You're right. Roy should remove Duchene and MacKinnon's heads from their ***** himself.
GDT: Avalanche vs Flyers | New Year's Eve | 7PM MT | Heroes & Antiheroes
- Thread starter UncleRisto
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You're right. It has nothing to do with Roy and the front office tampering with team chemistry by FUBARing the offseason. This is happening because MacKinnon and Duchene are determined to underperform. I'm sure that's why they put in so much work in the offseason.
So there's no responsibility on the players? Duchene is on pace for 46 points, and barely more for Mackinnon. You're going to blame all that on management? Duchene is being paid a lot of money and providing very little.
How many of Duchenes points do you think Roy feels come from unassisted goals? And again, do you think they're trying to underperform?
It's also interesting that the top 2 scorers average 36 years old meanwhile the two players with real speed are well below where they should be in scoring. Coincidence?
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Foppa2118
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- Oct 3, 2003
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Finished watching this one. Even before the OT winner I was gonna come here and say this was easily O'Reilly's best game of the year. He's been better recently, but IMO this was the first time he played like he did last year. Great to see the double fist pump after the goal too.
On a side note, good on the referee for instantly blowing the play dead when he saw Briere's skate go next to MDZ's neck. He didn't know if he hit him or not, but taking the extra seconds to see could have been the difference between life and death. Pretty scary looking.
On a side note, good on the referee for instantly blowing the play dead when he saw Briere's skate go next to MDZ's neck. He didn't know if he hit him or not, but taking the extra seconds to see could have been the difference between life and death. Pretty scary looking.
At this point, I have no idea what you're talking about. Of course I don't think they're trying to underperform. But they are, they look awful, and I hope you're not trying to blame that all on coaching and management.
The young players, particularly Duchene and MacKinnon, need to learn how to play well when there isn't as much space. If they don't do that, this team won't go anywhere. Teams have scoured the Avs and they're taking away their space. Those two have to adjust.
Duchene has two shots in the last two games, after their coach has been preaching to stop the fancy play and put more pucks on net. He needs to figure it out
Freudian
Clearly deranged
- Jul 3, 2003
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When MacKinnon and Duchene make so many unforced errors, it's hard to blame the system/coach/tough opposition. They're just not playing well with the puck and until they do, their speed is useless.
Of course playing them together when they both suffer from the same problem doesn't help. That's coaching. But not being able to pass the puck isn't coaching.
Of course playing them together when they both suffer from the same problem doesn't help. That's coaching. But not being able to pass the puck isn't coaching.
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Btw, now that it's been revealed how contentious it's been between Duchene and OReilly, having OReilly on the roster is something that also must be questioned.
Seriously, this offseason was a complete hatchet job. And the front office is expecting the teams two best forwards to both look past their gaffes and make it work.
Btw, now that it's been revealed how contentious it's been between Duchene and OReilly, having OReilly on the roster is something that also must be questioned.
Seriously, this offseason was a complete hatchet job. And the front office is expecting the teams two best forwards to both look past their gaffes and make it work.
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RockLobster
King in the North
Yeah, let's take that second hand information as gospel.
If you're going to believe everything that was posted last night, then why gloss over the fact that the poster said that they've "smoothed over" their differences?
Roy wanted the team to not rely on creating space with speed. So he brought in players to try to ensure that. This is why the two old guys are leading the team in scoring. Roy made a conscious decision to make a stylistic change and he's gone so far to shoehorn this slower stationary style into the offense that they no longer to have the complimentary personnel to create in transition.
Oh but let's just ignore this and mindlessly say the two most talented players on the team suck even though they're also the two most prepared and dedicated players also.
Last year Duchene had OReilly playing for money as a line mate. This year that line mate is in year 1 of 2 and is pouting over money. And with Duchenes and RORs past bad blood, they should have known something line this might happen. But the front office was too obsessed with being right in arbitration, that they weren't smart enough to see all the ways they could lose by "winning". So instead of upgrading Duchenes line from last year, Duchened line has been diminished.
Same with MacKinnon, except they let Stastny walk--and for nothing.
But let's just blindly defend Roy and blame the players. I mean, they are the ones making roster decisions that affect team chemistry, right?
Yeah, let's take that second hand information as gospel.
If you're going to believe everything that was posted last night, then why gloss over the fact that the poster said that they've "smoothed over" their differences?
Second hand information? As opposed to the inferences being made by people based on what they want to believe? Sorry this guy is more connected than the people who have shared the widely held belief.
Bubba Thudd
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RockLobster
King in the North
"More Connected"? Based on what? That he says he talked with McNab at some charity function and that he (McNab) just decided to unload all of this information about O'Reilly to a stranger he just met?
Yeah, that doesn't sound far fetched...
Avs44
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- May 16, 2011
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RockLobster
King in the North
People are on here all the time talking about how poor the outlet passes are by are defensemen. Then you subtract two forwards last year who played well in the defensive zone and in transition (ie, Stastny and OReilly) and you can see how MacKinnon and Duchene have fewer chances to play in transition. Ok, they're not playing well with the puck on their stick. But why? You don't think it goes back to having fewer chances to create they're feeling more pressure to the point that they're making poor decisions when they do have the puck?
