Post-Game Talk: Aves 4 Canucks 2 (Lammikko quest for 0 in 82 is over)

[4Twenty]

Having the #2 HDSV% is a helluva drug. It makes some think the goalie is the problem and the skaters are dominant lol

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

I don't think PoM is off base in saying that the roster on paper before the season started had more promise than basically anything we'd seen in the last 6 years. I realize that isnt saying much but this Canucks roster had the potential to be a solid team in a lousy division - and that sentiment wasn't totally uncommon amongst many 'experts'.

I’d say 2020 post-Toffoli trade was better. The team only started to flounder near the pandemic pause because there were injuries to Boeser, Tanev, and Markstrom.

 

[4Twenty]

I don't think PoM is off base in saying that the roster on paper before the season started had more promise than basically anything we'd seen in the last 6 years. I realize that isnt saying much but this Canucks roster had the potential to be a solid team in a lousy division - and that sentiment wasn't totally uncommon amongst many 'experts'.

To casuals sure. The the people who use statistical modelling no.

 

[4Twenty]

I’d say 2020 post-Toffoli trade was better. The team only started to flounder near the pandemic pause because there were injuries to Boeser, Tanev, and Markstrom.

Not true. They were mediocre at best but relying on Vezina caliber goaltending.

 

[4th line culture]

lmao at thinking Eric Francis is an expert on anything besides Pizza Pigouts or nepotism.

If you exceed expectations and barely make the playoffs wouldnt that mean you were expected to miss the playoffs?

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

lmao at thinking Eric Francis is an expert on anything besides Pizza Pigouts or nepotism.

Eric Francis and Mark Spector both voted that the Canucks would be the most improved team...The only point I'm making is that on paper, they were an improved hockey team over last season..

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Were they right?

Judging by the results ..obviously not.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Not true. They were mediocre at best but relying on Vezina caliber goaltending.

Sure but they had a better defence, arguably a better forward group (I like Toffoli over Garland, but missing Hoglander would suck), and more reason for optimism given the cap space coming off the books before the OEL deal. I’d take that 2020 roster in a playoff series over our current team even before the team shit the bed. That group was clearly more tight and gelled better.

 

[December5th]

Not true. They were mediocre at best but relying on Vezina caliber goaltending.

most fans only look at the result and not the play. thats why only now people are getting pissed off because in their minds 2019-2020 was awesome

 

[likash]

He should change his name to: Jim You Know Benning.
Fredo is such a coward. Always hides when things get tough. At least Jimmy showed his face.

 

[strattonius]

To casuals sure. The the people who use statistical modelling no.

No one predicted an anemic offense, a 9 pts in 17 games Pettersson, and a historically bad PK - the PK alone you could argue is the single largest reason this team is where it is.

You probably didn't predict a bottom 5 in league team after 17 games. And most experts and fans were in the ballpark that this team would be a bubble in or out of playoff team. That isn't casuals which you eloquently condescend.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

most fans only look at the result and not the play. thats why only now people are getting pissed off because in their minds 2019-2020 was awesome

that doesn’t apply to me. I’m aware of the issues of the 2020 team. It’s not that the 2020 team was great, it’s that it was slightly better than this season’s team.

 

[December5th]

that doesn’t apply to me. I’m aware of the issues of the 2020 team. It’s not that the 2020 team was great, it’s that it was slightly better than this season’s team.

i wasn't referring to any posters here. most people here knew 2019 and bubble was not sustainable

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

Eric Francis and Mark Spector both voted that the Canucks would be the most improved team...The only point I'm making is that on paper, they were an improved hockey team over last season..

You were arguing that there were 'a lot' of 'experts' praising the Canucks going into this season. Also, for reference:

This years roster looked pretty good before the season ( a lot experts thought so)..Its not a weak roster

So now we've tap danced away from 'team looks pretty good/strong' (I assume you'd say strong because the opposite of 'weak' is 'strong', but I'm sure there's a mental gymnastic routine to explain away you weren't actually saying the team was 'strong' and have a 20 page derail over that) to 'I'm just saying they had improved.'

Gosh, it's so much fun engaging with someone where language, meaning and intention are about as solid as smoke and grounded as a helium balloon.

I'm disputing that there were 'a lot' or that they should be considered 'experts.' I also took the effort to try and have a more in-depth discussion while acknowledging I may be wrong at interpreting things, but you're choosing to talk about Eric Francis and Mark Spector.

Eric Francis was gifted a position thanks to his mommy and spent his time cutting his teeth writing about pizza parties and social galas. So that leaves...Spector?

One guy. That's virtually unanimous. If we were living in a dictatorship.

