Post-Game Talk: Avs hockey: 10 minutes of actual work.

[ChibiPooky]

So, some post-game notes.

1) The Oilers have a ****ing TON of skill up front. No size at all. However, those tiny forwards started to bully the Avs toward the end of the game.

2) EJ has amazing offensive instincts. He's also a good defenseman. That slash late in the game was unacceptable for a team leader, gamebreaker, and top player.

3) The Avs miss Landeskog's speed a LOT.

4) No board on Parenteau? Oilers got the calls, but Avs didn't play well enough to win even if all the calls went their way

5) Duchene does a lot of the same moves I do. It works against D league players. NHLers?...

6) If the Avs could put up anything remotely close to '90s Devils defense, it'd be a shutout every game. Varlamov looks that good.

7) The wingers can't clear the zone. D is getting the puck up there, but it is coming back far too much of the time. Maybe use the center more in the breakout? Don't think I saw them attempt the center pass once

8) Keep in mind that this is the only game I've seen this season and it may not be representative of their body of work

Yo.

 

[Rhaego]

I think Barrie should get a shot. Sure he makes some defensive mistakes, but at least he can gain the blue line and pass the puck. He is much more skilled than most of our defenders.

Sure as hell does more than O'Brien

 

[bohlmeister]

To me PAP has been surprisingly decent.

I think he has been good to. He has more grit than I expected. And he has taken advantage of his chances.

 

[Avs_19]

I think he has been good to. He has more grit than I expected. And he has taken advantage of his chances.

Agreed, he has been good. A lot better than Stastny.

 

[ChibiPooky]

He has to be better than Shane O'Brien.

Oh yeah, additional note - Shane O'Brien had a BRUTAL turnover, I forget when, but it was so bad I was like "WHO THE **** IS THAT" and sure enough. He also didn't do any of the things he does well. I wonder if it's coaching (i.e. "DON'T DO THAT") or idiocy ("I can totally do this!" ... goal the other way)

 

[ChibiPooky]

To me PAP has been surprisingly decent.

Tonight he wasn't, at least not to my eyes. He had the goal, sure, but even then he was in poor position behind the goal line. He was weak on the puck, nonexistent on the forecheck, and really never appeared to be in a position to drive the play. When you bring a guy on for $4M for his assists, you (well at least I) expect him to be a catalyst for the offense. Tonight he wasn't.

 

[Pokecheque]

That was pathetic.

What the hell is their obsession with Hunwick? He got the most PP time and he was only behind EJ for SH ice time. That should NEVER happen. Sacco and whoever is in charge of special teams are complete morons. Hunwick on the top PP unit? Duchene at the point on the PP where he is awful? EJ not on the ice at all? WTF?

I've been saying all along that O'Brien should be in the line-up. Oh boy. He was a disaster all game long. His first game of the season but I was wrong on that one.

Never been a big fan of Wilson and once again he did nothing to change my mind. His effort on the empty net goal just summed up his night perfectly. At least try to get back and prevent the goal. I know he's nothing more than a third pairing defenseman and he's being asked to do too much but a little bit of effort there would be nice.

People will still defend him and make excuses but what another pathetic performance by Stastny. Complete no show once again. He is actually the 22nd highest paid forward in the league and 13th highest paid center. Sure all he did was just accept the idiotic contract FG gave him but he hasn't even come close to living up to it and when you're getting paid like that, you better produce. I'd rather give O'Reilly $6.6M/yr because at least when he's not scoring, he's doing a lot of other things to help the team. Stastny is doing NOTHING to help the team right now.

It is because, like it or not, he's putting forth the best effort right now. It's a terrible defense, possibly the worst in the league. Honestly, I challenge anyone to find me a defense that's worse than this one. I'd even place Toronto's and Florida's above ours. Hell, I'd even place New Jersey's without Larsson above ours. Hunwick is getting rewarded because he's one of the better defensemen on a crap defensive squad.

Honestly, on a talent standpoint, I don't think it's the worst defense in the league. But where other defenses have a mix of different types of blueliners, the Avs seem content with a bunch of slow, lumbering guys with limited or no puck skill. Hejda, Wilson, O'Byrne, O'Brien, and Zanon are completely redundant.

I have never, ever been so frustrated with a Denver sports franchise. And yes, that's counting the clown show currently running the Rockies. It's not even incompetence that's the main culprit, rather tight purse strings and an obstinate, overly insular organizational culture that values loyalty and secrecy over everything else.

 

[ChibiPooky]

Agreed, he has been good. A lot better than Stastny.

Stastny looks like he has Ovechkin syndrome. Whatever that is... he just looks like he isn't invested in playing hockey.