There are just too many data points clustered together and in groups of two to ignore are lazily attribute as "they suck" when they're actually two of the most talented players in the NHL. I mean, it's not like Duchene has around 50 points and MacKinnon has around 20--and both utilize speed. They're both around 20 and they're similar players. And they're both being out scored by 2 old guys who also have roughly equal points. And it's also not like the have 2014 Stastny or ROR. Both those guys are gone. Sorry but there are too many items to ignore or dismiss as coincidence. And the fact that both EJ and Barrie combined with Tsnguay and Iginla leading in points, tells you the offense they're getting is almost exclusively from set plays when the defenseman are typically in the offensive zone.
Fun game to be at last night, Rendulic looked awesome, and it was so cool to see how happy he was after he scored. ROR had an incredible game all around, I really don't want him traded. Hejda got beat bad on that Giroux goal but made up for it with those two epic shot blocks in OT, and had a solid game otherwise. Duchene and MacK don't work together, and they never have, split them up. Cliche playing up there was hilarious though. That last play by Barrie and ROR was insane.
If you were paying attention to my posts in the past, you'd see that I'm not defending Roy. I don't think Duchene and MacKinnon have any chemistry at all. But at the same time, he's the highest paid guy on the team, and MacKinnon is the most talented. I fail to see how you can blame all their struggles on Roy. He's not the one flubbing passes, turning the puck over, and getting knocked off the puck easily.
MacKinnon and Duchene are going to have to learn to play when the game slows down at some point. That's what happens in the playoffs. They need to figure it out and they're talented enough to do it.
Roy hasn't told them to stop playing with speed. All he's told them is to recognize when their space is taken away, and adjust. Other teams have scouted the Avs and they haven't adjusted yet. He still wants to play with pace, but other teams are taking that away. Duchene and MacKinnon need to be smart enough to figure that out.
They changed mid game to:
Landy - ROR - Rendulic
Briere - Duchene - MacKinnon
Tanguay - mitchell - Iginla
But towards the end, ROR and Landy were on various lines double shifting and Cliche ended up with Duchene and MacKinnon.
jvcjdudu jcycyxjene
Registered User
As I said, we talked hockey for about an hour at the KSE dinner. I asked him about a lot including the Kovalchuk situation and the thought processing behind drafting Mack and not Seth Jones. He was very open and friendly, and he could tell that I was a hockey FAN, not a hockey reporter, so he wasn't apprehensive about answering my questions.
Doubt it if you want, but you can look back at Duchene's interviews when O'Reilly was holding out, and you can sense the animosity in his answers regarding ROR. The speculation is on whether or not they've reconciled, but we have to assume that they have being that they were linemates all of last year. The issue wasn't with their personalities, it was the mutual criticism of business decisions during contract negotiations. ROR thought Duchene took too little and Duchene thought ROR wanted too much.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lT46bnp3mCI
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a mangy Meowth
Ross Colton Fan
I'm tired of people blaming Roy/whatever for, at worst, controversial moves.
Duchene and MacKinnon are the problem. Landeskog and O'Reilly too. Anyone saying otherwise is in denial. Any number of things being said about outside factors affecting these players doesn't make me feel any better about their play. If our star players can't work around a few minor coaching blunders and some middle of the road players as linemates, then why are they star players at all? We used to trumpet the fact that Duchene had trouble melding with any winger and he just put up tons of points regardless of his linemates for a number of seasons.
I really hope something changes soon. Can our young players even battle through adversity at all?
Duchene and MacKinnon are the problem. Landeskog and O'Reilly too. Anyone saying otherwise is in denial. Any number of things being said about outside factors affecting these players doesn't make me feel any better about their play. If our star players can't work around a few minor coaching blunders and some middle of the road players as linemates, then why are they star players at all? We used to trumpet the fact that Duchene had trouble melding with any winger and he just put up tons of points regardless of his linemates for a number of seasons.
I really hope something changes soon. Can our young players even battle through adversity at all?
They are working around massive coaching blunders in an impressive way. A player like Iginla is producing at his best pace since 10/11 despite being put in a role that doesn't suit him at all.
Everyone of our players that are supposed to produce has barely been given the chance and at all and they still do at a respectable pace. Our top players just have to take so much god damn defensive minutes because our bottom six are the worst in the league.
And also remember that he hasn't given a single line or even duo a chance to play together for a long enough stretch to build some chemistry. Tomorrow we go again. MacKinnon with Mitchell and Talbot, Landeskog with Duchene and Briere. Yeah, that will last long...
Roy calling out production and saying he needs more production from his top players just calls himself out as an idiot.
It's less far fetched than what you seem to choose to believe.
It lines up with and explains many things that have happened. And it's not really far fetched for someone who is connected to speak off the record at a casual setting. It's more far fetched to believe this doesn't happen.
Also, regarding "smoothing things over", it's more likely that coped by coexisting. But I really doubt it was truly smoothed over in the sense that it was forgotten.
This also might partly explain the observation that ROR has a lot of friends while Duchene is somewhat of a loner. And this is pyre conjecture (similar to assuming all these guys are friends) but I would be surprised if guys have,in some way (big or small) been poisoned against Duchene .
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