Post-Game Talk: Avs 4, Pens 2 - Elmo Witnesses Nuclear Destruction

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Your just making up strawmen and throwing in poor assumptions.

I can't handle them getting older or you are looking for convenient excuses for their irresponsible play? I'm pretty sure I know the answer...

They need more help? They have a HOF bound winger and a kid that had a historical rookie playoff run flanking them. This isn't exactly them being stuck playing with coal miners, but hey, let's throw some more hyperbole on the fire.

The original argument stems from people thinking the loss of Bones, Kunitz, etc is why the team is playing poorly. You and they are ignoring the fact that Bones and Kunitz struggled to score into December last season, yet their record was much better than this year.

You think that had something to do with Crosby and Letang playing leaps and bounds better at this point last season than now?

They don't have to dominate for this team to win. They have to play more responsible hockey and stop trying to do too much. It's snowballing on them, and if you and others refuse to acknowledge that, I suggest that you try to watch the games without being so emotional.

Unlike you, I'm giving two great players credit that they can fix their games and get this team back on track, instead of looking for a cop out excuse like you.

Yeah player turnover doesn't affect a team at all. Playing a ton of extra games doesn't affect a team at all. Stars being 5-10 years older than their counterparts on other teams doesn't affect a team at all (sup MacKinnon?). Is this really what you're going with? How am I the one being emotional when I'm simply listing things that can and do affect a team and you're waxing poetic about two players successfully putting everyone on their backs more or less a third time in a row despite the reality of the situation? I'm guessing that's hyperbole though because I didn't say it in exactly the same words you did and instead exaggerated to point out the absurdity of such a statement. Not talking Cup here, talking those two guys clearly steering the ship despite anyone else's inconsistencies.

Yeah, they have other good to great players. I'm saying what was once enough of a supporting cast is starting to no longer be quite enough. It's why Jake is probably going to have a very good year instead of a phenomenal one like he would've in a full season last year. It's why Sheary is useless more often than not and why Rust hasn't taken a step forward and won't do so even while playing more games than last year. So they simplify their games and stop trying to do too much, while Kessel and Nobody pick up the slack and makes the team dangerous again. Good luck with that, but I guess certain players have slumped statistically in certain months of past years so somehow that equates to the roster being fine. That trumps everything right?

Crosby and Malkin just have to play responsible hockey though. The defense will cease to be merely adequate, everyone that's still here that we relied on last year will start scoring, and our bottom six will be great again. Crosby and Malkin don't have to dominate? So far the box scores disagree with you, but I'm sure it's just that they just need to commit a few less turnovers and shore up their defensive game. That will cure all that ails this team. It's convenient that at this point you're now claiming that the two of them will right the ship, but have also baked in an excuse for their totals inevitably being lower than their usual.

"I hope you're right".

 

[Fatty McLardy]

what i provided is literally the measurement of the things your talking about. Ignoring that they are getting league average chances and league worst results isnt because theyre not trying hard enough.

That's cool man,You're one of those guys that blames things on bad luck. That's fine and all but like i said i hope JR is not going "its only bad luck! lets not do anything!!!"

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

That's cool man,You're one of those guys that blames things on bad luck. That's fine and all but like i said i hope JR is not going "its only bad luck! lets not do anything!!!"

Its not blaming anything on anything. Im describing what has happened.

The Pittsburgh Penguins have gotten/allowed opportunities at X% and are getting results at Y%. The difference between those things arent try harder.

Try harder changes the X variable not the Y result.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Its not blaming anything on anything. Im describing what has happened.

The Pittsburgh Penguins have gotten/allowed opportunities at X% and are getting results at Y%. The difference between those things arent try harder.

Try harder changes the X variable not the Y result.

The Y result is Ryan Reaves hitting the post instead of sneaking that shot in yesterday. etc.

 

[Andy99]

xGF takes where shots come from into account so that is neutralized. Its basically saying while our PDO is awful the process is league average and should be expected to get league average results going forward.

The thing is it might not take the time period we need to make the playoffs for the PDO to average out. It didn't for the Kings last year and they missed the playoffs.

Second, part of shooting problem is not just taking crappy shots so to speak. It seems like we don't take shots creatively, even the highly skilled players. We don't do things like fake out the defenseman on a shot and move to a little to the left or right to reposition the shot. We don't hold the puck to deceive the goalie on breakaways a lot. We don't cut into the slot and go across the crease. We don't use a lot of deception and elevates shots enough. It's like we just shoot a lot with the goalie looking right at us, or try to get deflected pucks from the point. The lack of creativity is glaring and hurts our shooting percentage

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

The thing is it might not take the time period we need to make the playoffs for the PDO to average out. It didn't for the Kings last year and they missed the playoffs.