 

[ChibiPooky]

It is because, like it or not, he's putting forth the best effort right now. It's a terrible defense, possibly the worst in the league. Honestly, I challenge anyone to find me a defense that's worse than this one. I'd even place Toronto's and Florida's above ours. Hell, I'd even place New Jersey's without Larsson above ours. Hunwick is getting rewarded because he's one of the better defensemen on a crap defensive squad.

Honestly, on a talent standpoint, I don't think it's the worst defense in the league. But where other defenses have a mix of different types of blueliners, the Avs seem content with a bunch of slow, lumbering guys with limited or no puck skill. Hejda, Wilson, O'Byrne, O'Brien, and Zanon are completely redundant.

I have never, ever been so frustrated with a Denver sports franchise. And yes, that's counting the clown show currently running the Rockies. It's not even incompetence that's the main culprit, rather tight purse strings and an obstinate, overly insular organizational culture that values loyalty and secrecy over everything else.

I won't dispute most of your points, but I thought Hunwick played a good game tonight. If you're basing it on tonight's performance, I'd say you're not being fair either to Hunwick, who played above his expectations, or to the rest of the Avs D, who certainly played below expectation but not to the point you make it seem.

 

[chewey]

So, some post-game notes.

1) The Oilers have a ****ing TON of skill up front. No size at all. However, those tiny forwards started to bully the Avs toward the end of the game.

2) EJ has amazing offensive instincts. He's also a good defenseman. That slash late in the game was unacceptable for a team leader, gamebreaker, and top player.

3) The Avs miss Landeskog's speed a LOT.

4) No board on Parenteau? Oilers got the calls, but Avs didn't play well enough to win even if all the calls went their way

5) Duchene does a lot of the same moves I do. It works against D league players. NHLers?...

6) If the Avs could put up anything remotely close to '90s Devils defense, it'd be a shutout every game. Varlamov looks that good.

7) The wingers can't clear the zone. D is getting the puck up there, but it is coming back far too much of the time. Maybe use the center more in the breakout? Don't think I saw them attempt the center pass once

8) Keep in mind that this is the only game I've seen this season and it may not be representative of their body of work

Yo.

I love you. I am glad the Varly trade brought you to our board.

Also for PAPi. He hasn't looked great in my eyes either but its been 4 ****ing games. He'll take some time on our team. I won't start worrying about him till the 20 game point. Thats when I expect to see improvement. If by the 40 game point he still looks bad then I'll reseve my judgement till then.

 

[Freudian]

Out of the ~15 games I've seen this year, this was by far the worst. Edmonton played very poorly. Even their PP, which had four goals, wasn't good and they didn't do much in even strength. Avs were by far the worst team. The first two periods were AHL quality. Non-existant transition play, no teamwork and no effort.

The third period Edmonton looked like a team that didn't know how to defend a lead and Avs had a lot better effort but it was too little too late.

Both teams have a lot of work to do. Avs more than Edmonton. Oilers will get by on skill some nights. Avs won't, especially missing the players we currently do.

Hunwick was ok today and I think Zanon might be a useful defender for us.

 

[Pokecheque]

I won't dispute most of your points, but I thought Hunwick played a good game tonight. If you're basing it on tonight's performance, I'd say you're not being fair either to Hunwick, who played above his expectations, or to the rest of the Avs D, who certainly played below expectation but not to the point you make it seem.

It's not my intention to blame them for being a bad defensive squad...I'm not blaming these guys for being slow and not having any puck skill. It's not what they're built to do.

Those previous Avs teams were built upon a solid transition game a smallish, speedy defense that jumped into the play, which made them one of the better offensive clubs in the league for years despite the fact that they didn't have a ton of firepower up front. Yes, the big problem for those teams was shoddy goaltending and the fact that those smaller d-men got pushed around a lot in their own end. But instead of just addressing the problem, they went overboard and got rid of what made this team successful. Now instead of getting pinned in their own end because they were getting knocked off the puck too easily, they're getting pinned in their own end because they don't have the ability to control the play. At all.

I was defending Avs management earlier, but I've changed my stance. This Avs squad is the NHL equivalent of the Kyle Orton Broncos. Bad, one-dimensional, and worst of all, BORING. I get the fact you want to make your team bigger and tougher, but to sacrifice virtually everything that made you successful before is ridiculous. It also defeats the purpose of having these guys as placeholders for developing guys on the farm because frankly, they're not even doing a very good job of being placeholders.

So yeah, it's not meant as a diss on Hunwick or any of the other Avs defensemen. These guys would excel if put in a depth role somewhere else. But as it stands, they're being put into roles they were never cut out for, and the failure is readily apparent for anyone with half a brain.

 

[Avs_19]

Hunwick was ok today and I think Zanon might be a useful defender for us.

Decent at even strength but they're one of the reasons why our PK is so bad.

 

[benzino]

I fell asleep 30 mins before the game seems like I didn't miss anything...

