Post-Game Talk: Avs 3, Pens 1 3/4/2015

[Ugene Magic]

It's silly for anyone to say how MacKinnon is flying around looking like the old Crosby, when the guy has had an extremely bad year and was just riding the bench.

Crosby doesn't look like the old Crosby because teams are back to playing clutch and grab hockey. When Crosby first came into the league, you weren't allowed to interfere and water ski on the stars. So it was a lot easier to skate around and make plays back then. Each year it has gotten progressively worse. He also scored a bunch of his goals in the paint and drove the net consistently back then.

The difference between Crosby and Malkin right now, is a willingness to take the puck to the net. Almost all of Malkin's goals lately have been created because he is playing between the circles and driving the net without fear. It makes Malkin much harder to defend and less predictable.

Crosby isn't really working well with his linemates or taking the puck to the net, which makes it impossible to be effective with teams mucking it up so often now.

It's rare to see Crosby lay the body, cut across the grain in the circles with the puck, drive the net with the puck, etc these days. I'm 100% sure it isn't declining skills and more of a mental state. I think he has just decided to change the way he plays and all of our *****ing and complaining probably won't change that.

I wanna feel he's saving himself, I really hope he is, because the present day Crosby is just horrible to watch. Saving yourself doesn't mean pull up and try a 50/50 pass almost on an every shift basis. The simple rule is to keep the puck north and stop the cute plays so much. They only work if he holds onto it from time to time and shoots or drives the lane.

 

[AR5]

I'm very pissed that the Pens played like Kunitz tonight.

Kunitz'ing Kunitz's can't play a Kunitz'ing period.

At this point I'm starting not to give a Kunitz anymore. This team is Kunitz'd.

This team will bomb out in the first round of the playoffs to any Kunitz'ing team.

 

[Jacob]

I watched the first period and went to bed in an effort to divest myself from a team that makes f**king a**hole decisions.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

This is exactly on point, very well said. It is frustrating.

However, if he does those things in the playoffs I will not complain. In reality, he will get his point per game in the regular season, I want to see how he leads this playoff.

If he refuses to drive to the net, play in the corners, or carry the puck in traffic in the neutral zone then I would seriously move him.

Malkin, right now, is so much better and more dangerous because he is a complete player. It's very rare that a one trick pony, even when that trick is the best in the league, beats NHLer's often.

Also, Sutter is playing horrendous hockey...... that guy is such a dud.

I still think Crosby's wrist is bothering him and/or he may even be dealing with another injury. He even admitted to jamming his wrist in that fight plus I remember a picture going around earlier in the year with his hand wrapped up. He looks like a guy who is trying to protect an injury out there. Just like last year in the playoffs and at the end of last season, he would have a few good games here and there but for the most part played a different style. If it is his wrist, I hope he gets the surgery in the off season.

I wanna feel he's saving himself, I really hope he is, because the present day Crosby is just horrible to watch. Saving yourself doesn't mean pull up and try a 50/50 pass almost on an every shift basis. The simple rule is to keep the puck north and stop the cute plays so much. They only work if he holds onto it from time to time and shoots or drives the lane.

I severely doubt it is his wrist. I had really ****ed up wrists at various points when I played and I haven't seen any hints to suggest his wrist is causing him enough problems to alter his game.

We can go in circles about what's wrong with Crosby, but it's not his skill or speed deteriorating. Again, MacKinnon isn't some young Crosby part deux tearing up the league with his speed. The guy has had a ****** year. Crosby has had plenty of incredible bursts of speed this year. Mostly though, he is pulling back and it's mental. I'm positive of that.

If Crosby starts taking the body and taking the puck to the net again, it will be a world of difference in his game. If he cuts agt the grain and brings the puck between the circles, it will create havoc as well.

Mostly, he tries to beat guys straight on and loses the puck, stays outside the circles and looks for the back door or trailer, etc. He isn't really doing anything that systematic hockey isn't designed to shut down.

 

[Til the End of Time]

It's silly for anyone to say how MacKinnon is flying around looking like the old Crosby, when the guy has had an extremely bad year and was just riding the bench.

