GDT: Avalanche vs Flyers | New Year's Eve | 7PM MT | Heroes & Antiheroes

[RockLobster]

As I said, we talked hockey for about an hour at the KSE dinner. I asked him about a lot including the Kovalchuk situation and the thought processing behind drafting Mack and not Seth Jones. He was very open and friendly, and he could tell that I was a hockey FAN, not a hockey reporter, so he wasn't apprehensive about answering my questions.

Doubt it if you want, but you can look back at Duchene's interviews when O'Reilly was holding out, and you can sense the animosity in his answers regarding ROR. The speculation is on whether or not they've reconciled, but we have to assume that they have being that they were linemates all of last year. The issue wasn't with their personalities, it was the mutual criticism of business decisions during contract negotiations. ROR thought Duchene took too little and Duchene thought ROR wanted too much.

It's all too convenient to come in here and say things like you said last night and have the Anti-O'Reilly sector glob on to it.

I mean it was awfully convenient of you to last night just say:

The tension between Duchene and O'Reilly, which seemed to be fabricated by Dater, was actually very real. Obviously they reconciled their differences over time once he was a part of the team again.

But not clarify like you just did--saying it was "mutual criticism of business decisions". Your original statement makes it sound like there was personal beef between them and that's exactly what people grabbed on to.

 

[RockLobster]

It's less far fetched than what you seem to choose to believe.

It lines up with and explains many things that have happened. And it's not really far fetched for someone who is connected to speak off the record at a casual setting. It's more far fetched to believe this doesn't happen.

Also, regarding "smoothing things over", it's more likely that coped by coexisting. But I really doubt it was truly smoothed over in the sense that it was forgotten.

This also might partly explain the observation that ROR has a lot of friends while Duchene is somewhat of a loner. And this is pyre conjecture (similar to assuming all these guys are friends) but I would be surprised if guys have,in some way (big or small) been poisoned against Duchene .

Ok bro

And on the subject of the bolded, this is one of the most out-there conspiracy theories I've seen on this.

Basically you don't like Ryan O'Reilly, so anyone who comes in here and claims to have inside information that is negative towards O'Reilly you have no problem believing and have no problem bending to fit your version of the "truth"...

And so what if O'Reilly and Duchene had tension at any time? They're professional athletes, they don't have to like each other, they just have to co-exist on the ice and that is something that Duchene and O'Reilly can do. This whole "I wouldn't be surprised if the guys have been poisoned against Duchene" is complete high school bullcrap.

 

[umdieecke*]

If you were paying attention to my posts in the past, you'd see that I'm not defending Roy. I don't think Duchene and MacKinnon have any chemistry at all. But at the same time, he's the highest paid guy on the team, and MacKinnon is the most talented. I fail to see how you can blame all their struggles on Roy. He's not the one flubbing passes, turning the puck over, and getting knocked off the puck easily.

MacKinnon and Duchene are going to have to learn to play when the game slows down at some point. That's what happens in the playoffs. They need to figure it out and they're talented enough to do it.

Roy hasn't told them to stop playing with speed. All he's told them is to recognize when their space is taken away, and adjust. Other teams have scouted the Avs and they haven't adjusted yet. He still wants to play with pace, but other teams are taking that away. Duchene and MacKinnon need to be smart enough to figure that out.

At what point did I say he told them verbally to not play with speed? At no point have I asserted that Rou verbally told them to not use speed. I'm not sure why you said that.

Btw-I wanted to circle back and say you make a fair point about them needing to play in less space is fair. But there's a lot going on with this and I don't think this one point comes close to reconciling or justifying what has taken place. Playing with speed and improving without space aren't mutually exclusive. I think it's fair to say they can improve in this area. But I think the wholesale changes have caused problems in terms if limiting how they can be productive. If anything, Roy should be trying to increase their scoring chances by improving the quality on defense and not slowing things down by not fixing the defense while bringing in older and slower players.

I also have to wonder if man to man defense leads to more transition opportunities.

 

[umdieecke*]

Ok bro

And on the subject of the bolded, this is one of the most out-there conspiracy theories I've seen on this.

Basically you don't like Ryan O'Reilly, so anyone who comes in here and claims to have inside information that is negative towards O'Reilly you have no problem believing and have no problem bending to fit your version of the "truth"...

And so what if O'Reilly and Duchene had tension at any time? They're professional athletes, they don't have to like each other, they just have to co-exist on the ice and that is something that Duchene and O'Reilly can do. This whole "I wouldn't be surprised if the guys have been poisoned against Duchene" is complete high school bullcrap.

It's not a conspiracy theory as much as it's not being naive.

Btw, I must have gotten under your skin if I prompted the "bro" reference. Either that or you're trying to antagonize me.

 

[bohlmeister]

Watching this game now.


Maybe Duchene went back to Gluten?

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Hey guys, while having a good debate is fun and all, don't take the condescending route. That only leads to more condescension and a bunch of needless fighting. Simmer down folks.

