Post-Game Talk: Avs 3, Pens 1 3/4/2015

[TheSniper26]

Crosby hasn't played up to his usual standard and definitely needs to be better but let's try to keep a little perspective:

Malkin - 1.12 ppg
Crosby - 1.08 ppg
Ovechkin - 1.03 ppg

Sidney Crosby, playing the worst hockey of his career, is currently the second most productive player in the league and nearly on par with Malkin. Again, no doubt that he needs to be better and stats don't tell the whole story, but it's probably not a bad idea to bring down the "OMG HE MAKES 12MIL!" angst just a touch. Crosby, at his worst, is still a top 5 player in the league and absolutely worth his 8.7mil cap hit.

 

[Michael8771*]

When he has a good game, you limit your discussion of Sid's performance to one or two token "Good game by Crosby tonight" posts. When he has a bad game, you make dozens of posts ragging on him about what a disappointment he is.

There definitely seems to be a massive difference in sheer volume of the number of posts you make when he has a bad game compared to when he has a good one.

Because when there are things to complain about people vent. It's a common occurrence here, everybody does it. Case in point, look at the Despres outrage, long threads there as most everyone is upset or disgruntled. Conversely look at the Bortz and Cole deal. Seems that more people like it than not. So guess which one garners more attention here?

 

[gordie]

Here's the problem. The people running this franchise and coaching are trying to make this group of players into something they aren't. Dejan Kovacevic used this line of reasoning for them acquiring Lovejoy. They want to play a skating game and use their speed and a recent example was the game in Washington. Despite the fact they know the lack of being physical will fall squarely on Kris Letang being a target in the playoffs because of him being the catalyst of this speedy transition non-physical game they want to play. What they overlook is this team is 11th in GF and doesn't exactly overwhelm anyone offensively these days. A non-physical game can be played but you better have overwhelming offensive ability and they don't.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

He willingly signed a long term deal here, he knew the score and he gauged this team knowing he had concussion issues. I don't blame him for taking the money on a front loaded contract, that's business I understand that aspect of it as well as anyone. But his play is not commensurate with his salary, not even close. That's on him, and solely on him. He has good wingers now, either produce or GTFO!

Alright, Mark Madden. You're bringing a Hell of an argument to the table. The guy's not a robot. Whether or not you want to accept it, the past decade of what Sid's been through would wear heavily on any player in the world. It's not about "produce or GTFO!" It's about "Man, it sucks that Sid's playing like **** this season. I wonder why." Any rational thinking, sensible person can see what has lead to this point. A generational talent and future first ballot Hall of Famer like Sid doesn't just drop off the face of the Earth. There are very real factors attributing to Sid's play, and they've been piling up for a decade. Does it suck? Yeah, sure it does. We all want to see Sid score 120pts+ every season and lead us in the playoffs with legendary play. Is that realistic, considering the circumstances? Nah, it's not.

What's more realistic? Sid's throwing a tantrum and doesn't want to try to win a Cup anymore since he's won one already and he's "gotten paid," or the past decade of injuries, Shero/Bylsma, and line woes have left a lasting impact on him physically and psychologically and we're seeing the effects this season?

The concussion changed him, no doubt there. How exactly we'll probably never quite know, but that season would have been one for the ages, but because the League loves its grey area it allowed a 4th line scrub to brain him without any consequences. I would say something about what I wish happens to Steckel and his bloodline, but I'll get banned permanently.

The NHL's gotta have its storylines. I still don't think Steckel meant to alter the course of Sid's career, but I absolutely--without a shadow of a doubt--believe that he meant to get a "grey area" shot in at Sid.

To me it's not an injury or a lack of acceleration, age, physical abuse, or any number of other things that people have brought up to excuse how he's playing. For me it's no simpler than him seeing hockey as nothing more than a job now, rather than a passion.

I just see someone who looks at his life, sees personal trophies, a Cup ring, TWO Olympic gold medals where he scored clutch goals in both of the clinching games, and feels it's no longer necessary for him to go out every night and prove he's the best. For me the most disappointing thing by far is that it seems to me that the minute the guy he's going up against decides he's going to compete just as hard, instead of turning it up a notch he kinda just decides "Well, tonight's not my night" and just goes through the motions.

Well, I hope you're wrong. That's a horrible thought, and it would effectively destroy this franchise for the next decade.

I sure as Hell hope you're wrong, and it's a matter of him just having to get beyond the past and fire that fire again, and confidence in himself physically (wrist).