Crosby doesn't look like the old Crosby because teams are back to playing clutch and grab hockey. When Crosby first came into the league, you weren't allowed to interfere and water ski on the stars. So it was a lot easier to skate around and make plays back then. Each year it has gotten progressively worse. He also scored a bunch of his goals in the paint and drove the net consistently back then.

The difference between Crosby and Malkin right now, is a willingness to take the puck to the net. Almost all of Malkin's goals lately have been created because he is playing between the circles and driving the net without fear. It makes Malkin much harder to defend and less predictable.

Crosby isn't really working well with his linemates or taking the puck to the net, which makes it impossible to be effective with teams mucking it up so often now.

It's rare to see Crosby lay the body, cut across the grain in the circles with the puck, drive the net with the puck, etc these days. I'm 100% sure it isn't declining skills and more of a mental state. I think he has just decided to change the way he plays and all of our *****ing and complaining probably won't change that.

regarding my comments, i was specifically referring to mackinnon last night. watching mackinnon dart around the pens zone, seemingly moving/playing just a hair faster than everyone else on the ice, he absolutely reminded me of a young sid. i am not saying that they are comparable players or even play a particularly similar game, but i saw a bit of sid in mackinnon last night.

when i watch mcdavid play in the o-zone, i also see shades of young sid. its a comparison a lot of people have made.

regarding the second bolded sentence, the current state of officiating is very different and can somewhat account for sids poor play. but you cannot sit there and honestly tell me that sid has the same acceleration, agility, and speed he had when he came into the league. some of his physical skills have certainly declined since he entered the league. some, like his shot, have gotten better. i dont see how that is debatable.

sid has had a significant amount of injuries in his career. it is quite plausible that they have taken their toll.

placing the blame solely on the refs for sid's struggles is a very dishonest and lazy way of assessing his game.

and obviously our *****ing and complaining won't change how sid plays. everything we say here is inconsequential. i dont see how pointing that out adds anything to the discussion.

 

[Wes C Addle]

It's silly for anyone to say how MacKinnon is flying around looking like the old Crosby, when the guy has had an extremely bad year and was just riding the bench.

Crosby doesn't look like the old Crosby because teams are back to playing clutch and grab hockey. When Crosby first came into the league, you weren't allowed to interfere and water ski on the stars. So it was a lot easier to skate around and make plays back then. Each year it has gotten progressively worse. He also scored a bunch of his goals in the paint and drove the net consistently back then.

The difference between Crosby and Malkin right now, is a willingness to take the puck to the net. Almost all of Malkin's goals lately have been created because he is playing between the circles and driving the net without fear. It makes Malkin much harder to defend and less predictable.

Crosby isn't really working well with his linemates or taking the puck to the net, which makes it impossible to be effective with teams mucking it up so often now.

It's rare to see Crosby lay the body, cut across the grain in the circles with the puck, drive the net with the puck, etc these days. I'm 100% sure it isn't declining skills and more of a mental state. I think he has just decided to change the way he plays and all of our *****ing and complaining probably won't change that.

I think this is a good observation. For whatever reason, he almost seems disconnected from both Perron and Hornqvist. When he was clicking with Kunitz and Dupuis in years past, you could see for the most part how in tune that line was with each other. It seemed they always knew where to find each other. Now I'm not suggesting that those two should ever be flanked on his wings again, that line was indeed shut down against stiffer competition especially in the playoffs, but I wouldn't say it was because they lacked a strategy/identify or didn't mesh as much as it was because of limitations of the talent.

I don't know what it will take for Sid to find a line similar to that again. More talent? Sid changing his game? It's just frustrating to watch that line. You can see sequences where they're one step or play away from creating a great scoring chance, but someone doesn't anticipate where one of the others is going/has gone. I see this a lot with Hornqvist where maybe Perron or Crosby are trying to work a little give and go but never get the puck back. But really they're all guilty of plays like that.

