GDT: Avalanche vs Devils 5:30PM MNT 2/6/24 (Emergency GDT) God help us find a 2C

[Chileiceman]

Did Predators fans try to warn us about Johansen?

 

[The Moops]

Did Predators fans try to warn us about Johansen?

There is a reason they are paying him to not play for them anymore

 

[Pokecheque]

I was busy reading bedtime stories to my toddler in the third, listened on the radio so I didn't actually see the GLG until just now. Lot of people getting on Makar's case but I think that one is mostly on Byram letting Marino just walk right around him with a weak reach of the stick as "coverage," and then on Annunen for not making the save. Sorry, but if you're a legit NHL goalie...you gotta have that one. The last two goals he gave up were bad ones, despite the defensive breakdowns that took place in front of him.

Just a really bad showing overall by the defense. Bad game from Makar, egregiously bad games from Manson and Byram.

Byram's continued regression is a growing concern. I don't recognize this player--he's not the same scrappy punk we saw earlier in his career. Just looked completely lost out there last night.

 

[the_fan]

There is a reason they are paying him to not play for them anymore

I mean they’re doing the same to Duchene and he’s having a good season in Dallas

 

[John Mandalorian]

I can't speak for everyone but for me it's like this :

Drouin-Mack-Rantanen
Leks- -Nuke
Wood-Colton-LOC
Cogliano-Olofsson-Parise

Toews, LD 4.1m - Makar, RD 9m
Girard, LD 5m - Manson, RD 4.5m
Byram, LD3.85m - JMFJ, LD/RD .775k

Georgiev, G
Annunen, G

*(Red = need an upgrade)

We've had an OBVIOUS surplus at LD for quite a while now and sure you drafted Byram #4 overall so you don't want to just give him away but at the same time -> pick a f***ing guy to keep (either G or Bo) and trade the other one in a package for that giant gaping hole at #2C already.

Whether it's Jenner, Nelson or someone else of at least that quality - he's going to have to get it done... even if it's an overpayment. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt until the TDL but if it's Henrique or some other mediocre piece that clearly doesn't give the Avs the best chance to win again this season all so he can keep this year and future years late round draft choices, then I will go apeshit on CMac and call for him to be fired every single day until it happens.

 

[AslanRH]

We've had an OBVIOUS surplus at LD for quite a while now and sure you drafted Byram #4 overall so you don't want to just give him away but at the same time -> pick a f***ing guy to keep (either G or Bo) and trade the other one in a package for that giant gaping hole at #2C already.

Whether it's Jenner, Nelson or someone else of at least that quality - he's going to have to get it done... even if it's an overpayment. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt until the TDL but if it's Henrique or some other mediocre piece that clearly doesn't give the Avs the best chance to win again this season all so he can keep this year and future years late round draft choices, then I will go apeshit on CMac and call for him to be fired every single day until it happens.

And do we know the Avs refused to move a young concussion/injury magnet LD or undersized transition LD in exchange for a solution at 2C?
I may have missed it, but don't recall anything solid that says or even strongly suggests that they did.

I could see in hindsight where a potential for potential deal may have been made with Byram, but an established 2C that has been moved since the cup run? Who were they landing? PLD, Horvat, Eichel, Kotka?

What about UFAs? CMac/Sakic couldn't land ... Trocheck, Domi, ROR?

Can't imagine the rage on here if the Avs overpaid for a guy like PLD or Trocheck and it dosen't bring any better results than what they have had the last 2 years.

 

[The Abusement Park]

It doesn't take 2+ years, he's clearly not trying very hard.

I mean the C’s that have moved since last season:

Dach: plenty of questions if he is a C or not, potentially a miss but would’ve been a high cost for not a sure thing


Monahan to MTL: Obviously not an option

Horvat: A miss there for sure, but runs into the same issue as Lindholm in do you have the cap space to re sign him


ROR: Looked washed last season up until the playoffs

Hayes: Potential RyJo type situation

Monahan again: Obviously a no

Lindholm: potential miss but also potential difficulties keeping him past this season.

I mean of the potential 2C’s moved Horvat and Lindholm are the obvious misses but clearly come with the potential of getting not the same issue the following season. Dude clearly needs to fill that hole but he needs to pry someone with some term available. Of the guys moved recently I don’t think we’ve fully missed out yet.

 

[S E P H]

Please replace Kiviranta with LOC.

Totally forgot, I actually would keep the Colton line together and have LOC on that 3rd line RW and drop Parise to the 4th line.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

Someone should show him clips of himself playing "defense".