 

[Bubba Thudd]

Hey guys, while having a good debate is fun and all, don't take the condescending route. That only leads to more condescension and a bunch of needless fighting. Simmer down folks.

I'll add to that...

We need to be careful when we post what others have said about the players/team/coaches/whatever. Saying that McNab said this or that about a player is risky, particularly if there is no evidence to back it up. I'm not saying that I do or don't believe he said anything in a casual setting, but we need to be very careful about repeating it. If he were to read it, and disagree that he said that, HFBoards could catch heat. And we do not want that.

On another topic, I don't care who likes O'Reilly, who says he needs to stay or needs to go, or whatever. But we will not be attacking each other over personal opinions. Discuss the player, discuss games, plays, whatever, but do not make it personal.

 

[The Shermanator]

ROR and Dutch can hate each other all they want. They are professional athletes not teenage girls.

 

[bohlmeister]

For all the complaining on him being in the lineup, Holden was good last night.

ROR was as good as he has been this season. Guenin played well aside from his goal. Same with Rendo, played physical and was aggressive on the forcheck.

Dutch and Mac doesn't work. Needs to stahp.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

It's less far fetched than what you seem to choose to believe.

It lines up with and explains many things that have happened. And it's not really far fetched for someone who is connected to speak off the record at a casual setting. It's more far fetched to believe this doesn't happen.

Also, regarding "smoothing things over", it's more likely that coped by coexisting. But I really doubt it was truly smoothed over in the sense that it was forgotten.

This also might partly explain the observation that ROR has a lot of friends while Duchene is somewhat of a loner. And this is pyre conjecture (similar to assuming all these guys are friends) but I would be surprised if guys have,in some way (big or small) been poisoned against Duchene .

So you wouldn't be surprised if the guys have been poisoned against Duchene, but it should be RoR who should be questioned wether or not he is on the roster? If the players are against Duchene shouldn't it be Duchene who we question wether or not he should be on the team? Seems like Duchene is the problem in this hypothetical situation. Wouldn't the guys just be even more poisoned towards him if he was the reason RoR was no linger on the team?

Just to clarify, I think this whole discussion is ridiculous and not true at all. These guys are professional athletes, not high school girls as someone else said. They have got to be above this type of childish crap.

 

[Pokecheque]

For all the complaining on him being in the lineup, Holden was good last night.

ROR was as good as he has been this season. Guenin played well aside from his goal. Same with Rendo, played physical and was aggressive on the forcheck.

Dutch and Mac doesn't work. Needs to stahp.

Well, Roy's stahping that at least. Unfortunately he wants to keep Talbot in the top six even though it hasn't worked. At all. So Borna goes right back to the fourth line despite a solid performance last night.

Seriously, what happened to the Roy of last season? That guy was willing to try anything and didn't care if it was a young player or a vet. He was such a breath of fresh air in a culture of exceedingly stubborn and conservative coaches, and now is more stubborn and conservative than most of them.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

Well, Roy's stahping that at least. Unfortunately he wants to keep Talbot in the top six even though it hasn't worked. At all. So Borna goes right back to the fourth line despite a solid performance last night.

Seriously, what happened to the Roy of last season? That guy was willing to try anything and didn't care if it was a young player or a vet. He was such a breath of fresh air in a culture of exceedingly stubborn and conservative coaches, and now is more stubborn and conservative than most of them.

Talbot is going to be on the third line tomorrow. Won't be surprised if he gets replaced by Rendulic during the game (or Briere gets replaced).

As much as it sucks, we'll probably see this the rest of the year without McGinn and Winchester available. I just hope that if/when Briere is dealt, he gives young guys more of a chance.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Well, Roy's stahping that at least. Unfortunately he wants to keep Talbot in the top six even though it hasn't worked. At all. So Borna goes right back to the fourth line despite a solid performance last night.

Seriously, what happened to the Roy of last season? That guy was willing to try anything and didn't care if it was a young player or a vet. He was such a breath of fresh air in a culture of exceedingly stubborn and conservative coaches, and now is more stubborn and conservative than most of them.

Oh come on. Have we forgotten Roy wouldn't call anyone up last year? And Roy one of the most conservative and stubborn coaches in the league now, that's hyperbole. He's made a lot of changes, how many coaches would change their defensive system at the players request? And if a Rendulic keeps playing well he'll get more time like he did last night.

This whole making Roy the scapegoat is getting old. It's more than fair to criticize, discuss but it's way beyond that now. It's just lashing out at this point just to vent anger. Do you guys really want him fired? If not then I'd love to see some of it toned down. If there is new point then let's hear it but it's just the same thing repeated over and over again. Everyone is to blame and there is no magic wand genius fix. There doesn't need to be someone to blame every hour and for every mistake.

 

[landy92mack29]

so what are the supposed lines to start the game tomorrow?

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

The thing is, it's a young team. Not just from a players standpoint, but also a management and coaching standpoint. These guys will be growing and learning together, and while there are growing pains, I've got hope that things will turn out.