I would agree Sid isn't driving the middle enough either, that's a very fair critique. I've never seen him pass back to the point so much in my life. I think if Hornqvist could exercise a little more patience with the puck on occasion while Sid simultaneously became a bit more aggressive with pushing the play, perhaps those 3 could gel a bit better. I'm trying to be hopeful that this is something that still can be achieved for this season. The talent with those three are there to make a line work, it's just a matter of seeing if the individuals are willing to tweak/change their approaches up a bit to making it successful.

 

[plaidchuck]

Imo it's kind of obvious that either a doctor told him or he himself decided to change the way he plays for his overall health during and after his career. The next few years he'll either become an yzerman two way guy or a thornton assist machine player. My money is on being a thornton perimeter type.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Imo it's kind of obvious that either a doctor told him or he himself decided to change the way he plays for his overall health during and after his career. The next few years he'll either become an yzerman two way guy or a thornton assist machine player. My money is on being a thornton perimeter type.

Like I've said before none of it really accounts for his lack of speed (for him of course). He's taken the puck and flown through the neutral zone in like 5 games this year. That has nothing to do with going or not going into the dirty areas.

 

[plaidchuck]

Like I've said before none of it really accounts for his lack of speed (for him of course). He's taken the puck and flown through the neutral zone in like 5 games this year. That has nothing to do with going or not going into the dirty areas.

True and the officiating can account for that. So now basically he can't get open space to skate, won't go to the net or play below the goal line, has horrible judgement when to pass, and also won't shoot when he has an opportunity.

 

[AquaticBirdman]

Until the league adjusted to Crosby not being a threat to score, or go to the dirty areas. Then that line was shut down.

Perron gave Sid a temporary boast, until the league realized Crosby isn't a threat to score or go to the dirty areas, and they shut him down.

IF we want to point out the most obvious difference in Sid's game it would have to be this. For whatever reason he's just not going to the net like he used to, and instead seems to AVOID it as much as possible.

 

[Captain Hook]

I think the concussion changed Sid. My guess is he changed his game to be more careful after coming back from the concussion issues and he's never really shaked those safer habits and gotten his game back to where it was pre-concussion. He used to park himself in tough areas and was a deflection machine the year he got that initial concussion. He rarely seems to score a deflection goal these days.

Also, I don't know if it's more clutch and grab, just the Pens, a league wide thing, or something else, but watching the game is like watching paint dry this year. I couldn't get enough hockey once upon a time. Now I'm bored and restless not even halfway through a game.

I suppose some of it may be the increased clutch and grab creeping in that some people were posting about. Some of it is probably the fact we can't score like we used to. The drop in offense is not totally surprising when you consider the decline of Kunitz, a little bit of a downgrade from Neal to Hornqvist in terms of pure scoring and Sid and Geno's down year.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

regarding my comments, i was specifically referring to mackinnon last night. watching mackinnon dart around the pens zone, seemingly moving/playing just a hair faster than everyone else on the ice, he absolutely reminded me of a young sid. i am not saying that they are comparable players or even play a particularly similar game, but i saw a bit of sid in mackinnon last night.

when i watch mcdavid play in the o-zone, i also see shades of young sid. its a comparison a lot of people have made.

regarding the second bolded sentence, the current state of officiating is very different and can somewhat account for sids poor play. but you cannot sit there and honestly tell me that sid has the same acceleration, agility, and speed he had when he came into the league. some of his physical skills have certainly declined since he entered the league. some, like his shot, have gotten better. i dont see how that is debatable.

sid has had a significant amount of injuries in his career. it is quite plausible that they have taken their toll.

placing the blame solely on the refs for sid's struggles is a very dishonest and lazy way of assessing his game.

and obviously our *****ing and complaining won't change how sid plays. everything we say here is inconsequential. i dont see how pointing that out adds anything to the discussion.

I haven't seen any decline in Crosby's speed anymore than I have seen in Malkin. Malkin has had a number of knee injuries and you would certainly see it with him. The difference between the two is that Malkin isn't afraid to take the puck into the dirty areas of the ice. That makes a massive difference.

Again, keep in mind that MacKinnon and Yakupov are two of the fastest guys in the league and their speed isn't turning them into superstars. Both guys are struggling.