 

[ChibiPooky]

It's not my intention to blame them for being a bad defensive squad...I'm not blaming these guys for being slow and not having any puck skill. It's not what they're built to do.

Those previous Avs teams were built upon a solid transition game a smallish, speedy defense that jumped into the play, which made them one of the better offensive clubs in the league for years despite the fact that they didn't have a ton of firepower up front. Yes, the big problem for those teams was shoddy goaltending and the fact that those smaller d-men got pushed around a lot in their own end. But instead of just addressing the problem, they went overboard and got rid of what made this team successful. Now instead of getting pinned in their own end because they were getting knocked off the puck too easily, they're getting pinned in their own end because they don't have the ability to control the play. At all.

I was defending Avs management earlier, but I've changed my stance. This Avs squad is the NHL equivalent of the Kyle Orton Broncos. Bad, one-dimensional, and worst of all, BORING. I get the fact you want to make your team bigger and tougher, but to sacrifice virtually everything that made you successful before is ridiculous. It also defeats the purpose of having these guys as placeholders for developing guys on the farm because frankly, they're not even doing a very good job of being placeholders.

So yeah, it's not meant as a diss on Hunwick or any of the other Avs defensemen. These guys would excel if put in a depth role somewhere else. But as it stands, they're being put into roles they were never cut out for, and the failure is readily apparent for anyone with half a brain.

I am hoping it's the first stage of a transition to a bigger, tougher team overall.

 

[ChibiPooky]

I fell asleep 30 mins before the game seems like I didn't miss anything...

It's hockey. You always miss something. In this case, you missed Hejduk blowing 3 golden chances on the same shift. If his hands have gone, it's over.

 

[ColoradoSportsFan]

I don't care if stazz gets traded and tears it up. He's not doing jack **** for the avs. He's stealing money every time he plays for the avs.

No way. In one form or another EVERYONE would care. The Stastny defenders (such as myself) would be sticking our tongues out saying "see this is why you don't trade him". Stastny haters would be pissy saying "woulda been nice if he did that here". And everyone else would be just pissed at Sherman and Sacco.

 

[Freudian]

It's hockey. You always miss something. In this case, you missed Hejduk blowing 3 golden chances on the same shift. If his hands have gone, it's over.

Hejduk hasn't had his normal shot in the last two three years. He always mostly used his wrists when shooting and I guess he can't generate the power he used to.

The only time he looks good shooting is on the shootout.

 

[Freudian]

Stastny has been inconsistent, but if McGinn and Jones had been sharper he would have five points in five games and no one would complain. Stastny needs his linemates to be able to score to look good and McGinn has hit 4-5 posts this far.

 

[Avelanche]

Decent at even strength but they're one of the reasons why our PK is so bad.

You mean has played badly, it's only two games and the team stunk in both games and in all areas. The PK will ultametly be fine and middle of the road once we stop playing a period short handed and everyone wakes up.

 

[Pokecheque]

I am hoping it's the first stage of a transition to a bigger, tougher team overall.

First stage!? Good God, what's stage two!? Are they going to dress the players in gorilla suits?

I don't think team toughness needs to be addressed anymore. They're big and tough enough. It's the ability to employ a puck possession game and pressure the opposition in all three zones that needs to be addressed now. And you do that with puck skill and team speed. The Avs are virtually bereft of both.

Having a big, tough team doesn't mean jack when you can't skate the puck out of your own zone, or make an outlet pass to break it up the ice, or sustain pressure in the offensive zone. Hell, this team isn't even fast enough anymore to get to the puck after endless dumps-and-chases.

 

[benzino]

It's hockey. You always miss something. In this case, you missed Hejduk blowing 3 golden chances on the same shift. If his hands have gone, it's over.

Ouch not surprising he is a shadow of himself it's actually rather painful to watch how players fade away once they reach a certain age.

 

[Rhaego]

Stastny has been inconsistent, but if McGinn and Jones had been sharper he would have five points in five games and no one would complain. Stastny needs his linemates to be able to score to look good and McGinn has hit 4-5 posts this far.

I don't know if Ginner and Jonesy are drunk the whole time or what?

 

[Nalens Oga]

Barrie got a shot and he wasn't that good. I haven't seen a LEM game since the beginning of the season but it's the wrong message if we just call him up again. Time to give another player like Cam Gaunce a shot.

Gaunce was fairly decent in his call-up. When he went down I assumed it was just to resume his development so I don't understand why he still hasn't been given a shot.

 

[bohlmeister]

Barrie got a shot and he wasn't that good. I haven't seen a LEM game since the beginning of the season but it's the wrong message if we just call him up again. Time to give another player like Cam Gaunce a shot.

Gaunce was fairly decent in his call-up. When he went down I assumed it was just to resume his development so I don't understand why he still hasn't been given a shot.

Gaunce is a defensive defenseman. We already have too many.