 

[The Moops]

I mean they’re doing the same to Duchene and he’s having a good season in Dallas

Yeah we picked the wrong Nashville reject. Duchene >>> RyJo

 

[Bender]

And do we know the Avs refused to move a young concussion/injury magnet LD or undersized transition LD in exchange for a solution at 2C?
I may have missed it, but don't recall anything solid that says or even strongly suggests that they did.

I could see in hindsight where a potential for potential deal may have been made with Byram, but an established 2C that has been moved since the cup run? Who were they landing? PLD, Horvat, Eichel, Kotka?

What about UFAs? CMac/Sakic couldn't land ... Trocheck, Domi, ROR?

Can't imagine the rage on here if the Avs overpaid for a guy like PLD or Trocheck and it dosen't bring any better results than what they have had the last 2 years.

So I will say it again, even if it requires an OVERPAYMENT, they have to get it done this season.

A year ago, if anyone had suggested a Byram for Nelson trade - people would have scoffed saying they wouldn't want to trade a kid in his early 20s for a guy in his early 30s.

You can suggest that neither Byram or Girard have have great value if you want but I personally believe that Sammy G has played really well since his return and is very much a Top-4 d-man. Byram has shown the ability to play really well, certainly in a Top-4 but no so much this season. Doesn't mean their value is zero. Doesn't mean other teams wouldn't be interested - especially if you're packaging up some conditional picks in there to make sure it gets done.

 

[John Mandalorian]

And do we know the Avs refused to move a young concussion/injury magnet LD or undersized transition LD in exchange for a solution at 2C?
I may have missed it, but don't recall anything solid that says or even strongly suggests that they did.

I could see in hindsight where a potential for potential deal may have been made with Byram, but an established 2C that has been moved since the cup run? Who were they landing? PLD, Horvat, Eichel, Kotka?

What about UFAs? CMac/Sakic couldn't land ... Trocheck, Domi, ROR?

Can't imagine the rage on here if the Avs overpaid for a guy like PLD or Trocheck and it dosen't bring any better results than what they have had the last 2 years.

Gauthier one for one. Maybe not a 2C but hes at least been discussed.

 

[Pokecheque]

Yeah I'm not accepting excuses at this point. If MacFarland doesn't address this team's most glaring need(s) by the deadline, then he's just a bad GM. Get. It. Done.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

So far there have been 2 trades: VAN-CAL and WIN-MON. So what I have learned today is that there are 28 GMs that don't care because they haven't made deal yet. Some of those 28 GMs are sellers and some are buyers. The buyers don't care enough to have made a deal yet and the sellers don't care enough to have made a deal yet as well. Even CAL and MON haven't cared enough to sell their other assets they should sell. I also learned that teams GMs like CBJ, Isles and ANA don't care enough to sell Jenner, Nelson or Zegras even though they most likely want to keep those guys. Oh I forgot to add OTT and Pinto.

I am so glad some of you are not the Avs' GM. You guys think that just because you have a hole in your lineup you only need to WANT to fill it to make it happened. Who cares what the other GMs think? I WANT that player so you WILL SELL me that player. Right?

 

[John Mandalorian]

So far there have been 2 trades: VAN-CAL and WIN-MON. So what I have learned today is that there are 28 GMs that don't care because they haven't made deal yet. Some of those 28 GMs are sellers and some are buyers. The buyers don't care enough to have made a deal yet and the sellers don't care enough to have made a deal yet as well. Even CAL and MON haven't cared enough to sell their other assets they should sell. I also learned that teams GMs like CBJ, Isles and ANA don't care enough to sell Jenner, Nelson or Zegras even though they most likely want to keep those guys. Oh I forgot to add OTT and Pinto.

I am so glad some of you are not the Avs' GM. You guys think that just because you have a hole in your lineup you only need to WANT to fill it to make it happened. Who cares what the other GMs think? I WANT that player so you WILL SELL me that player. Right?

They should go after a softer target now so someone isnt leveraging them later on something better.

 

[chet1926]

So far there have been 2 trades: VAN-CAL and WIN-MON. So what I have learned today is that there are 28 GMs that don't care because they haven't made deal yet. Some of those 28 GMs are sellers and some are buyers. The buyers don't care enough to have made a deal yet and the sellers don't care enough to have made a deal yet as well. Even CAL and MON haven't cared enough to sell their other assets they should sell. I also learned that teams GMs like CBJ, Isles and ANA don't care enough to sell Jenner, Nelson or Zegras even though they most likely want to keep those guys. Oh I forgot to add OTT and Pinto.

