Confirmed with Link: Avs acquire S. Girard, S. Bowers, V. Kamenev, A. Hammond, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd for M. Duchene

[hockeyfish]

Fully agree about the Preds, but I don't think Ottawa lost. They overpaid, but they got a legit upgrade...even if it's not a massive one...not just a slight improvement.

It's really not that big of an upgrade. Sure, maybe if you go off of what happened after, but at the time, upgrading form Turris to Duchene shouldn't cost a 1st, 3rd, and Burrows.

 

[cgf]

It's really not that big of an upgrade. Sure, maybe if you go off of what happened after, but at the time, upgrading form Turris to Duchene shouldn't cost a 1st, 3rd, and Burrows.

Right...it's not a massive upgrade...that they overpaid to make.

 

[Hasbro]

I think Ottawa loses for the simple fact is the trade for Duchene is the deal a contender should be making and they plummeted into the role of bottom feeder after right after the deal. It's like buying a Porsche and getting laid off a week later.

Bowers, a 1st and a 3rd are assets are more befitting a rebuilding team than a 27 year old a year away from UFA. I'm sure they'd take Girard, Kamenev and a 2nd for Turris if they had it to do over.

 

[AvsMakar08]

I think Ottawa loses for the simple fact is the trade for Duchene is the deal a contender should be making and they plummeted into the role of bottom feeder after right after the deal. It's like buying a Porsche and getting laid off a week later.

Bowers, a 1st and a 3rd are assets are more befitting a rebuilding team than a 27 year old a year away from UFA. I'm sure they'd take Girard, Kamenev and a 2nd for Turris if they had it to do over.

Ottawa was one goal away from SCF. They were contenders last season.

 

[dahrougem2]

Ottawa was one goal away from SCF. They were contenders last season.

Nobody in their right mind called Ottawa a contender for this season. Everything, literally everything went right for that team in 16-17.

 

[Eltuna]

Nobody in their right mind called Ottawa a contender for this season. Everything, literally everything went right for that team in 16-17.

Ottawa isn't missing the playoffs barring major injuries. They're better than Buffalo, Boston, Montreal, and Florida.

To be fair I think this is an opinion not held by many at the time of the trade, including yourself. I don’t even think Sakic thought that 1st was going to be a high pick, pretty much everybody thought it was going to be in the 20’s.

 

[The Abusement Park]

To be fair I think this is an opinion not held by many at the time of the trade, including yourself. I don’t even think Sakic thought that 1st was going to be a high pick, pretty much everybody thought it was going to be in the 20’s.

I think the consensus was that it was going to be in the 16-23-ish range.

 

[Balthazar]

Nobody in their right mind called Ottawa a contender for this season. Everything, literally everything went right for that team in 16-17.

The vast majority of people/journalists did. Go back and read what they were saying when they got Duchene who was now actually "playing for a contender" and "the Senators are a real good team". Did you watch the series in Sweden with sound?

Everything went right in their 16-17 playoff run but everything went wrong in their 17-18 season. They are somewhere in the middle (but on paper closer to 16-17 than 17-18).

 

[Hasbro]

Ottawa was one goal away from SCF. They were contenders last season.

They found out just a little bit too late that they weren't contenders this season.

 

[22FUTON9]

Happy 20th birthday sammy G. There's a birthday video on facebook that his family filmed. Nothing too special but it's still pretty funny

 

[dahrougem2]

The vast majority of people/journalists did. Go back and read what they were saying when they got Duchene who was now actually "playing for a contender" and "the Senators are a real good team". Did you watch the series in Sweden with sound?

Everything went right in their 16-17 playoff run but everything went wrong in their 17-18 season. They are somewhere in the middle (but on paper closer to 16-17 than 17-18).

No, they're closer on paper to 17-18 than 16-17.

Vast majority of people called them a playoff team. Not a cup contender.

 

[MarkT]

Yep, I certainly didn't see the Sens as a contender. I figured any team with Erik Karlsson, Mark Stone and the rest of their forwards is going to be at least in the playoff hunt, and how far they went would be determined mostly by their goaltending. I never though getting Duchene would turn them into a legit contender even if they gave up no one from their roster to do so. But to give up Turris in order to add Duchene is insane for a team that was a long shot to win the cup. That's a move Tampa, Nashville or Pittsburgh makes, not Ottawa. They reached and ended up getting burnt.

It's just yet another lesson that you should never judge a team on playoff performance alone - that often is just the result of a hot or cold streak (sometimes just by a goalie) rather than the actual quality of the team.

 

[tucker3434]

Fully agree about the Preds, but I don't think Ottawa lost. They overpaid, but they got a legit upgrade...even if it's not a massive one...not just a slight improvement.

They’re teetering on the precipice right now. If they overachieve and send us a mid 1st, I think they’re content with the trade but still not exactly thrilled. If that pick ends up in the top 10 or even 5, whoa boy.

