Confirmed with Link: Avs acquire S. Girard, S. Bowers, V. Kamenev, A. Hammond, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd for M. Duchene - Part II

[Pokecheque]

What is going on with Girard this year? I was really excited to see him play during the offseason but he seems like a shell of his 2018-19 season self. He's getting outmuscled along the boards, he's failing to clear the zone. Even his spinoramas have fallen off a cliff and he doesn't seem to have the offensive prowess we've seen from him before. Is it that he's been given a different role now that Barrie is gone and he's struggling with his new assignments? Has Cale turning up burst his bubble? It's weird, he has a lot of potential but he seems mostly invisible except for turnovers this year.

This kinda happened last year too--he is not a good match with EJ. Unfortunately Makar appears to be working well with Graves, so in order to reunite Turn-and-Burn you have to break up the one defensive pair that appears to be working well.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

What is going on with Girard this year? I was really excited to see him play during the offseason but he seems like a shell of his 2018-19 season self. He's getting outmuscled along the boards, he's failing to clear the zone. Even his spinoramas have fallen off a cliff and he doesn't seem to have the offensive prowess we've seen from him before. Is it that he's been given a different role now that Barrie is gone and he's struggling with his new assignments? Has Cale turning up burst his bubble? It's weird, he has a lot of potential but he seems mostly invisible except for turnovers this year.

IMO it is a combination of opposing players getting more used to his evasive moves and Girard holding on to the puck a bit too long. They know he likes to hold on to the puck so thhey try to stay with him more and then out muscle him. His passing has been off a bit as well.

 

[Foppa2118]

I think it's just a little lack of motivation. He played two years in the NHL and was really motivated to prove his doubters wrong as an undersized defenseman that many thought wouldn't make it in the league.

Now he's 22 and has already given himself financial security for the next seven years making $5M a season. There's going to be a lull in motivation for some guys, it's only natural. Hopefully he'll get it figured out in the second half of the season.

Compher is going through the same thing right now with his four year deal.

 

[Pokecheque]

I think it's just a little lack of motivation. He played two years in the NHL and was really motivated to prove his doubters wrong as an undersized defenseman that many thought wouldn't make it in the league.

Now he's 22 and has already given himself financial security for the next seven years making $5M a season. There's going to be a lull in motivation for some guys, it's only natural. Hopefully he'll get it figured out in the second half of the season.

Compher is going through the same thing right now with his four year deal.

I don't think that's the case at all for either player. Neither has shown any lack of hustle/effort during their time in the NHL. Compher always has been and will be an insanely streaky player. Right now he's not playing with a ton of confidence and fighting the puck. G is not a good fit with EJ and struggling a little when the opposition sends multiple forecheckers on him. During a game a graphic flashed onto the screen that showed players who absorbed the most hits after making plays. G was not at the very top but he was close.

 

[henchman21]

The scouting report is out on Girard, and EJ isn't good enough to help him counter consistently. Teams know that they can just collapse and pummel Girard and pretty much ignore EJ... since if EJ does anything, it won't be of substance enough to be dangerous consistently. Girard needs a partner that can take some pressure off him by also being good with the puck. When he gets that partner, his game will clean up. I think we should give up hope of Bednar going with Girard and Makar... so Girard and Timmins should be the next hope.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

The scouting report is out on Girard, and EJ isn't good enough to help him counter consistently. Teams know that they can just collapse and pummel Girard and pretty much ignore EJ... since if EJ does anything, it won't be of substance enough to be dangerous consistently. Girard needs a partner that can take some pressure off him by also being good with the puck. When he gets that partner, his game will clean up. I think we should give up hope of Bednar going with Girard and Makar... so Girard and Timmins should be the next hope.

I don’t know how soon it comes, but the future is

Byram - Makar

Girard - Timmins

 

[Foppa2118]

I don't think that's the case at all for either player. Neither has shown any lack of hustle/effort during their time in the NHL. Compher always has been and will be an insanely streaky player. Right now he's not playing with a ton of confidence and fighting the puck. G is not a good fit with EJ and struggling a little when the opposition sends multiple forecheckers on him. During a game a graphic flashed onto the screen that showed players who absorbed the most hits after making plays. G was not at the very top but he was close.

It's not about hustle and effort. It's about focus and execution.

There's much less urgency and desire to do both at 100%. It happens to lots of players for a brief period after signing a big deal.

 

[Pokecheque]

It's not about hustle and effort. It's about focus and execution.

