GDT: Avs @ Caps | November 21, 2015 | 5 PM MT | Thanks a Lot Roy, You Ruined It
- Thread starter UncleRisto
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tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
And on the coach front, has anyone considered it wouldn't be ALL positive either? I admit I'd like to see some structure to their game but does everyone want to give up the changes they used to like? No dump and chase, EJ and Barrie the freedom to rush the puck, the development of young players under Roy. Does everyone think a new coach will just come in and do everything y'all want? What if the guy has no use for Grigo and waives him. Not everyone would have given him a chance and the opportunity to find his game again. That's why any change has to be done intelligently and with the same purpose and direction Sakic is building the roster. Someone coming in and implementing very different philosophies that counteract the good they've done doesn't help anything either.
dahrougem2
Registered User
Change has to come with the assistants if you ask me. Farrish and Army need to go. I don't care if we have no idea what Army runs, he's been here too long without much success and Farrish, well, he's a relic. He has no idea how to coach in the NHL in today's day and age
tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
Why isn't Giroux getting Philly anywhere or Edmonton's wonderful core or how about miracle coach Hartley and all their talent?
dahrougem2
Registered User
The coach isn't the problem. This team isn't going to win any games with Andreas Martinsen as a 2nd line left winger, or with Cody McLeod as a 3rd line left winger, or with Jarome Iginla as a top-6 forward, or with a 4th line that's AHL caliber at the moment, or with defensemen like Holden, Redmond, Gormley, Stuart, and Guenin on the ice so little because they all aren't good that it forces EJ/Beauchemin to play well past what they should be playing.
This team has a nice core, yes. MacKinnon, Duchene, and Landeskog as three core forwards are nice and Grigorenko if he continues to progress this season may eventually join that group. But we're still short 8 forwards. Carl Soderberg is a nice player provided he has the right linemates and is in the right role. Right now, neither can be said for him. Blake Comeau, I think we're all realizing, sucks, and was a mistake to sign. Alex Tanguay is at the end of his career, as is Jarome Iginla. Cody McLeod is a 4th line player, Jack Skille is a 4th line player, John Mitchell is a 4th line centre who can sub onto the 3rd line for extended periods if injuries occur. Dennis Everberg and Andreas Martinsen are AHL players. Chris Wagner is an AHL player.
The team just isn't good enough, plain and simple. People can look at Mike Babcock and say "Well what about the Leafs?!?!" did you ever stop to think and realize that James Reimer has been the best goalie in the league for arguably the last 3-4 weeks? Did you see how much the Leafs sucked to start the season? Babcock is a good coach, yes, and you can see his system taking place in Toronto but let's not act like he'd be a saviour to this team. It'd be the same problem, maybe we'd squeak out 1-2 more wins with him here as a coach but the roster just isn't good enough.
It's going to take more time. Rantanen, Zadorov, Bigras, Bleackley, Meloche, our 2016 1st, they're all on the way. But they aren't going to be here anytime soon nor will they make an immediate impact.
It sucks losing, I hate it. But it's not going to stop this season because our roster isn't good
This team has a nice core, yes. MacKinnon, Duchene, and Landeskog as three core forwards are nice and Grigorenko if he continues to progress this season may eventually join that group. But we're still short 8 forwards. Carl Soderberg is a nice player provided he has the right linemates and is in the right role. Right now, neither can be said for him. Blake Comeau, I think we're all realizing, sucks, and was a mistake to sign. Alex Tanguay is at the end of his career, as is Jarome Iginla. Cody McLeod is a 4th line player, Jack Skille is a 4th line player, John Mitchell is a 4th line centre who can sub onto the 3rd line for extended periods if injuries occur. Dennis Everberg and Andreas Martinsen are AHL players. Chris Wagner is an AHL player.
The team just isn't good enough, plain and simple. People can look at Mike Babcock and say "Well what about the Leafs?!?!" did you ever stop to think and realize that James Reimer has been the best goalie in the league for arguably the last 3-4 weeks? Did you see how much the Leafs sucked to start the season? Babcock is a good coach, yes, and you can see his system taking place in Toronto but let's not act like he'd be a saviour to this team. It'd be the same problem, maybe we'd squeak out 1-2 more wins with him here as a coach but the roster just isn't good enough.
It's going to take more time. Rantanen, Zadorov, Bigras, Bleackley, Meloche, our 2016 1st, they're all on the way. But they aren't going to be here anytime soon nor will they make an immediate impact.
It sucks losing, I hate it. But it's not going to stop this season because our roster isn't good
Is it about them, or is it about us? We know what we have, and I think most of us think that we shouldn't look like this.
agentblack
Registered User
I can get behind this. It could be nice compromise between flat out getting rid of everyone to keeping them all around.
Patrick might actually benefit bringing in some actual coaches to assist him. Whats Larry Robinson up to these days?
There are alot of problems. It cant be defined to just one area which is why everyone is going back and forth with the comments.
It s the coaching, no its the roster, no its mgmt, no its the..mental fortitude or whatever someone said.
The Avs are like a bad complicated marriage right now.