 

[cgf]

They’re teetering on the precipice right now. If they overachieve and send us a mid 1st, I think they’re content with the trade but still not exactly thrilled. If that pick ends up in the top 10 or even 5, whoa boy.

Sure it turns into a disaster if they hand us a Hughes / Newhook / Kakko, but if the pick isn't top 5 (but instead closer to #10), while Duchene & Stone sign matching 7.5-7.75per extensions; I think they'll just shrug and say that they paid a high price to get a dynamic 1C who drives the action on the ice a lot better than Turris, who was much more of a perimeter player & supporting piece in the offensive zone, to move forward with. As they overpaid, but unless that pick does end up ridiculously high...or they go full rebuild this season because none of EK, Dutchy or Stone will sign extensions...then I think it's an overpay they're going to be fine with having had to make to make considering how much they still have in the pipeline.

I've mentioned before their forward prospects that I really like, and the young goalie they got from Pittsburgh seems to be legit...so if they grab Bouchard at #4, Chabot has a big sophomore season, Ceci bounces back, and they get a bluechipper on the blueline in the EK trade, they'll have an impressive U23 talent pool flooding in around Stone, Dutchy, and the other vets even after everything they gave up in the Duchene trade.

 

[tucker3434]

Sure it turns into a disaster if they hand us a Hughes / Newhook / Kakko, but if the pick isn't top 5 (but instead closer to #10), while Duchene & Stone sign matching 7.5-7.75per extensions; I think they'll just shrug and say that they paid a high price to get a dynamic 1C who drives the action on the ice a lot better than Turris, who was much more of a perimeter player & supporting piece in the offensive zone, to move forward with. As they overpaid, but unless that pick does end up ridiculously high...or they go full rebuild this season because none of EK, Dutchy or Stone will sign extensions...then I think it's an overpay they're going to be fine with having had to make to make considering how much they still have in the pipeline.

I've mentioned before their forward prospects that I really like, and the young goalie they got from Pittsburgh seems to be legit...so if they grab Bouchard at #4, Chabot has a big sophomore season, Ceci bounces back, and they get a bluechipper on the blueline in the EK trade, they'll have an impressive U23 talent pool flooding in around Stone, Dutchy, and the other vets even after everything they gave up in the Duchene trade.

It’s just tough to justify when Duchene clearly isn’t their last piece for a cup run. If Nashville had paid it, okay, I get that. But Ottawa wasn’t a cup favorite even before their collapse. Now they’re kind of in purgatory where they need a retool at minimum but lack a 1st and a 3rd pick. Even if that 1st isn’t really high, it’s put them in a bit of a bind.

I’m sure they’d never admit it, but they’d undo that trade if they could.

 

[cgf]

It’s just tough to justify when Duchene clearly isn’t their last piece for a cup run. If Nashville had paid it, okay, I get that. But Ottawa wasn’t a cup favorite even before their collapse. Now they’re kind of in purgatory where they need a retool at minimum but lack a 1st and a 3rd pick. Even if that 1st isn’t really high, it’s put them in a bit of a bind.

I’m sure they’d never admit it, but they’d undo that trade if they could.

I can see the argument that in hindsight they should've just kept the Turris package for themselves and sold off Karlsson to throw themselves into an accelerated rebuild...but that team needed a #1C, and even with his inconsistency Dutchy is a legit #1C that can drive the action even when he's not producing, in a way that Turris just isn't...despite his better two-way game.

Nevermind that after being a playoff bubble team for years and having just made a great run, going into a retool would've been a hard sell to a fanbase that it's already hard to get to schlepp out to their arena. So I can understand them trying to capitalize on their prospect depth to replace the outgoing Turris with someone they were more comfortable paying 1C money to under the assumption that they were going to remain a playoff bubble team until the likes of Chabot, White, Brown, etc. where joining EK, Stone & Dutchy are key players.

Although they obviously overpaid. As they should've kept their 3rd, gotten the Nashville 2nd, and maybe Kamenev as well. Making a fairly balanced trade look more like Turris + Bowers + 1st + Hammond out, Duchene + 2nd (+ maybe Kamenev) in. But I can't fault Dorion for looking at most of this decade as a bubble team, with a ton of prospects getting close, and Turris on his way out; and deciding to pursue Duchene.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

The trade will look brutal once Duchene ages and starts getting worse. It is not that far fetched to say that at this moment the trade looks as good as it will ever look for Ottawa, yet they still finished at the bottom of the league.

 

[Hasbro]

They’re teetering on the precipice right now. If they overachieve and send us a mid 1st, I think they’re content with the trade but still not exactly thrilled. If that pick ends up in the top 10 or even 5, whoa boy.

Even more reason now to kick them when they are down and offer sheet Stone.