Again, I don't agree with you. Henchy put it better than I did concerning Girard and the problem with pairing him with EJ, and with Compher, this really isn't anything new. He disappears for long stretches all the time.

 

[Patagonia]

Girard struggles could be partly the team injuries. Nearly 1/3 of the roster is off with various conditions, he needs to be more responsible and lead. Opposing teams are keying in on him as the PMD. Maybe partner with Makar or drop him down to the 2nd line.

 

[Foppa2118]

Again, I don't agree with you. Henchy put it better than I did concerning Girard and the problem with pairing him with EJ, and with Compher, this really isn't anything new. He disappears for long stretches all the time.

I know you don't agree and that's fine. I think Girard and EJ are fine as partners. They both compliment each others strengths and weaknesses. EJ is good enough with the puck to support him, and good enough defensively to take the pressure off him.

The problem isn't the pairing, the problem is G is making mental errors. He's skating the puck out too much, when he should be passing quicker. And he's being a little too cocky in his abilities at times, which gets him in trouble. He should pick his spots more and make the simple play more often.

I think it's a mistake to believe they went from being a really good pairing to a bad pairing 20 games into this season, and it's just a coincidence Girard signed a $35M deal in the offseason.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I dont even think he's been bad honestly. He could certainly use a better partner instead of trying to carry the lifeless corpse of Erik Johnson.


He's made a few mistakes but I still think he's bringing far more good than bad with his transition game overall. And again once he gets a good Top 4 partner to work with he should improve a fair bit.


Johnson just isn't good anymore.

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

I think it's just a little lack of motivation. He played two years in the NHL and was really motivated to prove his doubters wrong as an undersized defenseman that many thought wouldn't make it in the league.

Now he's 22 and has already given himself financial security for the next seven years making $5M a season. There's going to be a lull in motivation for some guys, it's only natural. Hopefully he'll get it figured out in the second half of the season.

Compher is going through the same thing right now with his four year deal.

Sometimes guys try too hard to prove they are worth their big new deal. And need a year to settle in.

 

[Pokecheque]

I know you don't agree and that's fine. I think Girard and EJ are fine as partners. They both compliment each others strengths and weaknesses. EJ is good enough with the puck to support him, and good enough defensively to take the pressure off him.

The problem is G is making metal error. He's skating the puck out too much, when he should be passing. And he's being a little too cocky in his abilities at times, which gets him in trouble. He should pick his spots more and make the simple play more often.

I think it's a mistake to believe they went from being a really good pairing to a bad pairing 20 games into this season, and it's just a coincidence Girard signed a $35M deal in the offseason.

Actually I've never maintained that they were good. In fact I've harped on the fact that they were bad last year too--Girard did much better away from him, even when he was paired with Barrie.

 

[Foppa2118]

I dont even think he's been bad honestly. He could certainly use a better partner instead of trying to carry the lifeless corpse of Erik Johnson.


He's made a few mistakes but I still think he's bringing far more good than bad with his transition game overall. And again once he gets a good Top 4 partner to work with he should improve a fair bit.


Johnson just isn't good anymore.

Girard does lead the D and is second on the team in giveaways with 14 though.

 

[cgf]

Actually I've never maintained that they were good. In fact I've harped on the fact that they were bad last year too--Girard did much better away from him, even when he was paired with Barrie.

They certainly were a bad fit at times last year, but I thought there was a period over the winter when he & Samwise found an effective balance; where EJ could maraud around the ice the way he's want to, while Girard cleaned up for him & relied on his escapability to make space for him to launch passes rather than to carry the puck up ice himself...at least until EJ broke again...

And to live up to my schtick: You say that as though absolutely everyone we've ever paired him with, hasn't done better when paired with Barrie ;-)

 

[Foppa2118]

If we were all happy with Girard the last two seasons, and I assume we all were since no one complained about the $5M x 7 deal he signed, we were for the most part happy with the Girard-EJ pairing, because that's who he's been primarily paired with. That's who helped him have the success he's had.

 

[cgf]

If we were all happy with Girard the last two seasons, and I assume we all were since no one complained about the $5M x 7 deal he signed, we were for the most part happy with the Girard-EJ pairing, because that's who he's been primarily paired with. That's who helped him have the success he's had.

...about that...

I was happy with the deal because I thought he'd grow into it & so didn't mind paying for potential; especially to get him locked down for that long...but I did get hit with a mini-s*** storm for saying that he hadn't earned it yet. And during part of that s***-storm, Poke expressed those same concerns about the EJ-Samwise pairing.