This all started with you taking umbrage that EP is going to be the scapegoat and absolving Benning of shitty roster construction.

Really weird what you're picking and choosing to respond to.

"Someone's talking about the team getting caved in defensively? No, no, let's talk about Eric f***ing Francis, the Pizza King of Calgary. Y'know, something that actually matters."

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

You were arguing that there were 'a lot' of 'experts' praising the Canucks going into this season.

I'm disputing that there were 'a lot' or that they should be considered 'experts.'

Eric Francis was gifted a position thanks to his mommy and spent his time cutting his teeth writing about pizza parties and social galas. So that leaves...Spector?

One guy. That's virtually unanimous. If we were living in a dictatorship.

This all started with you taking umbrage that EP is going to be the scapegoat and absolving Benning of shitty roster construction.

Really weird what you're picking and choosing to respond to.

"Someone's talking about the team getting caved in defensively? No, no, let's talk about Eric f***ing Francis, the Pizza King of Calgary. Y'know, something that actually matters."

Naturally, you start attacking Francis...or Mark Spector..or whomever picked the Canucks to an improved squad..The fact that Vancouver is mentioned several times tells you that there was optimism for the core of the team , and the additions to it during the off season.

 

[sting101]

Was at the game and was interesting watching the body language and play off the puck.

i gotta say the very basic fundamental mistakes this team makes is just mind numbing. Played a pretty good game actually 5v5 if you look at the possession and shot metrics but what really stood out to me was how poorly we attack the dangerous areas of the ice and furthermore concede it.

A very simple and important detail when creating quality scoring chances in any league at any age is having the first player joining the attack driving the net. Not only is that player not busting his ass hard enough and going directly enough the propensity of the puck carriers of this team is to take easy ice and curl or edge away and delay or push pucks to safe open areas which are more often that not further away then when they had the initial opportunities. Net drive is delayed and net presence is not taking away the eyes of the goalie instead positioning for rebounds that are not coming.

Defensively the 3rd and 4th player back are so important in assisting the defense and sealing off lanes and taking away the trailer. This team is so lazy and non instinctive with this area of the game it's unreal. You would think after this kinda losing streak that players would at least be willing to outwork others but that's not the case. Brock Boeser is particular was so incredibly lazy off the puck last night and we've seen it from all of them. Technically flawed team that makes enough of these critical coverage mistakes to eventually cost them the type of chances that end up in the back of the net while the opposition rarely does this.

So while we have skill and talent the flaws our forwards have and the lack of attention to detail is killing them game after game after game.......it's insanity.

 

[sting101]

You were arguing that there were 'a lot' of 'experts' praising the Canucks going into this season. Also, for reference:



So now we've tap danced away from 'team looks pretty good/strong' to 'I'm just saying they had improved.'

Gosh, it's so much fun engaging with someone where language, meaning and intention are about as solid as smoke and grounded as a helium balloon.

I'm disputing that there were 'a lot' or that they should be considered 'experts.' I also took the effort to try and have a more in-depth discussion while acknowledging I may be wrong at interpreting things, but you're choosing to talk about Eric Francis and Mark Spector.

Eric Francis was gifted a position thanks to his mommy and spent his time cutting his teeth writing about pizza parties and social galas. So that leaves...Spector?

One guy. That's virtually unanimous. If we were living in a dictatorship.

This all started with you taking umbrage that EP is going to be the scapegoat and absolving Benning of shitty roster construction.

Really weird what you're picking and choosing to respond to.

"Someone's talking about the team getting caved in defensively? No, no, let's talk about Eric f***ing Francis, the Pizza King of Calgary. Y'know, something that actually matters."

Both David Amber and Elliott Friedman picked the Canucks 2nd in the division

 

[Zippgunn]

Bill LaForge's tenure as head coach is pretty much accepted as *THE* worst in Canucks history.

His record: 4-14-2 (after 20 games)
Travis "respected by all the players in the NHL" Green: 5-10-2 (after 17 games)

...but Willie D....

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

Naturally, you start attacking Francis...or Mark Spector..or whomever picked the Canucks to an improved squad..The fact that Vancouver is mentioned several times tells you that there was optimism for the core of the team , and the additions to it during the off season.

What the hell am I supposed to do?

You've flat out ignored other posts talking about the defensive nature of the team and other points, etc. in favor of talking about 'experts' and Eric Francis specifically.

You're flip-flopping on what you were saying (going from talking about the team being 'good' to 'I'm just saying they've improved, you guys...')

I'm engaging you on your terms with your bullshit talking points.

