Post-Game Talk: Avs def. Canucks - 4-3 (OT) (Miller, Mikheyev, Zadorov) | Swear words.

[sting101]

Was at the game. A few observations

Looking at the shot attempts isn't a great marker for the Avs outplaying the Canucks. They certainly did from late 2nd on but with a 3-0 lead the Canucks were content to sit back and stay positionally sound. Probably would and should have worked with proper execution but as some mentioned poor turnovers and lack of strength on a bunch of pucks at critical spots resulted in extensive forays by the Avs to which they were left scrambling. Lindholm and Pettersson especially need to be better.

Kyle Rehman should not have a job in the NHL.

Manson from the opening face off was jawing and going at Miller. It was so incredibly obvious that elbow was predatory. Was an easy 5 and a game plus suspension it wasn't even his check he literally skated over to take a run at him. JT MIller is not some 4th line plugger. That was an egregious mistake and it continued with horrendous calls that directly influenced the Avs ability to get back into the game. Certainly expect ebbs and flows of calls from game to game but last night was insulting. You could also hear him yelling at Hughes who wanted an explanation on his pathetic call. Unprofessional junk he should have a hearing but we know he wont and if Tocchet or Myers or whoever says anything we know what were getting the next few games after....another lesson.

The Pettersson line was awful. Of all the great players on the ice he certainly was not in the same class last night which is disappointing given the opponent. Lindholm continues to be underwhelming and had a few huge mistakes in advancing pucks and coverage that were costly. Without JT Miller this team is not nearly the same.

You give a team like the Avs an opening and they will exploit it. Both the team and Refs gave them that opening which sucks but the team needs to be good enough that even with a few bad calls a 3-0 lead almost into the 3rd is a win. Not enough players pulling on the rope

 

[Lawzy]

I don't know what is more frustrating: watching the refs repeatedly butcher a good hockey game or watching the Canucks crumble under pressure when things don't go there way.

Embarrassing on multiple levels.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

I don't know what is more frustrating: watching the refs repeatedly butcher a good hockey game or watching the Canucks crumble under when things don't go there way.

Embarrassing on multiple levels.

Latter.

Team has been getting the short end of the stick on reffing for awhile.

As evidenced by their games against Vegas and the Jets, if they play their own game well enough, it shouldn't matter.

But it's extremely discouraging that the Minny game has started a trend of capitulation as soon as a couple things don't go according to plan.

They are going to have to deal with alot of shit in the playoffs so they need to sort it out quick.

 

[krutovsdonut]

there was some weirdly bad officiating there but bottom line is that terrible mental mistakes with seconds left in two periods cost us the game.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

I don't know what is more frustrating: watching the refs repeatedly butcher a good hockey game or watching the Canucks crumble under when things don't go there way.

Embarrassing on multiple levels.

this is where i need tocchet to pull his team aside and tell them, i pplayed on the FFfFfFing flyers. we had guys with more penalty minutes in a year than entire teams. but we still went to two finals and pushed gretzky and the oilers to game seven. this is the frame of mind you need to be in to power through that shit. (and then he tells them how to do it, which idfk and obviously neither do they)

 

[sting101]

We wont win anything with Pettersson playing like last night. That was terrible. Hope he was sick because of all the high paid players last night he was the worst by far.

With big money comes big responsibility. That was poo

 

[Bobby9]

We wont win anything with Pettersson playing like last night. That was terrible. Hope he was sick because of all the high paid players last night he was the worst by far.

With big money comes big responsibility. That was poo

8 more years baby

 

[Jyrki]

To cap off the night, Mason gets no discipline for, you know, headshotting Miller with an elbow against the boards. So two minutes for an opportunity to decapitate a player, or only two minutes because Miller didn't flop like MacKinnon did to draw the 5 on 3.

 

[Nick Lang]

Usually this is the part where I contradict everyone and say the refs were fine, but I can't even do that.

That was one of the worst officiated games in awhile. While you gotta make it out of the 2nd 3-0, Hughes interference call was horseshit plain and simple. Bad call. But most of the damage was down around the game management side which is NHL unspoken policy since I've been watching hockey. The refs I truly believe don't want to impact the game at all, but call it fair. I have no doubt, but what would you do if you get a memo that for all we know could say "Do this or lose your job."

I have to wonder if the score isn't what it is, Manson gets a heavier penalty. I have to wonder if the Cole stick on MacK (which Nate f***ing embellished, and you can't convince me of otherwise) gets called at all if the Avs aren't down 1. In fact, I'd go so far as to say there will be 1 fanbase in a very similar situation where they don't get the call in the playoffs.

