Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 18-19 part XII| Witty Title

[5280]

All the Barrie supporters keep mentioning the substantial offensive loss, but they ignore some of the pedigree of the possible alternatives.

Consider their Junior careers on the basis of their drafted year.

• Girard - 67 Games @ 74 points (QMJHL 2015/16);
• Makar - 54 Games @ 75 points (AJHL 2016/17);
• Timmins - 67 Games @ 61 Points (OHL 2016/17);
• Meloche - 44 Games @ 34 Points (QMJHL 2014/15)

• Barrie - 68 Games @ 52 Points (WHL 2008/09)

Barrie had a stellar WHL career and struggled in the AHL. This might not be definitive of being a future NHL star, but the evidence can be a yardstick of their potential.

Supporters of Barrie ignores that each of the 4 prospects already better defensively. Only 1 of 4 need to be comparable to his offensive output to justify a move. This doesn't even include the players in return for Barrie and 2019 Draft.

So a replacement is within reach and the odds of replacing Barrie with this surplus of DMen can be justify to improve the team.

While I'm more on the we will eventually need to trade Barrie side, I do believe that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. There is a remote chance that none of those dudes will pan out, you never know. I don't think it is prudent to just automatically pencil those dudes into an NHL position. You never know how a player's game is going to translate to the NHL or that they won't get injured and have it derail their career. I think we really should figure out more how their games will translate before getting rid of someone of Barrie's caliber.

We can't just keep perpetually rebuilding. The best return we can get for Barrie is a futures package right now and I'm not sure that is a great idea considering Mack's window will only be open so long.

It's a tricky situation which is why it's so polarizing.

 

[dahrougem2]

.69 PPG in the AHL is struggling? And junior stats don't equate to much. Different leagues have different scoring rates. Points don't equate to potential. Stefan Elliott had similar numbers to Barrie in the same year and ended up sucking as a pro. He didn't become as good. Duncan Siemens had a .60 ppg game in his draft year and has no offensive skill at the professional level. Skill sets matter.

No, no, Duncan Siemens had a .60 ppg in junior AND is better than Tyson Barrie defensively. Why didn't we qualify Siemens and pay him long term big bucks? We done messed up.

 

[The Abusement Park]

All the Barrie supporters keep mentioning the substantial offensive loss, but they ignore some of the pedigree of the possible alternatives.

Consider their Junior careers on the basis of their drafted year.

• Girard - 67 Games @ 74 points (QMJHL 2015/16);
• Makar - 54 Games @ 75 points (AJHL 2016/17);
• Timmins - 67 Games @ 61 Points (OHL 2016/17);
• Meloche - 44 Games @ 34 Points (QMJHL 2014/15)

• Barrie - 68 Games @ 52 Points (WHL 2008/09)

Barrie had a stellar WHL career and struggled in the AHL. This might not be definitive of being a future NHL star, but the evidence can be a yardstick of their potential.

Supporters of Barrie ignores that each of the 4 prospects already better defensively. Only 1 of 4 need to be comparable to his offensive output to justify a move. This doesn't even include the players in return for Barrie and 2019 Draft.

So a replacement is within reach and the odds of replacing Barrie with this surplus of DMen can be justify to improve the team.

Rob Shremp has like the 8th highest scoring season on OHL history. Guess how long his NHL career was?

 

[EdAVSfan]

Other main factors about the prospects is we don’t even know which side they’ll be playing on.

What happens if Makar is far more effective on the left? Or same for Timmins. I’ve seen several projections on here putting them on the left side.

That’s why you wait til someone forces your hand.
Wait til your pawns are all in their right spots before moving forward. It’s too risky with where we are and Mack’s window to do otherwise.

 

[Ivan13]

Bald people aren't people

Screw you random stranger on the internet!!!!!

 

[S E P H]

What the hell did I stumble into? I was about to post the walking in-n-out gif from The Simpons, but I actually feel the bite.

First off, LOL at anybody saying that Barrie is better than EJ.

Yeah. I love EJ. But he’s never put up 40 points. And his career puts him at a 30ish point player.

And Barrie is constantly forced to be the top dman when EJ goes down. That’s why his ES minutes are so high. He’s constantly used like a top pairing guy here.

Who says that points are everything when determining how good a defender is, really weak argument here...

Just wait 'till the games actually start and he hits a rut or goes on an insane run. Ditto for Varly.

Well, Barrie has never been decent defencively like ever. He is the Dallas Stars of defencemen where his best defense is playing offence, but it's not something for long-term success. When his pros outweigh his cons, I will praise him, when it's the opposite I will be negative towards him - I've always kept this type of philosophy.

I can't wait for Barrie to sign a long term contract here and watch certain people lose their minds.

I would like to sign Barrie for a long-term contract, but he doesn't strike me as a bloke who will want to take any discount here. Not saying he is entitled to take a discount nor do the Avs need for him to take a discount, but all we have is history and Tyson took it all the way before training camp to get a deal. He can easily become Nylander 2.0 a couple years down the line.

 

[Ivan13]

Other main factors about the prospects is we don’t even know which side they’ll be playing on.

What happens if Makar is far more effective on the left? Or same for Timmins. I’ve seen several projections on here putting them on the left side.

That’s why you wait til someone forces your hand.
Wait til your pawns are all in their right spots before moving forward. It’s too risky with where we are and Mack’s window to do otherwise.

You know what's funny, Makar is indeed better on the left, but the people arguing we should trade Ty probably have no idea about this and keep posting the same "we have too mang RHDs!" nonsense over and over.

 

[Foppa Frossa]

Hey something to actually talk about that is relevant.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Trade him now while we know what his value is!

 

[5280]

Other main factors about the prospects is we don’t even know which side they’ll be playing on.

