line punch guy ES and you have 2 lines that can dominate and one that is positive and facing bottom pairing/tired defenders. About as perfect of a storm as can be for them. I'd love a top 5 level goalie here, but I just don't see it ahead of settling the 2nd line and #1D issues this team has. If those don't get solved, I don't see the Avs needing that level of goalie anyway as they just won't be good enough.

Yeah I can agree with that. Priority should be fixing the forward depth + top pairing, what we have in goal has potential to be good enough if we can fix the formers.

Although I'm not super convinced, I have more faith in Frank than I do Grubauer. For me I see Grubs as an Elliott type.

 

[LTC Pain]

He has an ego and acted like a dictator in the room in Ottawa. Didn't want to practice.

Link please!

 

[Ivan13]

We have one of the best young groups of D cores in the NHL. They are still growing and it will take time but it is certainly a strength. Just like when Nate was still developing, he wasn't there yet but the potential was, just too time to let him get there.

At the start of next season with both Makar and Timmins on the roster it will be night and day.

It most assuredly is not a strenght. We have no idea how Makar will translate, let alone Timmins who will effectively miss an entire year of development. He may end up like Bergeron, or like Savard, no one knows and making decisions based on what those two might become in best case scenario is foolish. Furthermore, there isn’t a single team in the league that couldn’t use EK.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

People are wildly blinded by the fact that we don’t have a top pairing D.

Makar is an elite prospect, but man it’s a lot to expect him to eventually be what everyone here is hoping. Girard is there too of course and still should grow a lot but it’s nowhere near a certainty.

We have a good group of defenseman. But none of them are top pairing right now besides Barrie when he’s at his best but he’s been very inconsistent this year and ideally is never facing top matchups.

 

[Foppberg]

Honestly, as much as I love the Duchene trade, unless that Ottawa pick becomes Hughes/Kakko, I would've preferred the rumoured "Chabot + Zib" package back when Roy was still around.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Honestly, as much as I love the Duchene trade, unless that Ottawa pick becomes Hughes/Kakko, I would've preferred the rumoured "Chabot + Zib" package back when Roy was still around.

As great as that sounds, people need to realize it was an HFBoards rumor. It’s a rumor that never ever came close to being mentioned by any of the reputable people in the business who have careers specifically made of reporting on such rumors.

There’s always a chance of some inside information grtting slipped to the right guy (see Varly’s contract extension) but I have a hard time believing posters on an Internet forum knew every single detail about the actuals of an NHL trade and not a single hockey insider had heard a single hint about it.

 

[Foppberg]

As great as that sounds, people need to realize it was an HFBoards rumor. It’s a rumor that never ever came close to being mentioned by any of the reputable people in the business who have careers specifically made of reporting on such rumors.

There’s always a chance of some inside information grtting slipped to the right guy (see Varly’s contract extension) but I have a hard time believing posters on an Internet forum knew every single detail about the actuals of an NHL trade and not a single hockey insider had heard a single hint about it.

Really? I thought it had some legit legs to it not just an HFB one.

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

People are wildly blinded by the fact that we don’t have a top pairing D.

Makar is an elite prospect, but man it’s a lot to expect him to eventually be what everyone here is hoping. Girard is there too of course and still should grow a lot but it’s nowhere near a certainty.

We have a good group of defenseman. But none of them are top pairing right now besides Barrie when he’s at his best but he’s been very inconsistent this year and ideally is never facing top matchups.

That's the harsh truth. Not that the Avs don't have a #1. They don't even have a #2. EJ has regressed hard.

Girard has hit a wall and will always have some limitations. Barrie also has huge flaws. Zadorov can play like a top pairing shut down D. But more often plays like an average #4.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Really? I thought it had some legit legs to it not just an HFB one.

I’ve never seen a source for it. Perhaps I missed it but I was pretty sure it was an HF rumor.