It's bush league, and while the refs dispense, I think the blame falls to the league for these horseshit policies to drive interest in unfavourable hockey markets (who are struggling to stay in playoff races, not the sun belt teams hur dur). I don't think I would, but if I were betting on NHL I would take a hard second look at myself.

For the most part, we had them dead to rights and the refs opened the door for a good team to do what it does.

Yet another game where a portion of Canuck fans cry foul after playing like crap and blowing a lead. It's rather unbecoming. I had zero problem with the officiating. What I did have a problem with? The non focused play to give up a goal at the end of the second (poor), the dumb penalty by Petey (very poor), the player who had an an easy clear opportunity seconds before Petey got the penalty (ridiculously poor), yet decided to try to stickhandle out of the zone after being hemmed in for 1:30 seconds to start the 3rd (ultimately giving up a penalty in the first 2 minutes). These plays all sucked and should be called out for the crap they were, plus the unfortunate clear by Soucy.

Now the "embellishment" by Mackinnon, sure it was a little embellished but what the hell is Cole doing getting his stick in the hands there in the first place? Mack wasn't even facing the net, there was no danger there and he actually goes fishing in the hands not once but 2 or 3 times. Utterly stupid! I wasn't surprised to see a penalty on the play. These collection of boneheaded plays were well on their way to giving up the game at this point.

Not to mention the Avs still could have scored on the original penalty. We actually killed off the second penalty and then a horrific 3 minute effort on our heels gifted them the tying goal 5v5. That's all on the Canuck players.

I honestly have no clue how anyone can watch that game and blame anyone but the Canucks and their poor decision making for that collapse. I guess some fans really wanted to win this one.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

One thing i got out of this game, is that the Canucks can play at the Av's level..I dont think that they're a clear tier above the Canucks..The last two games against them could have gone either way.

 

[racerjoe]

I think people are making too much of the one game... and the fact they dropped back.

Not only do most teams in any sport do this when protecting a lead, but when your backup is in you tend to try and play even safer, and then grip the stick a bit tighter. I don't think we drop this game with Demko in net, and that isn't saying DeSmith played bad, just the team probably plays different in front of Demko.

 

[sting101]

8 more years baby

Still a wildly inconsistent player far too often which is frustrating. Do have a lot of concerns about how his body will hold up as well without getting some more meat on his bones.

When he's on he can be a top5 player but when off he struggles more than others who have the strength and possession abilities to at least hold pucks and make plays.

I'm a big fan but it's hard watching him be vanilla in big games when he also had a match up he should have been able to dominate while JT was tasked with MacKinnon Nuke and Rantanen.

Terrible...no way to sugar coat it

To cap off the night, Mason gets no discipline for, you know, headshotting Miller with an elbow against the boards. So two minutes for an opportunity to decapitate a player, or only two minutes because Miller didn't flop like MacKinnon did to draw the 5 on 3.

yes that's the thing because Miller is so competitive and a warrior Manson gets a free pass from a headshot that could have had Crosby type consequences to our #1C and top scorer.

Not only was it predatory it was pre meditated by the verbal and physical jousting that proceeded it. Was at the game and watching it unfold told my friend that Manson was gonna go after him and within seconds....

It's really hard to watch ticky tack plays get called with little direct scoring chances involved and then have basically a green light from the officials to attack and then head shot a teams best forward if all they are going to do is call a minor. NHL officiating is without a doubt a let down and embarrassment to the sport.

Saw that one coming from a mile away after Miller was lighting them up. For a league trying to protect from head shots that was a easy dunk and they failed.

 

[Lawzy]

Latter.

Team has been getting the short end of the stick on reffing for awhile.

As evidenced by their games against Vegas and the Jets, if they play their own game well enough, it shouldn't matter.

But it's extremely discouraging that the Minny game has started a trend of capitulation as soon as a couple things don't go according to plan.

They are going to have to deal with alot of shit in the playoffs so they need to sort it out quick.

Yeah they're showing poor mental fortitude of late and that's an alarming trend heading into the playoffs. Hopefully they're quick learners and are making up for the relative lack of pushback from teams in the first half.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Latter.

Team has been getting the short end of the stick on reffing for awhile.

As evidenced by their games against Vegas and the Jets, if they play their own game well enough, it shouldn't matter.

But it's extremely discouraging that the Minny game has started a trend of capitulation as soon as a couple things don't go according to plan.

They are going to have to deal with alot of shit in the playoffs so they need to sort it out quick.