Next season will be very telling. If he continues to play extremely poorly after hopefully getting his wrist repaired and rehabbed, while on a line with Perron and Hornqvist, then I'll start to legitimately worry. Until then, I just have to hold out hope that it's not nearly as bad as we all fear.

 

[Michael8771*]

Crosby hasn't played up to his usual standard and definitely needs to be better but let's try to keep a little perspective:

Malkin - 1.12 ppg
Crosby - 1.08 ppg
Ovechkin - 1.03 ppg

Sidney Crosby, playing the worst hockey of his career, is currently the second most productive player in the league and nearly on par with Malkin. Again, no doubt that he needs to be better and stats don't tell the whole story, but it's probably not a bad idea to bring down the "OMG HE MAKES 12MIL!" angst just a touch. Crosby, at his worst, is still a top 5 player in the league and absolutely worth his 8.7mil cap hit.

Crosby bunches his points together and then disappears for games at a time. His issue is his lack of consistency. Apparently that concept isn't one you're seeing here. And beyond that, 1.08 PPG on a player who averaged 1.41 PPG before this season, is a considerable drop.

 

[Iffyiffiffer]

This effort was really ordinary. Just need to get on a roll and win some big games on the coast.

Yup really no desire to watch if they're going to randomly adjust their level of caring by this amount.

Need to get on a roll though? They decided to get on a roll when they were challenged before the trade deadline and now don't give a damn.

So I don't give a damn again. I won't be watching the next few games. I'm not going to show up for games and then at THEIR choosing be subject to whether they want to play or not.

I was so damn bored this game and I'm not willing to just watch the next several west coast games and risk being that bored again because they simply don't feel like putting forth effort. Just announce the games they're willing to mail in so I can know beforehand what my correct choice in entertainment venues is for that night.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Because when there are things to complain about people vent. It's a common occurrence here, everybody does it. Case in point, look at the Despres outrage, long threads there as most everyone is upset or disgruntled. Conversely look at the Bortz and Cole deal. Seems that more people like it than not. So guess which one garners more attention here?

Okay, put it another way -- when Geno has a bad game, you don't go on and on endlessly about it like you do when Sid does. You may mention how he needs to be better or whatnot in acknowledgement of a less than stellar game, but you don't go on endlessly about his salary or him being a huge disappointment.

But as soon as Sid has a sub par game, you rival the worst Flyers/Rangers fan when it comes to ripping on him. I've just never seen anything like it from a member of his team's fanbase. The vitriol is usually reserved to opposing fans who can't stand "Cindy".

 

[Michael8771*]

Okay, put it another way -- when Geno has a bad game, you don't go on and on endlessly about it like you do when Sid does. You may mention how he needs to be better or whatnot in acknowledgement of a less than stellar game, but you don't go on endlessly about his salary or him being a huge disappointment.

But as soon as Sid has a sub par game, you rival the worst Flyers/Rangers fan when it comes to ripping on him. I've just never seen anything like it from a member of his team's fanbase. The vitriol is usually reserved to opposing fans who can't stand "Cindy".

I've mentioned Geno quite a bit for making ill advised passes just inside the blue line many many times. Or turning over the puck or on occasion having an uneven effort or off night. The difference is, at least this season, he consistently shows up and produces, Sid on the other hand doesn't, not to that degree anyhow. If I'm correct Sid has TEN more scoreless outing this season than Geno does. That's quite a bit. And it's not just scoring, it's the fact that he's a non factor as well.

 

[TheSniper26]

Crosby bunches his points together and then disappears for games at a time. His issue is his lack of consistency. Apparently that concept isn't one you're seeing here. And beyond that, 1.08 PPG on a player who averaged 1.41 PPG before this season, is a considerable drop.

Yes and, as I clearly said in the post you just quoted, stats don't tell the whole story and he needs to be better. Nobody is making excuses for him but it is ok to acknowledge the vast difference between Crosby's down years and every other guy's down years. His play has dropped from "clearly the best player in the league" to simply "one of the best players in the league". What a bum.

 

[MtlPenFan]

I never pass up a chance to post this

Watch Sid on the Avs' second goal. It's just as bad.

 

[canadianguy77]

I'm not going to put a lot of stock into tonight's loss. Locker room was probably a bit different tonight, and sometimes that's enough to throw a team off.

I'm not going to crucify Sid because there were some chances from his line. In the 1st he threaded a pass to Perron that I thought would be a goal for sure. His line had a few decent shifts where there was sustained pressure but by and large Sid wasn't all that effective.