- Jul 25, 2006
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Those are good points but people seem to look past what the biggest problem is with this team. Roy and Sakic are totally misinformed as to what kind of a team they have. They think they have a playoff team and they are making the wrong moves based on misevaluation. Signing older player nearing their careers because they think they need those vets for the playoffs etc...
Look at Babcock and what he said about his team that they aren't a playoff team and he realizes there is a lot of work to be done.
I'd like to hear Roy saying something like that, I'd feel much better knowing that the management knows what kind of a team they have and I wouldn't feel as bad about the record they have so far.
But listening to Roy, it sounds like he keeps insisting that he has a winning team, they just not playing good enough.
As the post above points out, Martinsen was your second line winger tonight. Nick Holden is in the top 4 on our defense, Berra has been our starting goaltender, and our actual starter has not played well before being injured.
This team will succeed when Mitchell is forced to the 4th line for most of the season, which means we have the talent above him to keep him off the third line and not at the wing in the top 9 either.
That, and when Holden and Guenin are both not in the starting lineup.
Avs44
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- May 16, 2011
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Very good post.
However, should Roy be the guy to oversee the next 2-3 years while we wait? That is what I am not sold on. He is half of a good coach. I think the fear when we hired him is that his shtick would tire out after a year, players would grow sick of him, and that would be it. But that was all wrong. He is evidently loved in the locker room, he seems to be quite calm...he is a players coach. I am sure the players like playing for him. But that being said...I don't think he is strict enough. There has to be accountability, there has to be a system. I think Roy has the 'person' side of being a coach down pat, but I am not sure if he knows what to do on the strategizing and X's and O's end. Maybe his demeanour worked in the CHL, but the NHL is far more complex and he has yet to show he knows what he is doing. Look at him on the bench...he looks as lost and confused as some of our players. Obviously the Leafs are getting carried by a goaltender right now, but Babcock for damn sure knows what he is doing.
My point being is that despite Roy having a great personality, on the X's and O's end of things I am not sold on how much better than Sacco he is. Our 'plan' out there looks as bad as Sacco some nights. I exaggerate, but it does get quite ugly, and it's not just the personnel - it is the system as well. I am of the opinion the Avs need a veteran coach who has had success at the NHL level for extended periods of time before - and who knows how to help heal a young, mentally fragile team. That is a tall order, perhaps that coach is not around right now, but I don't believe it is Roy. And I don't think the head coach should be learning along with the team simultaneously. The coach should be leading and instructing the team, not searching for answers as much as the players are.
Now perhaps Roy won't go...In fact I would lay money down he will not be fired, but at the very least we need to fire the assistants. Roy does not know what he is doing much of the time by the looks of things, so he damn well needs to have a guy on each side of him who DO know what they are doing and who Roy can also turn to if need be. Roy can continue to be the coach the players love, the motivator if you will (I do like what he has done with Barrie and somewhat with Grigs, certainly guys like Johnson have flourished), but there have to be guys in the locker room who have won at the NHL level, who know how to strategize, and who know what to do at all times - because like I said, when Roy starts blinking like a crazed man on the bench I get the impression that he is internally screaming.
tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
Yes, this is all true. Plus there's only one Babcock and why he gets paid the ridiculous amount he does and he's not here nor will he ever be and it's not like this org would have hired him either. That's why I say Hartley in Calgary is relevant, good young core, good coach, what's the problem?
Freudian
Clearly deranged
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PK is down to 76.8%. Most forwards are very passive. Seems like Skille and Landeskog are the only two able to put pressure on the puck carrier. I'm not sure what the defense attempts to do. They seem to alternate between going out of position and being happy just trying to block shots from the point.
They give up the blue line on the PK like it's nineteen ninetysacco.
It's just so so easy to play against.
Also, can we please stop saying Martinsen was the second line winger. He played 11 minutes and Iginla/Comeau played 15/17 minutes. Someone reported the lines out of order before the game.
They give up the blue line on the PK like it's nineteen ninetysacco.
It's just so so easy to play against.
Also, can we please stop saying Martinsen was the second line winger. He played 11 minutes and Iginla/Comeau played 15/17 minutes. Someone reported the lines out of order before the game.
agentblack
Registered User
It is pretty funny how quickly people went from loving Hartley to not in a span of a few months.
You need good goaltending All. the. time. and none of CGY, EDM, COL have gotten it consistently enough.
You need good goaltending All. the. time. and none of CGY, EDM, COL have gotten it consistently enough.
landy92mack29
Registered User
very bad goaltending and players have regressed to what they should be. Brodie injury at the start didn't help either.
Avs44
Registered User
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tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
Then McLeod was the second line winger.
I have no arguments against shaking up the assistants. Might get the point across without blowing it up.
I could see his face from club level across the ice tonight, looked like a giant red hot candy in a suit. lol
That entire team had zero fight in them tonight, the only players I noticed were their goalie, and Hagelin on the occasional breakaway attempt.
I'd like to see the assistants, and a Barrie/Hamonic trade personally. At this point I think I'm over Barrie's two faces from shift to shift, and would rather have a consistent defensive presence on the 2nd pair.
He'd be great to develop guys like Gormley, Zadorov, and Bigras next too.
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