That was what killed the WCE era core. The inability to refocus and get back into games after facing adversity. Each playoff series from 2002-2004 was disaster. There were a ton of blown leads and series which culminated in the core totally imploding...There was just no going forward after that Minneosta series.

Good thing is Demko is not Cloutier.

 

[Lawzy]

That was what killed the WCE era core. The inability to refocus and get back into games after facing adversity. Each playoff series from 2002-2004 was disaster. There were a ton of blown leads and series which culminated in the core totally imploding...There was just no going forward after that Minneosta series.

Not that I want to trauma dump but this also essentially what almost happened against Chicago and eventually happened against Boston in 2011. Instead of blown leads you had complete no shows for entire games but the cause was the same: mental fragility.

Ultimately that's what makes a championship team champions. I'm not sure this corps has that killer instinct yet (at least this year).

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

That was what killed the WCE era core. The inability to refocus and get back into games after facing adversity. Each playoff series from 2002-2004 was disaster. There were a ton of blown leads and series which culminated in the core totally imploding...There was just no going forward after that Minneosta series.

Good thing is Demko is not Cloutier.

to a degree i think every team ever has some of this in them, and it’s something that with more reps our guys should grow out of, getting overwhelmed and reverting to travis hockey as they have a handful of times this season

but i do think a lot of the reaction in this thread is ptsd from luongo’s meltdowns and before that the nas/tuzzi core. all of demko, hughes, and petey (and miller) looked unflappable the one time they all were in the playoffs together. but as a fanbase we (very fairly) are predisposed to expect a crushing gut punch collapse so we tend to overreact to blowing late leads.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Not that I want to trauma dump but this also essentially what almost happened against Chicago and eventually happened against Boston in 2011. Instead of blown leads you had complete no shows for entire games but the cause was the same: mental fragility.

Ultimately that's what makes a championship team champions. I'm not sure this corps has that killer instinct yet (at least this year).

At the time, it really felt that way...but the reality is Chicago in 2009 and 2010 were deeper and just had another gear and Vancouver could not meet them at that level. Re-watching the soul crushing losses, it wasn't for a lack of compete or desire, it was simply a matter of being totally outmatched by pure depth, grit and skill. The 2011 team was dominant. Chicago in 2011 only came back into the series when the team went down with a bad stomach flu in Game 4. We lost to Boston due to attrition with our defacto #1 defenseman lost to injury and our Selke nominated 2C playing with 1 hip. It wasn't for a lack of trying or focus.

End of the day, they were SCF finalists, had back to back Presidents trophy's and constantly beat up their division. I would be ecstatic if this core could have a sustained period of what we saw from 2009-2012.

 

[iceburg]

I hate complaining about refs. I get that the team needs to move on and focus on the next game. But that reffing display last night was shocking.

Apparently these two things are the same according to the NHL...

 

[nucks88]

One thing i got out of this game, is that the Canucks can play at the Av's level..I dont think that they're a clear tier above the Canucks..The last two games against them could have gone either way.

Yup, they need to clean things up but they can play with them for sure....

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

I honestly have no clue how anyone can watch that game and blame anyone but the Canucks and their poor decision making for that collapse. I guess some fans really wanted to win this one.

I honestly can't believe reading comprehension so poor one just ignores the first sentence and disclaimer. Then I saw who responded and it made perfect sense.

 

[Lawzy]

At the time, it really felt that way...but the reality is Chicago in 2009 and 2010 were deeper and just had another gear and Vancouver could not meet them at that level. Re-watching the soul crushing losses, it wasn't for a lack of compete or desire, it was simply a matter of being totally outmatched by pure depth, grit and skill. The 2011 team was dominant. Chicago in 2011 only came back into the series when the team went down with a bad stomach flu in Game 4. We lost to Boston due to attrition with our defacto #1 defenseman lost to injury and our Selke nominated 2C playing with 1 hip. It wasn't for a lack of trying or focus.

End of the day, they were SCF finalists, had back to back Presidents trophy's and constantly beat up their division. I would be ecstatic if this core could have a sustained period of what we saw from 2009-2012.

I agree RE: Chicago 2009 and 2010. I was specifically referring to the 2011 series against Chicago where we were clearly the better team but lost focus.

For the record, before I launch into a paragraph outlining why I disagree with everything else you say, the 2009-2012 Canucks were an excellent team and among the best teams I have ever seen not win a championship. They would mop the floor with the current iteration of the Canucks and, quite frankly, would have won the cup had they not run into an extremely terrible matchup in the Bruins.

