Post-Game Talk: Aves 4 Canucks 2 (Lammikko quest for 0 in 82 is over)

[CpatainCanuck]

None of the fans.?..all people are posting are tiny pockets of 15 fans yelling..that not even moving the needle.

Excluding Seattle, Between the 2015/16 season and today, the Canucks have the 5th worst winning percentage in the NHL. They are 2 points in 6+ seasons up from 3rd worst overall.

In other words, the Canucks have been rebuild-worthy sucking under Benning without properly rebuilding. Do you get it now?

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

Honestly....imo..This years roster looked pretty good before the season ( a lot experts thought so)..Its not a weak roster..At the beginning of the year, we thought that the D would be the achilles heel...Not the case..The killer has been special teams, and our top line (especially at ES, and on the PP)

I'm not sure I share your enthusiasm.

Part of the problem with this team is that it is very top heavy. For whatever inexplicable reason, Chaisson has effectively gotten a free ride through most of the shit show and while we've had the NHL equivalent of flotsam and jetsam with guys like Lammikko, miscast players (Dickinson, which some folks around here weren't sold on but were pooh-poohed as per usual) combined with bizarre configurations and deployments (hi yes, f*** you Garland, you're getting in the way of the Alex Chaisson Experience. Go ride shotgun with Dickinson.)

And the reason why people speculated that the team was going to be bad defensively is because of possession issues. Which seems to be borne out -- bad possession teams chase, take penalties and get bent over on the PK. Which is exactly what we're seeing play out here.

I will freely admit I haven't been able to watch all the games as closely as I've been wanting to due to work being a bitch for me so I could be wrong with some of these assumptions.

The only real positive and thing that folks got "wrong" was that OEL wasn't a flaming tire fire on first arrival. Which is fine, but he's not the Norris candidate Benning pegged him as and he's been at best a lateral move from Edler. Not good when the team wasn't particularly great last season, either.

 

[ChuckNorris4Cup]

Can't say if true or not but came across this tweet.

 

[God]

Can't say if true or not but came across this tweet.

It's true.

 

[Bougieman]

Blackhawks before firing coach
1-9-2

Blackhawks with new coach
4-0-0

I'll be 5-0 when they beat us easily on Sunday, as well.

 

[Peter10]

Honestly....imo..This years roster looked pretty good before the season ( a lot experts thought so)..Its not a weak roster..At the beginning of the year, we thought that the D would be the achilles heel...Not the case..The killer has been special teams, and our top line (especially at ES, and on the PP)

Like who? Most I remember had them as a playoff bubble team and most of the analytical models even out of it.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Like who? Most I remember had them as a playoff bubble team and most of the analytical models even out of it.

Team most likely to exceed expectations:
Elliotte Friedman: I was going to pick New Jersey, but with MacKenzie Blackwood's situation uncertain, I'm going with Winnipeg
Caroline Cameron: Vancouver
David Amber: Philadelphia
Jeff Marek: Los Angeles
Luke Fox: Winnipeg
Eric Francis: Vancouver
Gene Principe: Seattle
Gord Stellick: Los Angeles
Ken Wiebe: Vancouver
Sean Reynolds: Chicago
Dan Murphy: Los Angeles
Justin Bourne: Carolina
Nick Kypreos: Islanders
Eric Engels: Calgary
Christine Simpson: Ottawa
Ryan Dixon: Calgary
Iain MacIntyre: Seattle
Mark Spector: Vancouver

The top 2 experts from our main rivals Calgary and Edmonton thought that the Canucks were going to take a huge step this season....

 

[likash]

Team most likely to exceed expectations:
Elliotte Friedman: I was going to pick New Jersey, but with MacKenzie Blackwood's situation uncertain, I'm going with Winnipeg
Caroline Cameron: Vancouver
David Amber: Philadelphia
Jeff Marek: Los Angeles
Luke Fox: Winnipeg
Eric Francis: Vancouver
Gene Principe: Seattle
Gord Stellick: Los Angeles
Ken Wiebe: Vancouver
Sean Reynolds: Chicago
Dan Murphy: Los Angeles
Justin Bourne: Carolina
Nick Kypreos: Islanders
Eric Engels: Calgary
Christine Simpson: Ottawa
Ryan Dixon: Calgary
Iain MacIntyre: Seattle
Mark Spector: Vancouver

The top 2 experts from our main rivals Calgary and Edmonton thought that the Canucks were going to take a huge step this season....