 

[Hasbro]

The trade will look brutal once Duchene ages and starts getting worse. It is not that far fetched to say that at this moment the trade looks as good as it will ever look for Ottawa, yet they still finished at the bottom of the league.

I still wouldn't rule out Dorian and Melnyk eating crow, realizing Duchene is a sunk cost and trading him at the deadline.

I wonder what happens if the offer him an extension after July 1st.

 

[cgf]

Watching Duchene actually look happy again down the stretch for them, I wouldn't be shocked to see him & Stone take 7.5-7.75per deals for 5-ish years...so they get one last chance to really cash in. Playing for a team that obviously really wanted him, and having his relatives a lot closer seems to be helping him a lot

 

[the_fan]

I think it's safe to say Avs won this trade. Turris didn't do anything in the playoffs for the Preds who were the top cup contender that got knocked out in the 2nd round. Duchene did have decent point production for the Sens, but the team didn't go anywhere. Avs made the playoffs who weren't even suppose to be anywhere near the playoffs.

 

[tucker3434]

I can see the argument that in hindsight they should've just kept the Turris package for themselves and sold off Karlsson to throw themselves into an accelerated rebuild...but that team needed a #1C, and even with his inconsistency Dutchy is a legit #1C that can drive the action even when he's not producing, in a way that Turris just isn't...despite his better two-way game.

Nevermind that after being a playoff bubble team for years and having just made a great run, going into a retool would've been a hard sell to a fanbase that it's already hard to get to schlepp out to their arena. So I can understand them trying to capitalize on their prospect depth to replace the outgoing Turris with someone they were more comfortable paying 1C money to under the assumption that they were going to remain a playoff bubble team until the likes of Chabot, White, Brown, etc. where joining EK, Stone & Dutchy are key players.

Although they obviously overpaid. As they should've kept their 3rd, gotten the Nashville 2nd, and maybe Kamenev as well. Making a fairly balanced trade look more like Turris + Bowers + 1st + Hammond out, Duchene + 2nd (+ maybe Kamenev) in. But I can't fault Dorion for looking at most of this decade as a bubble team, with a ton of prospects getting close, and Turris on his way out; and deciding to pursue Duchene.

Im not saying they should have kept the Turris package. I don’t think anyone would’ve expected them to be sellers at that point. Just seems weird for a team like them to be overpaying for a marginal upgrade at center. I prefer Duchene to Turris, but Turris+1st+ is going to be an extremely difficult trade to win.

I know there was a bit more to the Turris situation and they did end up with the best player in the deal. But they were going to need to catch some breaks to look good in this trade. Another run to the ECF and Dorian looks brilliant. But anything short and it’s not great.

 

[Hasbro]

I know there was a bit more to the Turris situation and they did end up with the best player in the deal.

That's still TBD

 

[Eltuna]

The biggest negative I see for Ottawa, and an opinion I held at the time, is that neither Duchene nor Turris are cup winning 1C’s. I thought Ottawa was a playoff team, but when you look at cup winning #1 centers of the last 20 years, are any of them at Duchenes level? I can’t think of any off the top of my head. There’s lots of different definitions of what a 1C or 1D is, but to me, the definition is “If this guy is my 1C, and the rest of my team is built solidly, can we win the cup?”. Meaning if you have an average 1D, 1G, and 1W, can this center lead me to a championship. If Duchene is your 1C, you need to have a Nashville-like defence behind him if you want to win the cup. To me that makes him a high end 2C, even if he’s one of the top 31 centers in the league. If you can’t win with him as the 1C unless the rest of the team is absolutely stacked, then what’s the point? It’s a very binary way of looking at a team but it’s what I belive in. It’s also why I always push for us to trade for a 1D like Karlsson. The only team that has recently won a cup with a 1D like EJ is Pittsburgh last year who are obviously outliers due to their centers. If we can’t win with EJ as the 1D, and Makar/Timmins will take many years to become a 1D (if they ever do) then what’s really the point of watching the team in the next 4 years as they don’t have a chance to actually win the whole thing? Obviously I’ll continue to watch I’m certainly not suggesting the avs future is hopeless, it just helps to cement my belief that you need to go big when making these kinds of moves. Ottawa didn’t really need a Duchene, they needed a Tavares. Now maybe one wasn’t available to trade for, so if I was them I’d keep my assets until one is available, which will eventually happen.

 

[the_fan]

If Duchene is your 1C, you need to have a Nashville-like defence behind him if you want to win the cup

IMO even Nashville with their d core wont win the cup unless they get a better center than what they have now. It's no coincidence that they haven't been able to win it yet. They just don't have a game breaking center or any forward to be honest. Forsberg is a good player and all, but is he really a game breaker? Their #1 center is Ryan Johansen who definitely is not a game breaker.