All that being said, the mental fortitude of the 2009-2012 Canucks was absolutely their downfall. Yes, the Canucks injuries in 2011 were one of the contributing factor to their downfall. Full stop. For that matter, a blatant shift in how the game was being reffed was also a factor (not to mention one of the most impressive goaltending performances of all time). But I cannot fathom how you look back at either of those series and don't immediately question the mental fortitude of that corps. Every team in the playoffs goes through injuries and sickness (feel free to take a look at the injury report from the Bruins after the SCF). They might lose a step but championship caliber teams don't crumble the way the Canucks did.

That team was in their own head. As soon as they got push back from Chicago, they completely changed their playstyle to match the chippy (read: illegal) style employed by the Blackhawks and forgot what made them successful. Honestly, I kind of write off the Chicago series (especially since they overcame it) because it felt like a relict of past demons. But then they did the exact same thing against Boston once Boston realized the refs were going to let everything go. They played Boston's game, I'm assuming because they identified that the refs wouldn't gift them powerplays if they took it (D. Sedin as a punching bag notwithstanding), and crumbled when they couldn't match their intensity. I could buy the argument they shifted their playstyle in an attempt to overcome losing their top (and 6th) defenseman + having 1/2 of Kesler but it still doesn't make it the correct call.

I see a lot of that in the current iteration of the Canucks actually. Full credit to the Avs last night in the 3rd period (I watched the game live sitting next to a friend / Avalanche fan and want to die inside writing this sentence) for taking it to the Canucks, but there was no need to shift their playstyle into the Tocchet turtle. That's the kind of playstyle that gets you in trouble against elite teams.

Yup, they need to clean things up but they can play with them for sure....

I'm sure I am biased but for large parts of the last game against Colorado and up until the 3rd last night, I would argue the Canucks completely dictated the pace and were outclassing the Avalanche. Of course, championship caliber teams like that find a way to stay in every game but when the Canucks are clicking, I think they are among the best, if not the best, teams in the NHL. It's just about maintaining that pace.

 

[iceburg]

I honestly have no clue how anyone can watch that game and blame anyone but the Canucks and their poor decision making for that collapse. I guess some fans really wanted to win this one.

Two things can be true simultaneously: 1. The reffing was atrocious, and 2. the team lost because of poor play, not because of the refs.

I have no clue how anyone can say the refs are beyond reproach, especially after last night's display (maybe you're not saying that). If Cole's "penalty" was called every time, there wouldn't be a minute in any game without someone in the box.

 

[Green Blank Stare]

This is precisely what happened...and it really pissed me off.

For the first 40 minutes of this game, the Canucks played like they did in the previous two..They picked up , right where they left off.

Previous to that buzzer beater, the Av's were done and dusted,..That buzzer beater was an ominous signal for the 3rd period (and I said as much at the time)..The dominoes were going to fall, and they did.

I was at the game; I'm sure it looked the same on TV. Colorado looked lost until that goal at the end of the second. Their overall energy was down. Then they got that goal and the entire team was flying up and down the ice in the third.

That first goal was the difference in the game. If DeSmith gets that save, I think they cruise to a win in the third. It was a textbook example of momentum and giving a team hope when they had none.

 

[Canuckle1970]

I needed a few hours before reading the post mortem, so I'm just getting to it. Yeah, the reffing was questionable at times, but we stopped doing what was working in the 1st period (and the last Jets game), and the Avs got some life and took over. Last night's game was a great example of what to expect in the playoffs. Learn from it.

And our damn PP better get working or we won't be making teams pay for doing what Marchment did to Miller, whether it's 2 minutes or 5.

 

[Nick Lang]

Two things can be true simultaneously: 1. The reffing was atrocious, and 2. the team lost because of poor play, not because of the refs.

I have no clue how anyone can say the refs are beyond reproach, especially after last night's display (maybe you're not saying that). If Cole's "penalty" was called every time, there wouldn't be a minute in any game without someone in the box.

No that's not what I'm saying, sorry to be unclear. Sure I would say the reffing was a 2 or 3/10 why we lost. Pretty standard NHL game. Goaltending was also a 2/10. 8/10 was bonehead mistakes. 7/10 was effort. 7/10 focus. 8/10 composure.

The referees are not above reproach but any sports person should understand that at 3-0 with 30 seconds to go in the 2nd the game was completely in our control. We lost because of our poor play, lack of focus, and decision making. Not because of one borderline call, in which we got ourselves into trouble, but yet after that still had a 3-2 lead with 13 minutes to go in the third period. That's a totally winnable game with or without any of the penalty calls that game (3-2 against including the automatic Soucy call).