You are doing serious overtime now that Jimmy is feeling the heat

 

[Peter10]

Team most likely to exceed expectations:
Elliotte Friedman: I was going to pick New Jersey, but with MacKenzie Blackwood's situation uncertain, I'm going with Winnipeg
Caroline Cameron: Vancouver
David Amber: Philadelphia
Jeff Marek: Los Angeles
Luke Fox: Winnipeg
Eric Francis: Vancouver
Gene Principe: Seattle
Gord Stellick: Los Angeles
Ken Wiebe: Vancouver
Sean Reynolds: Chicago
Dan Murphy: Los Angeles
Justin Bourne: Carolina
Nick Kypreos: Islanders
Eric Engels: Calgary
Christine Simpson: Ottawa
Ryan Dixon: Calgary
Iain MacIntyre: Seattle
Mark Spector: Vancouver

The top 2 experts from our main rivals Calgary and Edmonton thought that the Canucks were going to take a huge step this season....

Any non sportsnet experts? I am also not sure why you would put any stock in beat reports of other teams. I mean I wouldnt really bother what IMac thinks about the Senators but then again I dont even put much credibility in anything he reports on the Canucks either.

 

[AzNightmare]

HockeyBuzz.com - Eklund - Spoiler Alert: Eklund Tells you EXACTLY What will Happen in 21-22;Tues Buzz

looll.. Canucks / Rangers finals.

 

[tantalum]

First the fundamental problem for this team is obvious. The roster build, depth etc is just awful. That's on Benning (and likely FA) and that's where change needs to happen to actually move forward.

However, I am getting tired of hearing people like Hirsch, Farhan and even Drance talk about how good a coach Green is. I think if he had a team that actually had an NHL blueline, NHL 4th line, and NHL depth he can probably "coach" them to a playoff spot. I don't believe he can get anything extra out of a roster. I mentioned it last night several times...this team had a 60% penalty kill. A PK that has been just dreadful for a dozen games. A NHL coach changes his personnel when things stumble let alone when it's this bad. The only thing the coaching staff has done is put Motte on the PK since he came back from injury.

It's so bad some of us were celebrating Miller intercepting a cross ice pass on the PK. The first time that happened in what seemed like weeks. Just put some other players out there. Maybe putting Pettersson and Boeser out there and see what happens. Does it light a fire under them by giving them some responsibility? Put Garland and Podz out. Put Hughes out there. No longer is the crease area on a PK a rough and tumble cross check fest. It's not that physical. But they could sure use his stick skill down low to stop those cross crease passes. Would likely lose body position battles but no one else is winning those.

Not saying it's the solution but what's the worst that can happen? They get scored on 3 times in a game? It literally can't get worse.

That said at least those aforementioned media (except Farhan who wants to take the FA route and blame the players) are putting the focus on management.

I'm also annoyed at the media starting to pretend they are this great 5-on-5 team. They had circles skated around them for the first 12 minutes. They laid an egg the last 15 minutes of the third. This team looks OK at ES generally when they are trailing the game. And in the end haven't we all seen enough in the last 7+ seasons to realize that even if the PK was working or the PP was working they'd find a different way to lose? It's what a badly constructed roster does. Even last night in a "good game" the expected goals was essentially 3-3. Overall they don't really truly outplay a team. That has a lot to do with forgetting to show up for those first 12 minutes and the final 10.

I'm done with moral victories and feel good moments. The team needs to actually perform (it won't) or the changes need to made starting at the top (also won't happen). We're in purgatory folks.

 

[Diversification]

I do...still have a half season worth of tickets to dump.

I'm certainly not prepared to go to the games myself.

Are you intending to renew?

 

[DFAC]

HockeyBuzz.com - Eklund - Spoiler Alert: Eklund Tells you EXACTLY What will Happen in 21-22;Tues Buzz

looll.. Canucks / Rangers finals.

Travis Green for Jack Adams

 

[Peter10]

HockeyBuzz.com - Eklund - Spoiler Alert: Eklund Tells you EXACTLY What will Happen in 21-22;Tues Buzz

looll.. Canucks / Rangers finals.

Ah, this is the expert PoM was speaking of in the Management thread.

 

[tantalum]

Wild
this is now the worst PK in history right now
Like there there is a bunch of years where they weren't tracked
but of the years NHL.com has tracked which is awhile
it is now the worst ever
so you got all the 70', 80's, 90's, 2000's up to now.

We're Number 1! We're Number 1!

Maybe that's what Jim and Travis are doing...sorting things in ascending order and making it look like they are at the top of the league.

I didn't watch the game...but 3 PP goals against? I thought they were solving that.

Gross.

Fire Green, and if that doesn't work immediately, fire Benning on the spot. Their lame duck streak has to come to an end.

They solved it like they solve everything else. They tried the exact same thing.

Somehow it didn't work. Strange.

 

[604]

Are you intending to renew?

Likely not.