Second, part of shooting problem is not just taking crappy shots so to speak. It seems like we don't take shots creatively, even the highly skilled players. We don't do things like fake out the defenseman on a shot and move to a little to the left or right to reposition the shot. We don't hold the puck to deceive the goalie on breakaways a lot. We don't cut into the slot and go across the crease. We don't use a lot of deception and elevates shots enough. It's like we just shoot a lot with the goalie looking right at us, or t y to get deflected pucks from the point. The lack of creativity is glaring and hurts our shooting percentage

Oh absolutely its not a silver bullett for our problems because who know when it might start to normalize

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Yeah player turnover doesn't affect a team at all. Playing a ton of extra games doesn't affect a team at all. Stars being 5-10 years older than their counterparts on other teams doesn't affect a team at all (sup MacKinnon?). Is this really what you're going with? How am I the one being emotional when I'm simply listing things that can and do affect a team and you're waxing poetic about two players successfully putting everyone on their backs more or less a third time in a row despite the reality of the situation? I'm guessing that's hyperbole though because I didn't say it in exactly the same words you did and instead exaggerated to point out the absurdity of such a statement. Not talking Cup here, talking those two guys clearly steering the ship despite anyone else's inconsistencies.

Yeah, they have other good to great players. I'm saying what was once enough of a supporting cast is starting to no longer be quite enough. It's why Jake is probably going to have a very good year instead of a phenomenal one like he would've in a full season last year. It's why Sheary is useless more often than not and why Rust hasn't taken a step forward and won't do so even while playing more games than last year. So they simplify their games and stop trying to do too much, while Kessel and Nobody pick up the slack and makes the team dangerous again. Good luck with that, but I guess certain players have slumped statistically in certain months of past years so somehow that equates to the roster being fine. That trumps everything right?

Crosby and Malkin just have to play responsible hockey though. The defense will cease to be merely adequate, everyone that's still here that we relied on last year will start scoring, and our bottom six will be great again. Crosby and Malkin don't have to dominate? So far the box scores disagree with you, but I'm sure it's just that they just need to commit a few less turnovers and shore up their defensive game. That will cure all that ails this team. It's convenient that at this point you're now claiming that the two of them will right the ship, but have also baked in an excuse for their totals inevitably being lower than their usual.

"I hope you're right".

You continue to make strawmen and argue agt things you are creating in your own head.

I even said in my second to last paragraph they don't need to dominate for this team to win, but keep on with the agenda I guess.

Let's play your game and assume Crosby and Malkin have both aged significantly in the last year and let's agree the roster isn't as good as last season... so wouldn't it behove them to play more responsible hockey and not keep putting their team in shitty situations with their turnovers, since they are now "too old" to make their production worth the risks they take?

Uh ya but uh.. old backs and stuff and poetry!

There is no way to argue around the fact that they need to play more responsible hockey if this team is going to get back on track.

I mean, feel free to keep trying if you enjoy losing causes.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

You continue to make strawmen and argue agt things you are creating in your own head.

I even said in my second to last paragraph they don't need to dominate for this team to win, but keep on with the agenda I guess.

Let's play your game and assume Crosby and Malkin have both aged significantly in the last year and let's agree the roster isn't as good as last season... so wouldn't it behove them to play more responsible hockey and not keep putting their team in ****ty situations with their turnovers, since they are now "too old" to make their production worth the risks they take?

Uh ya but uh.. old backs and stuff and poetry!

There is no way to argue around the fact that they need to play more responsible hockey if this team is going to get back on track.

I mean, feel free to keep trying if you enjoy losing causes.

I didn't say they've aged "significantly" or that their skills have diminished "significantly." My god. I'm saying that even a slight downturn can be a detriment to the team as a whole, because they're that important. I posit that that's happening now and that no, they don't have enough elsewhere in the lineup to get back to where they were. If you disagree, have a ball. They can play as responsibly as they want. I don't think it's the key to turning this season around. It's one problem among at least a few, and still won't take them very far if remedied on its own. If it was an issue for the two of them while they were still making the rest of the league look like fools, I wouldn't worry a bit. I think things are starting to change though. We'll see if I'm a handful of years too early or overreacting.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I didn't say they've aged or their skills have diminished "significantly." My god. I'm saying that even a slight downturn can be a detriment to the team as a whole, because they're that important. I posit that that's happening now and that no, they don't have enough elsewhere in the lineup to get back to where they were. If you disagree, have a ball. They can play as responsibly as they want. I don't think it's the key to turning this season around. It's one problem among at least a few, and still won't take them very far if remedied on its own. If it was an issue for the two of them while they were still making the rest of the league look like fools, I wouldn't worry a bit. I think things are starting to change though. We'll see if I'm a handful of years too early or overreacting.

Your arguing their skills aren't enough to carry the team anymore, etc, yet you don't see them playing responsible hockey to make up for this perceived erosion, as something necessary to a winning culture?

Ok then... I guess this discussion has nowhere else to go.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Your arguing their skills aren't enough to carry the team anymore, etc, yet you don't see them playing responsible hockey to make up for this perceived erosion, as something necessary to a winning culture?

Ok then... I guess this discussion has nowhere else to go.

I didn't say it wasn't necessary. I'm saying, again, that I don't think it's enough this time around.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I didn't say it wasn't necessary. I'm saying, again, that I don't think it's enough this time around.

Of course it's not enough, it's a big part of the solution though. They can make big moves and if their two superstars keep playing bonehead hockey, it won't matter.

They can mostly certainly start winning more games without any outside help with much better puck mgmt.