 

[4Twenty]

Was at the game and was interesting watching the body language and play off the puck.

i gotta say the very basic fundamental mistakes this team makes is just mind numbing. Played a pretty good game actually 5v5 if you look at the possession and shot metrics but what really stood out to me was how poorly we attack the dangerous areas of the ice and furthermore concede it.

A very simple and important detail when creating quality scoring chances in any league at any age is having the first player joining the attack driving the net. Not only is that player not busting his ass hard enough and going directly enough the propensity of the puck carriers of this team is to take easy ice and curl or edge away and delay or push pucks to safe open areas which are more often that not further away then when they had the initial opportunities. Net drive is delayed and soft and net presence is not taking away the eyes of the goalie instead positioning for rebounds that are not coming.

Defensively the 3rd and 4th player back are so important in assisting the defense and sealing off lanes and taking away the trailer. This team is so lazy and non instinctive with this area of the game it's unreal. You would think after this kinda losing streak that players would at least be willing to outwork others but that's not the case. Brock Boeser is particular was so incredibly lazy off the puck last night and we've seen it from all of them. Technically flawed team that makes enough of these critical coverage mistakes to eventually cost them the type of chances that end up in the back of the net while the opposition rarely does this.

So while we have skill and talent the flaws our forwards have and the lack of attention to detail is killing them game after game after game.......it's insanity.

When the details stink as well as the special teams you only have one reason. Coaching.

Also from home on the Couch the game looked even in the numbers because of score effects and Colorado had 3 5on5 chances and a penalty drawn in the first 5 minutes.

They then looked disinterested and cruised until going behind, shifted from 2nd gear to 3rd, drew some PP’s, took the lead then expertly ran off the clock.

What would you say the percentage of seats filled were. Apparently top 5 in attendance but doesn’t come across on tv. Looks like 75% in lower bowl.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

What the hell am I supposed to do?

You've flat out ignored other posts talking about the defensive nature of the team and other points, etc. in favor of talking about 'experts' and Eric Francis specifically.

You're flip-flopping on what you were saying (going from talking about the team being 'good' to 'I'm just saying they've improved, you guys...')

I'm engaging you on your terms with your bullshit talking points.

Every conversation I have with you, ends up being reduced to snarky name calling (I've noticed you do this with other posters as well)..so I usually don't bother engaging with you..Anyway, back here again I see..Have a good day.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

Also, for emphasis, Pommy:

Really weird what you're picking and choosing to respond to.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

Every conversation I have with you, ends up being reduced to snarky name calling (I've noticed you do this with other posters as well)..so I usually don't bother engaging with you..Anyway, back here again I see..Have a good day.

Please find another example where I've engaged in 'snarky name calling' with you or anyone else. This is literally the first time (to the best of my recollection) that I've addressed you with a hockey-inspired moniker. Maybe I've done so in the past, but I've never tried to belittle someone based off of their username (that's usually the realm of folks like you. eg, "HURR DURR YOUR CRITICISM OF BENNING IS AWESOME IN THEORY")

But yeah. Anything but address actual valid talking points.

 

[RandV]

What would you say the percentage of seats filled were. Apparently top 5 in attendance but doesn’t come across on tv. Looks like 75% in lower bowl.

Also explained by the Canucks having the lowest resale ticket value in the league. Tickets are sold, but holders aren't interested in going, and no one wants to buy them. For the Aquilini's you could say they don't need to care because they got their money anyways, but people not using their tickets and not being able to resell them are quickly going to lead to ticket holders cancelling next season.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

@Pastor Of Muppetz

I'm not sure I share your enthusiasm.

Part of the problem with this team is that it is very top heavy. For whatever inexplicable reason, Chaisson has effectively gotten a free ride through most of the shit show and while we've had the NHL equivalent of flotsam and jetsam with guys like Lammikko, miscast players (Dickinson, which some folks around here weren't sold on but were pooh-poohed as per usual) combined with bizarre configurations and deployments (hi yes, f*** you Garland, you're getting in the way of the Alex Chaisson Experience. Go ride shotgun with Dickinson.)

And the reason why people speculated that the team was going to be bad defensively is because of possession issues. Which seems to be borne out -- bad possession teams chase, take penalties and get bent over on the PK. Which is exactly what we're seeing play out here.

I will freely admit I haven't been able to watch all the games as closely as I've been wanting to due to work being a bitch for me so I could be wrong with some of these assumptions.

The only real positive and thing that folks got "wrong" was that OEL wasn't a flaming tire fire on first arrival. Which is fine, but he's not the Norris candidate Benning pegged him as and he's been at best a lateral move from Edler. Not good when the team wasn't particularly great last season, either.

A throwaway line about Eric Francis