I can tell you from experience that it's safer to try and beat guys straight on, than to beat them to the outside and drive the net or cut back agt the grain. Most of the greats I've seen play would always cut back agt the grain and get out of their lanes. Crosby rarely does it anymore and it is something he is making a conscious choice to do. I've lost count how many times I see an open lane for him to cut back into, and he just flat out refuses to do it. I know he sees them though. I'm quite sure of that.

His puck decisions also have nothing to do with declining skill. It's just a guy trying to do too much, but he doesn't seem willing to get outside of his comfort zone of playing outside the circles with the puck. I think he is trying to find a way to play the game effectively without putting himself in vulnerable positions to get popped.

 

[Shady Machine]

I think this is a good observation. For whatever reason, he almost seems disconnected from both Perron and Hornqvist. When he was clicking with Kunitz and Dupuis in years past, you could see for the most part how in tune that line was with each other. It seemed they always knew where to find each other. Now I'm not suggesting that those two should ever be flanked on his wings again, that line was indeed shut down against stiffer competition especially in the playoffs, but I wouldn't say it was because they lacked a strategy/identify or didn't mesh as much as it was because of limitations of the talent.

I don't know what it will take for Sid to find a line similar to that again. More talent? Sid changing his game? It's just frustrating to watch that line. You can see sequences where they're one step or play away from creating a great scoring chance, but someone doesn't anticipate where one of the others is going/has gone. I see this a lot with Hornqvist where maybe Perron or Crosby are trying to work a little give and go but never get the puck back. But really they're all guilty of plays like that.

I would agree Sid isn't driving the middle enough either, that's a very fair critique. I've never seen him pass back to the point so much in my life. I think if Hornqvist could exercise a little more patience with the puck on occasion while Sid simultaneously became a bit more aggressive with pushing the play, perhaps those 3 could gel a bit better. I'm trying to be hopeful that this is something that still can be achieved for this season. The talent with those three are there to make a line work, it's just a matter of seeing if the individuals are willing to tweak/change their approaches up a bit to making it successful.

I hate to call out Sid, because we have plenty of posters going over the top after he has a poor game, but he needs to learn how to play with someone other than Kunitz or Dupuis. Geno has had a ridiculous revolving door of linemates and he has been fine. KCD didn't get it done in the playoffs so JR finally got Sid top 6 wingers in their prime. It will take some time to work out the kinks, but Sid needs to make it work.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Honestly I really think it comes down to the fact that Crosby is just not a great finesse player like most of the all-time greats of his caliber and above. Sure he has great vision, but his passes have always been flat and without touch. I think his assists are more from just how good he is in general, how hard he works, and the opportunities he creates, which is fine, but in terms of linemates he doesn't evolve players or find chemistry with certain ones like a Malkin or Lemieux-type player. Basically it's just about keeping up with him in a straight line.

 

[member 51464]

Is Crosby's MO still to storm into the offensive zone, support be damned, and either turn it over in a crowd of defenders or drop pass to no one? It'd be nice if he got rid of that part of his game and used his skilled teammates.

We should scratch the mother ****er a few games if he keeps playing like ****.

 

[Will Hunting]

Yeah, we are not winning a thing with Kunitz in a TOP6. He´s performing like this way too often.

I´m giving Crosby a pass until playoffs but if he doesn´t excel there, then I´m going to change my mind about my favourite player. Pathetic game played by him tonight.

Also, whatever sexy drive that Perron had for the first 10-15 games in Pens uniform is gone. Another ghost in our lineup these days.

 

[Captain Hook]

Yeah, we are not winning a thing with Kunitz in a TOP6. He´s performing like this way too often.

I´m giving Crosby a pass until playoffs but if he doesn´t excel there, then I´m going to change my mind about my favourite player. Pathetic game played by him tonight.

Also, whatever sexy drive that Perron had for the first 10-15 games in Pens uniform is gone. Another ghost in our lineup these days.

I wouldn't call him a ghost. He has some pretty epic battles in front of the net whenever his line gets possession of the puck in the offensive zone.

He's certainly cooled off in the goal scoring department but that was bound to happen. He's good but he isn't 50 goal pace good. He's also not getting top PP time anymore and that's hurt him.