What happens if Makar is far more effective on the left? Or same for Timmins. I’ve seen several projections on here putting them on the left side.

That’s why you wait til someone forces your hand.
Wait til your pawns are all in their right spots before moving forward. It’s too risky with where we are and Mack’s window to do otherwise.

Yeah, this is the right way to go about things.

 

[Foppberg]

Hey something to actually talk about that is relevant.

So Dater says bridge, Sakic says he'll be here for a long time. Who to believe...

 

[forsbergavs32]

So with Dater weighing in, we should expect an 8 year extension?

 

[Ivan13]

Trade him now while we know what his value is!

He will be a problem child! Why not take a longterm deal? He hates Joe and Colorado!

 

[Pokecheque]

Well, Barrie has never been decent defencively like ever. He is the Dallas Stars of defencemen where his best defense is playing offence, but it's not something for long-term success. When his pros outweigh his cons, I will praise him, when it's the opposite I will be negative towards him - I've always kept this type of philosophy.

That's fine, I don't think he's good defensively either. In fact I almost feel he took a step back defensively, played the D-zone kinda soft to be honest. But his play is still at a point IMO where his play with the puck offsets his play without it.

I don't think he should be exempt from criticism by any means. I just think there'll be a lunatic fringe in Avs fandom that want him gone no matter what, and they'll either say "Trade him, he sucks" when he hits a slump, or "Trade him while his value is high!" when he's on a hot streak. I'd just love for that discussion to wait until next season at least, but I know it won't.

 

[lonelybadger]

Wants to wait until they get that seattle expansion money (and probably waiting for Nylander's number to come in).

Rantanen is the one player no signed long term I do not mind overspending by 1 million on.

 

[EdAVSfan]

What the hell did I stumble into? I was about to post the walking in-n-out gif from The Simpons, but I actually feel the bite.

First off, LOL at anybody saying that Barrie is better than EJ.
Who says that points are everything when determining how good a defender is, really weak argument here...

Sorry SEPH, but you seem to have me confused with other posters. You’ve also taken a small snippet of a back and forth conversation I had with Waingro and took it out of context.

I was merely discussing his assertion that EJ was a 40 point defender. At no point did I compare the two by saying who is better. And at no point did I suggest or imply that “points are everything when determining how good a defender is”.

No reason to take that paragraph out of context.

 

[dahrougem2]

Dater predicts a bridge which means we can almost certainly say Mikko will sign an 8-year deal lol

 

[agentblack]

Wants to wait until they get that seattle expansion money (and probably waiting for Nylander's number to come in).

Rantanen is the one player no signed long term I do not mind overspending by 1 million on.

That’s what I was thinking too, Nylander prb should do a bridge and cash in later, I don’t think he’s gonna get the coin he wants now

 

[dahrougem2]

That’s what I was thinking too, Nylander prb should do a bridge and cash in later, I don’t think he’s gonna get the coin he wants now

If Nylander does a bridge, he has a chance to cash in later but it won't be in Toronto, that's for sure.

 

[S E P H]

Sorry SEPH, but you seem to have me confused with other posters. You’ve also taken a small snippet of a back and forth conversation I had with Waingro and took it out of context.

I was merely discussing his assertion that EJ was a 40 point defender. At no point did I compare the two by saying who is better. And at no point did I suggest or imply that “points are everything when determining how good a defender is”.

No reason to take that paragraph out of context.

My apologies, but EJ providing a 40 point season and the defencive accolades provides much more to the team than Barrie's three-stooges 60 point campaign.

 

[EdAVSfan]

My apologies, but EJ providing a 40 point season and the defencive accolades provides much more to the team than Barrie's three-stooges 60 point campaign.

I don’t disagree. Never have.

I’m also of the opinion of holding onto all the good dmen we have, rather than the rush to move one.

EJ and Barrie are different. They provide different strengths to the team. Strengths that every team wants. There’s really very little reason right now to choose between them until a prospect forces you to decide.

 

[S E P H]

I don’t disagree. Never have.

I’m also of the opinion of holding onto all the good dmen we have, rather than the rush to move one.

EJ and Barrie are different. They provide different strengths to the team. Strengths that every team wants. There’s really very little reason right now to choose between them until a prospect forces you to decide.

I am not wanting to trade Barrie either. There might come a time and point to trade him if Makar and Timmins develop to the best of their abilities, but it's definitely not today nor tomorrow nor the day after that. The Seattle expansion draft might accelerate this discussion though...

 

[henchman21]

My apologies, but EJ providing a 40 point season and the defencive accolades provides much more to the team than Barrie's three-stooges 60 point campaign.

It is a bit of semantics, but EJ has never produced a 40 point season (nor Barrie 60) there have been averages that point to it having been able to happen before. With EJ though, they point much more to a 30 point defender than a 40. 10 points doesn't sound like a lot, but only 30 defensemen scored 40 points last season... another 27 scored between 30 and 40 (EJ not being one of them). The difference between 30 and 40 points as a defensemen is similar to the difference between a 50 point forward and a 65 point forward. They are completely different levels of scorers. If EJ was a legit, consistent 40 point defensemen, he'd very clearly and no debate be a #1D in the league.

 

[dahrougem2]

My apologies, but EJ providing a 40 point season and the defencive accolades provides much more to the team than Barrie's three-stooges 60 point campaign.

Erik Johnson hasn't put up more than 30 points since 2013-2014, and he's never once hit 40+. He has hit 39 twice, but EJ is no 40 point defensemen.

 

[McMetal]

I'm not sure how I would feel about Mikko wanting a bridge. It's hard to imagine him getting that much better after his breakout last season. I get that a lot can change and it is Dater but that seems like an odd course to take for both parties.