Geno turned it on in the 3rd and Kunitz sucked all game except for one backcheck.

I hope the team uses this roadtrip wisely and can sort of come together during the stretch.

I also hope the coaching staff can get it's **** together before the playoffs.

I hope a lot of things.

 

[deakka]

After a few Days of whining about THE trade. I have now accepted the fact that another dark age will soon come. Since we are so hell bent of going all in every year, we are almost bare in the prospect and pick department.

So i figured i might as well try to enjoy these last years as a contender and brace for the rebuild that HAS to come sometime. We could have just try to rebuild a little bit on the run, but we all now that didnt happen. So a full rebuild are what i expect in a few years. And it wont be pretty.

Ive been throught dark ages before, so i know what its all about, and i didnt abandon the team then, and i wont the next revbuild either. I really enjoy both the draft and prospect developement. One has to think that this board will get a lot less visitors though

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

Watch Sid on the Avs' second goal. It's just as bad.

That's not a first for him.

 

[Michael8771*]

Yes and, as I clearly said in the post you just quoted, stats don't tell the whole story and he needs to be better. Nobody is making excuses for him but it is ok to acknowledge the vast difference between Crosby's down years and every other guy's down years. His play has dropped from "clearly the best player in the league" to simply "one of the best players in the league". What a bum.

TBH he was a bum tonight, and tonight isn't really the exception here. It's unfortunately starting to become the rule. The more he plays, the more he falters. He's letting everyone down, just accept it.

 

[Michael8771*]

That's not a first for him.

Doesn't look like a guy earning a 12 million dollar annual salary now does he.

 

[cygnus47]

Pretty boring and disappointing game. We didn't try to get after them for most of the game even though we were trailing. A couple bright spots for Geno but he was mostly invisible too. Perron was visible after having a few dud games, but like Sid he just doesn't seem to be in the right spots much these days. Horny was as good as usual but he didn't have much help out there. We spent far too much time in our own zone against a weak team because we couldn't be bothered putting in the effort. I did like Cole a lot actually, he made a lot of smart little plays. If he keeps it simple he'll be a real asset possession wise. Didn't notice Lovejoy out there much but that's to be expected.

It was always a trap game and we didn't show the professionalism to win.

 

[kbuck8851]

Actually, I'd like to see him succeed, simply because I want the Pens to succeed. And when he plays a good game, I give him credit as I would anyone else. So, you couldn't be more wrong, at least on this matter.

The difference between me and the crosby fanbois is I tell it like it is and don't sugarcoat it. I expect a 12 million dollar player to play like it, the same goes for Geno.

I can't help but notice your use of "fanboi" instead of fanboy, was wondering if this points to your true issues with Crosby no?

 

[rintinw]

Malkin's TOI since december. Average 17:45

MAR 4 '15 PIT @ COL 18:10
MAR 1 '15 CBJ @ PIT 17:55
FEB 25 '15 PIT @ WSH 15:55
FEB 22 '15 FLA @ PIT 16:14
FEB 21 '15 PIT @ STL 17:14
FEB 19 '15 CBJ @ PIT 20:25
FEB 17 '15 WSH @ PIT 18:59
FEB 15 '15 PIT @ CHI 18:24
FEB 12 '15 PIT @ OTT 18:04
FEB 11 '15 DET @ PIT 17:07
FEB 7 '15 PIT @ VAN 16:26
FEB 6 '15 PIT @ CGY 18:46
FEB 4 '15 PIT @ EDM 16:59
JAN 20 '15 PIT @ PHI 16:31
JAN 18 '15 NYR @ PIT 18:31
JAN 16 '15 PIT @ NYI 17:40
JAN 13 '15 MIN @ PIT 17:31
JAN 10 '15 PIT @ MTL 18:09
JAN 7 '15 BOS @ PIT 19:26
JAN 3 '15 MTL @ PIT 19:06
JAN 2 '15 TBL @ PIT 14:56

Been noticing that for some time too. It made it kinda funny for me to see posters on main boards moaning about Berube spoiling Voracek Art Ross chances

 

[Michael8771*]

I can't help but notice your use of "fanboi" instead of fanboy, was wondering if this points to your true issues with Crosby no?

Like everyone else thinks, he's been a disappointment with no end in sight. It's that simple.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

Crosby and MAF were the main culprits for our demise tonight. One didn't show up and the other didn't make the big save when we needed it most.