 

[zhenyas most fly rep]

I don't know if anybody else noticed but watching the avs feed last night


what Gary Agnew drew on the dry-erase board during the last minute TO :

-------------87
-----------72

39--------14--------71

-----------58




what happened a few seconds later :


-------------71
-----------72

39--------14--------87

-----------58

And yeah 71 and 87 had a few oportunities to switch but didnt.

Not reading too much into it obviously but found that interesting nonetheless.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

I wouldn't call him a ghost. He has some pretty epic battles in front of the net whenever his line gets possession of the puck in the offensive zone.

He's certainly cooled off in the goal scoring department but that was bound to happen. He's good but he isn't 50 goal pace good. He's also not getting top PP time anymore and that's hurt him.

Ya 32 goal pace since he came here and 3 pts in his last 5 games is pretty much what we would like from him. Point production a little lower than I'd like but he's serving his primary function and I see the guy hustle and fight for ground, so while he does play pretty quiet a lot of games I don't see any reason to mention him specifically.

 

[ColePens]

The consistency of Sid's inconsistent play is quite documented here. The guy still has all the wheels in the world and all the skill, but putting it together in a thought process for a determined 60 minute game is not his forte as of right now. He played 9 STRONG periods and then went right back into his bad habits after a layoff.

I'm not against benching anyone. It would send a clear message and one he needs to receive.

I also laugh when people think there is a proverbial switch for the playoffs. That doesn't happen. That is the guy you are getting for the postseason. You just have to hope that he finds one of his grooves but so far this year, we cannot guess which Sid will show up. That's not healthy.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

I don't know if anybody else noticed but watching the avs feed last night


what Gary Agnew drew on the dry-erase board during the last minute TO :

-------------87
-----------72

39--------14--------71

-----------58




what happened a few seconds later :


-------------71
-----------72

39--------14--------87

-----------58

And yeah 71 and 87 had a few oportunities to switch but didnt.

Not reading too much into it obviously but found that interesting nonetheless.

Certainly interesting.

 

[Fordy]

Crosby is afraid, I said it in the GDT, there was a play where he was at the side of the net and horny threw the puck at the net, and he flinched. Never seen that before

 

[Will Hunting]

I wouldn't call him a ghost. He has some pretty epic battles in front of the net whenever his line gets possession of the puck in the offensive zone.

He's certainly cooled off in the goal scoring department but that was bound to happen. He's good but he isn't 50 goal pace good. He's also not getting top PP time anymore and that's hurt him.

That drop-off in Perron´s play is pretty significant, though. Just eye-test, I´m not using stats here. He looks slower now and that sexy dangling is not there, he´s not beating guys 1-on-1 anymore (last 2 weeks or so). He´s also shooting less, it seems. Maybe I was expecting waay too much from him after that hot start and there were people calling for LONG EXTENSION like 6x6M etc.. but yeah, it won´t be so easy & we need to see some more games and more consistency from Perron to truly evaluate him.

Just my 2 cents. Still, he has the right to have some off-games here and there, because he showed a lot of promise so far and he isn´t paid 9 million like Crosby (who´s rightfully criticized for the games like these). But it´s fair to admit the truth, Perron is not that good lately.

 

[Rocket of Russia]

Yeah, we are not winning a thing with Kunitz in a TOP6. He´s performing like this way too often.

I´m giving Crosby a pass until playoffs but if he doesn´t excel there, then I´m going to change my mind about my favourite player. Pathetic game played by him tonight.

Also, whatever sexy drive that Perron had for the first 10-15 games in Pens uniform is gone. Another ghost in our lineup these days.

That guy had 3 separate epic battles in that game. And where were you expecting these 1-1s to occur for him? He's not getting any room to maneuver out there. In all honesty Sid was given way more room to operate than Perron last night. Sid chose to not take it.

Also, "sexy drive" is such a subjective way to describe a guy's play that I can't help but point out there isn't going to be much more to an argument on this other than "he isn't as sexy - his lack of production says so." 87 was line 1's problem last night, not 39.

 

[ColePens]

They were raving about Perron in the post game on the radio. Said he was tremendous.