I got the feeling throughout the season so far that these guys got a little too full of themselves from last year. I think everyone thought it would come just as easily as it did last year and when it didn't they just mentally collapsed. Hopefully they are learning a thing or two about what it takes to consistently be a threat in this league. We need Duchene and MacKinnon to be mentally stronger, when things aren't going in for them they just force plays more and more, causing a lot of turn overs against.

I'm hoping that Roy realizes that Rendulic should be playing with some playmakers. Don't use him as a warm body, kid has talent, let that talent develop by playing him in the right situations. He should be floating around on the left half boards during the PP, make use of that shot of his as much as you can.

 

[bohlmeister]

Oh come on. Have we forgotten Roy wouldn't call anyone up last year? And Roy one of the most conservative and stubborn coaches in the league now, that's hyperbole. He's made a lot of changes, how many coaches would change their defensive system at the players request? And if a Rendulic keeps playing well he'll get more time like he did last night.

This whole making Roy the scapegoat is getting old. It's more than fair to criticize, discuss but it's way beyond that now. It's just lashing out at this point just to vent anger. Do you guys really want him fired? If not then I'd love to see some of it toned down. If there is new point then let's hear it but it's just the same thing repeated over and over again. Everyone is to blame and there is no magic wand genius fix. There doesn't need to be someone to blame every hour and for every mistake.

The thing is, it's a young team. Not just from a players standpoint, but also a management and coaching standpoint. These guys will be growing and learning together, and while there are growing pains, I've got hope that things will turn out.

I got the feeling throughout the season so far that these guys got a little too full of themselves from last year. I think everyone thought it would come just as easily as it did last year and when it didn't they just mentally collapsed. Hopefully they are learning a thing or two about what it takes to consistently be a threat in this league. We need Duchene and MacKinnon to be mentally stronger, when things aren't going in for them they just force plays more and more, causing a lot of turn overs against.

I'm hoping that Roy realizes that Rendulic should be playing with some playmakers. Don't use him as a warm body, kid has talent, let that talent develop by playing him in the right situations. He should be floating around on the left half boards during the PP, make use of that shot of his as much as you can.

Good posts.

Anyone else get the feeling that Roy is letting these guys twist in the wind a little bit? I get the feeling that he is stepping back a little bit and making these guys get there on their own.

 

[Pokecheque]

Oh come on. Have we forgotten Roy wouldn't call anyone up last year? And Roy one of the most conservative and stubborn coaches in the league now, that's hyperbole. He's made a lot of changes, how many coaches would change their defensive system at the players request? And if a Rendulic keeps playing well he'll get more time like he did last night.

This whole making Roy the scapegoat is getting old. It's more than fair to criticize, discuss but it's way beyond that now. It's just lashing out at this point just to vent anger. Do you guys really want him fired? If not then I'd love to see some of it toned down. If there is new point then let's hear it but it's just the same thing repeated over and over again. Everyone is to blame and there is no magic wand genius fix. There doesn't need to be someone to blame every hour and for every mistake.

Admittedly it's hyperbole, but speaking of, I am not necessarily "scapegoating" him nor have I said anywhere that I want him fired or even implied as much. It's just that my frustration with him is really boiling over. I think the criticisms being leveled at him are valid. I have said in the past during this season that he's at least making some good moves, like realizing his M2M system just wasn't working and made strides to fix that.

As for not calling anyone up, was there really much of a clamor for him to do so? The team was amazingly healthy for most of the season IIRC, and hey, they were winning. Plus, the team didn't have an Everberg or Rendulic, and Siemens struggled with that knee injury for most of the season. Hishon got his callup for the postseason to replace Mitchell and did reasonably well.

No one is saying there's a magic wand fix. I think they have a shot at making the playoffs still, but it's slim at best. I just want a respectable run to the finish, I want to see the outright crappy players on the squad removed, and let's just see what some of these young talents have to offer. I realize that's not entirely realistic, but I feel like Roy makes a good move and then inexplicably counters it with a bad one.

I'm not expecting big things--in fact I think most of us knew there'd be regression of some sort. I mean, geez, they won a division that featured St. Louis and Chicago for cryin' out loud. NEXT season, yeah, I sure hope the team is in contender mode. But this season I just don't want the team in McDavid/Eichel territory.

 

[tigervixxxen]

I don't think they will have a lottery embarrassing finish. This is a .500 team right now, that's about where I expect them to finish.

I agree with the point that at this juncture they just pretty much need to figure it out on their own. There isn't anything that Roy can do to make a large difference.

And yeah they probably thought with all their success last year that they wanted to keep the team together as much as possible when that probably wasn't the best idea. Everyone makes mistakes, it's what you learn from them. We'll see what they learn. As I've said for me to evaluate this era is going to take more time and perspective.

 

[SB]

Anyone else get the feeling that Roy is letting these guys twist in the wind a little bit?

Yes, absolutely.

 

[Freudian]

Kids wish for all kinds of things for Christmas. I can guarantee not a single one wished for a Ford Focus. If they did, they should be institutionalized.