 

[Foppa2118]

...about that...

I was happy with the deal because I thought he'd grow into it & so didn't mind paying for potential; especially to get him locked down for that long...but I did get hit with a mini-s*** storm for saying that he hadn't earned it yet. And during part of that s***-storm, Poke expressed those same concerns about the EJ-Samwise pairing.

Ok that's fair then.

I think/hope this will all be much ado about nothing by the second half of the season. Or next year at the latest. He's just in funk right now IMO.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

If we were all happy with Girard the last two seasons, and I assume we all were since no one complained about the $5M x 7 deal he signed, we were for the most part happy with the Girard-EJ pairing, because that's who he's been primarily paired with. That's who helped him have the success he's had.

....Or, we saw just how good Sam was with Makar/Barrie and assumed that was where the future would be headed, rather than seeing more of this EJ/Girard nonsense when it is clear that EJ simply is not a strong enough Defender to be playing that role next to Girard anymore.


Plus, I'm sure most of us recognize the rapid falloff EJ is going through and that soon enough it wont be Girard/EJ but instead it should be Girard/Makar or Girard/Timmins and are very excited for that future as well. G with either of Makar or Timmins in the next year or so should create one hell of a Top 4 combination. The problem right now is EJ and Girard having to do some extra work to carry the pairing, combined with teams having a better understanding of Girards strengths/weaknesses now after two years and being able to target those weaknesses more easily now than in previous years.


The quicker Zadorov/EJ can become our 3rd pairing "shutdown" unit that also handles heavy PK minutes, the better. Keep Graves with Makar(At least until we find some sort of external solution to upgrade Graves), and maybe even try Cole with Girard as I actually think Cole might work better alongside G at this point than EJ.

 

[cgf]

Ok that's fair then.

I think/hope this will all be much ado about nothing by the second half of the season. Or next year at the latest.

I don't think it's anything fundamentally wrong with Samwise or his skillset. He's just not the dynamic puck-carrier that guys like Cale, Hughes, Chabot, etc. are and that's never really been his game at this level...which is why EJ & he had their best results when Sam was the one hanging back to clean up for EJ, more often than the inverse (at least IMO). What he's shown he can do when on for is be incredibly crafty at getting out of the zone & was our best passing blueliner the moment he was acquired. Plus he uses his skating/smarts very well against the puck -- thus the lefty-Spurgeon comp -- so it's a question of usage/role rather than skillset, to me.

...although if his shot ever became as much of a weapon as OG-Spurgeon's has in recent years; that would be huge for his ability to make as big of an impact in the final third as he does in the first 2.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

I dont even think he's been bad honestly. He could certainly use a better partner instead of trying to carry the lifeless corpse of Erik Johnson.


He's made a few mistakes but I still think he's bringing far more good than bad with his transition game overall. And again once he gets a good Top 4 partner to work with he should improve a fair bit.


Johnson just isn't good anymore.

I don’t think Girard’s been any better than EJ.

Honestly, EJ, Girard, and Cole were great for the first 8-10 games and all of them have declined since.

 

[Avsboy]

I don’t think Girard’s been any better than EJ.

Honestly, EJ, Girard, and Cole were great for the first 8-10 games and all of them have declined since.

The worry is with Girard, he's young. EJ and Cole are older and expected to show up for the playoffs and act as second goalies.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

The worry is with Girard, he's young. EJ and Cole are older and expected to show up for the playoffs and act as second goalies.

For sure. My expectations for Cole are extremely low.

EJ, while I recognize his regression, I still feel like he needs to be solid for the Avs to be a really good team. At least for this season.

Girard has been up and down for me. At the start of the year, I was shocked at how good he looked and more recently I’ve been surprised how his play has turned the other way. Need some kind of middle ground from G.

 

[Foppa2118]

It's worth noting that Girard looked really bad with Makar at the beginning of this year too, and Bednar hasn't gone back to them outside a couple shifts per game. Though I think he will at some point. Possibly when Timmins or Rosen get a callup.

So it's not just EJ that Girard has struggled with.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

It's worth noting that Girard looked really bad with Makar at the beginning of this year too, and Bednar hasn't gone back to them outside a couple shifts per game. Though I think he will at some point. Possibly when Timmins or Rosen get a callup.

So it's not just EJ that Girard has struggled with.

Girard has been paired with EJ all year long, outside of shifts here and there. They had Makar/Girard together in camp but havent done it in the regular season.