I've cancelled after the 2012-13 season and re-upped a couple of years ago on a whim.

Just isn't that compelling a thing to make time for.

 

[Hit the post]

Likely not.

I've cancelled after the 2012-13 season and re-upped a couple of years ago on a whim.

Just isn't that compelling a thing to make time for.

Make sure you tell them why you’re not renewing. Might be wishful thinking considering DimJim has been here so long but maybe if they hear from enough disgruntled season ticket holders Frankie will do something.

 

[Lonny Bohonos]

*Sniff sniff*

Im kinda proud fans managed to chant "Fire Benning" instead of idiotically chanting "Fire Green".

 

[Sedinery]

*Sniff sniff*

Im kinda proud fans managed to chant "Fire Benning" instead of idiotically chanting "Fire Green".

Why? You feel Green is anything close to a real coach? Seriously

 

[Diversification]

Make sure you tell them why you’re not renewing. Might be wishful thinking considering DimJim has been here so long but maybe if they hear from enough disgruntled season ticket holders Frankie will do something.

Enough of them listing the same reasons might actually break through.

 

[Diversification]

Can't say if true or not but came across this tweet.

Love it. Shades of Al Jaffee at Mad Magazine.

 

[Sedinery]

Travis f ing Green throws out the standard third person narrative that the pk was to blame and imac just eats it up and runs with it. He is such a Canucks suck up

here are the facts Travis:
- you are the Head Coach, buck stops with you
- all coaches report to the Head Coach
- losing a “close” game counts for shit
- you are a sub 500 loser nhl coach
- this year tops your worst record with your best roster
- its you travis, not some mystery pk gremlin

 

[Canucker]

First the fundamental problem for this team is obvious. The roster build, depth etc is just awful. That's on Benning (and likely FA) and that's where change needs to happen to actually move forward.

However, I am getting tired of hearing people like Hirsch, Farhan and even Drance talk about how good a coach Green is. I think if he had a team that actually had an NHL blueline, NHL 4th line, and NHL depth he can probably "coach" them to a playoff spot. I don't believe he can get anything extra out of a roster. I mentioned it last night several times...this team had a 60% penalty kill. A PK that has been just dreadful for a dozen games. A NHL coach changes his personnel when things stumble let alone when it's this bad. The only thing the coaching staff has done is put Motte on the PK since he came back from injury.

It's so bad some of us were celebrating Miller intercepting a cross ice pass on the PK. The first time that happened in what seemed like weeks. Just put some other players out there. Maybe putting Pettersson and Boeser out there and see what happens. Does it light a fire under them by giving them some responsibility? Put Garland and Podz out. Put Hughes out there. No longer is the crease area on a PK a rough and tumble cross check fest. It's not that physical. But they could sure use his stick skill down low to stop those cross crease passes. Would likely lose body position battles but no one else is winning those.

Not saying it's the solution but what's the worst that can happen? They get scored on 3 times in a game? It literally can't get worse.

That said at least those aforementioned media (except Farhan who wants to take the FA route and blame the players) are putting the focus on management.

I'm also annoyed at the media starting to pretend they are this great 5-on-5 team. They had circles skated around them for the first 12 minutes. They laid an egg the last 15 minutes of the third. This team looks OK at ES generally when they are trailing the game. And in the end haven't we all seen enough in the last 7+ seasons to realize that even if the PK was working or the PP was working they'd find a different way to lose? It's what a badly constructed roster does. Even last night in a "good game" the expected goals was essentially 3-3. Overall they don't really truly outplay a team. That has a lot to do with forgetting to show up for those first 12 minutes and the final 10.

I'm done with moral victories and feel good moments. The team needs to actually perform (it won't) or the changes need to made starting at the top (also won't happen). We're in purgatory folks.

For me, the PK is a real problem for Travis Green...if you look at the Carolina Hurricanes, since Rod Brind'Amour took over as coach in 2018 they have the best PK in the league, its because he knows how to coach, he was one of the premiere defensive players and PK'ers in the league when he played. He knows who is best suited to be on his PK units and he knows how to get the most out of them. Travis Green puts out players who have no business being on a PK unit and continually rides them despite the lack of any semblance of success...I'm not sure how anyone can look at Green and see a guy who really knows what he's doing.

 

[strattonius]

Why? You feel Green is anything close to a real coach? Seriously

No, dude. Read between the lines. He's saying the root of the problem is management and firing Green is only a temporary solution.

 

[tantalum]

The funniest part about this game to me is this story that they played a solid game when they didn't show up for the first 12 minutes, the last 15 minutes and took some selfish penalties (I really don't blame the players for that tbh). That's the bar. Losing in regulation and playing decent hockey for 35 minutes.