MAF made several saves in the first period on tremendous scoring opportunities and this game would have been over before the 2nd period started had it not been for Fleury. Yes, the Iginla goal was weak but he is not a culprit tonight. The culprit tonight was that nearly everybody playing in front of Flower didn't bother to show up until half way through the 3rd period. Your assesment of Fleury's performance tonight is absolutely ridiculous.

Regarding Sid. Does his play this year warrant criticism? Absolutely. Sid is one of the most consistent players in recent memory yet this year he has been woefully inconsistent. That being said, all the people saying he's finished or that he doesn't care anymore need to step back and look at the big picture. He's having a bad year by his standards. This is his first really bad year and certain people are overreacting. Every other player has had bad years and it is amazing that Sid's first down year is happening after 10 years in the league. He will bounce back eventually. OV finished a season a few years ago with 65 points and look at him now. Anybody who is writing off Sid or trashing him after all he has done for this franchise for 10 years is pretty much just a bandwagon, front-runner fan. Criticize his play by all means, but don't trash his character or motivation because he has proven time and time again that he has both in spades.

 

[Michael8771*]

MAF made several saves in the first period on tremendous scoring opportunities and this game would have been over before the 2nd period started had it not been for Fleury. Yes, the Iginla goal was weak but he is not a culprit tonight. The culprit tonight was that nearly everybody playing in front of Flower didn't bother to show up until half way through the 3rd period. Your assesment of Fleury's performance tonight is absolutely ridiculous.

So, you admit at least one of his goals was weak yet you don't deem him a culprit in our demise? Sorry he's to blame as is many others. Again, you can't give up three goals a game an expect to succeed. More times than not you'll lose. And if 33.3% of your goals in a given game are weak, then yeah there's a problem. The Foligno goal last game was of the weak variety also. I'm not saying he's had a bad season, up until the last few games he's been excellent save a few games about a month ago. But again, he's given up nine goals in his last three games. And three of which I'd deem as ''weak''. This needs to stop.

 

[The Greatest 101]

I'm starting to wonder if Sid is burned out. Between his injuries, years wasted on Bylsma, the direction of the league... Mario got burned out from being a target every game and NHL incompetence, and he had some size to him.

Maybe Crosby misses Bylsma more than anyone.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

So, you admit at least one of his goals was weak yet you don't deem him a culprit in our demise? Sorry he's to blame as is many others. Again, you can't give up three goals a game an expect to succeed. More times than not you'll lose. And if 33.3% of your goals in a given game are weak, then yeah there's a problem. The Foligno goal last game was of the weak variety also. I'm not saying he's had a bad season, up until the last few games he's been excellent save a few games about a month ago. But again, he's given up nine goals in his last three games. And three of which I'd deem as ''weak''. This needs to stop.

Goalies give up weak goals, it happens. What needs to stop is the team playing with apathy far too often. When this team is playing as hard as they should they are one of the better clubs in the league. The problem is they play as hard as they should every once in awhile. You said Fleury was one of the top 2 culprits tonight and that is patently ridiculous. Weak goal or not there were 4 or 5 absolutely incredible saves he made tonight and it could have easily been 3-0 before he ever had a chance to give up that goal to Iginla in the 2nd period. He in no way played a perfect game but he was far from one of the biggest issues tonight. The team scored 1 goal on an incredible individual effort. That was the problem. Erase that Iginla goal and they lose all the same. Fleury was not one of the biggest culprits at all.

 

[GirardIsStupid]

I think you have to give the Avs some credit for their passing today. It was as good as I have seen in a long time. It's possible your team may have underestimated how desperate the Avalanche were going to play today. By the way, I love those GIF's. All great players tend to do some level of coasting. I think it's a safety mechanism to conserve energy. Messi does it all the time now. But, he's still quite productive (if you guys even know who Messi is and, yes, I'm comparing Crosby and Messi to each other).

 

[Michael8771*]

Goalies give up weak goals, it happens. What needs to stop is the team playing with apathy far too often. When this team is playing as hard as they should they are one of the better clubs in the league. The problem is they play as hard as they should every once in awhile. You said Fleury was one of the top 2 culprits tonight and that is patently ridiculous. Weak goal or not there were 4 or 5 absolutely incredible saves he made tonight and it could have easily been 3-0 before he ever had a chance to give up that goal to Iginla in the 2nd period. He in no way played a perfect game but he was far from one of the biggest issues tonight. The team scored 1 goal on an incredible individual effort. That was the problem. Erase that Iginla goal and they lose all the same. Fleury was not one of the biggest culprits at all.

No question the team came out flat, no denying that at all. Beyond that We can agree to disagree, no point in continuing here.