I am so glad some of you are not the Avs' GM. You guys think that just because you have a hole in your lineup you only need to WANT to fill it to make it happened. Who cares what the other GMs think? I WANT that player so you WILL SELL me that player. Right?

The other 28 GMs haven't sat on a glaring problem for 2+ years during their contention window. CMac doesn't give a shit, if he did something would have been done by now.

If CMac truly cares about winning or giving his team the best shot he sure has hell hasn't shown it.

 

[AslanRH]

So I will say it again, even if it requires an OVERPAYMENT, they have to get it done this season.

A year ago, if anyone had suggested a Byram for Nelson trade - people would have scoffed saying they wouldn't want to trade a kid in his early 20s for a guy in his early 30s.

You can suggest that neither Byram or Girard have have great value if you want but I personally believe that Sammy G has played really well since his return and is very much a Top-4 d-man. Byram has shown the ability to play really well, certainly in a Top-4 but no so much this season. Doesn't mean their value is zero. Doesn't mean other teams wouldn't be interested - especially if you're packaging up some conditional picks in there to make sure it gets done.

I'm not saying they don't have value. We can make a ton of trades on paper with those players.
I'm just asking if there is any evidence the Avs FO turned down/refused or were offered one of these many possibilities that are on paper.

Not worth arguing anymore, but to think KSE and especially Sakic would tolerate CMac "just not trying" (as many propose here) is just illogical to me. It is either that he isn't getting the chance or hasn't been given the permission to "overpay" to fix the issue.

 

[Muffin]

Byram for Nelson is crazy talk. Only way I give up Byram is for someone like Zegras or Mittelstadt.

 

[nammerus]

Did Predators fans try to warn us about Johansen?

Most said he was a borderline 3rd liner...mostly 4th liner. But most CMac-stans preferred to keep their blinders on and ignored the warnings.

 

[Pokecheque]

Byram for Nelson is crazy talk. Only way I give up Byram is for someone like Zegras or Mittelstadt.

I'd do that deal. I'd prefer Zegras of course but I don't think the Sabres or Ducks would even want Byram. I could see Lamoriello wanting him, but I also don't see that going down as a one-for-one deal either. If it was, no hesitation on my part, assuming the cap could somehow be worked out.

I know some on here still see a superstar in Byram, I just don't see that player anymore. Best to trade him NOW to garner the best value.

 

[Bender]

I'm not saying they don't have value. We can make a ton of trades on paper with those players.
I'm just asking if there is any evidence the Avs FO turned down/refused or were offered one of these many possibilities that are on paper.

Not worth arguing anymore, but to think KSE and especially Sakic would tolerate CMac "just not trying" (as many propose here) is just illogical to me. It is either that he isn't getting the chance or hasn't been given the permission to "overpay" to fix the issue.

Ok... I agree with you that he's definitely trying.

My point is that if he's not doing ALL he can because he specifically wants to hang on to a late 2025 1st round pick... that's not the right way to go because team is right there.

In my view, if the NYI are listening on a guy like Brock Nelson - that's the guy you go get - even if people are like "woah...that's a lot to give up for 1.5 years of Brock Nelson" because after that guy - it dries up pretty quick and if you're basically sitting at the TDL wondering if you should trade a 2nd and a 3rd for Adam Henrique well then, you probably did it wrong.

 

[AslanRH]

Ok... I agree with you that he's definitely trying.

My point is that if he's not doing ALL he can because he specifically wants to hang on to a late 2025 1st round pick... that's not the right way to go because team is right there.

In my view, if the NYI are listening on a guy like Brock Nelson - that's the guy you go get - even if people are like "woah...that's a lot to give up for 1.5 years of Brock Nelson" because after that guy - it dries up pretty quick and if you're basically sitting at the TDL wondering if you should trade a 2nd and a 3rd for Adam Henrique well then, you probably did it wrong.

Agreed, but if that is the case, I think Sakic would have to be on board with holding those futures.

CMac's job likely depends more on acquiring a solution for the next few seasons than it does on how that future pick turns out, so unlikely he's hoarding by only his choosing.

 

[SirLoinOfCloth]

he specifically wants to hang on to a late 2025 1st round pick

I would say about this, that we can't have it both ways. We can't imply that its a whatever pick because it is late first round so there's no point hanging on to it, and at the same time expect a team to want it as much as an any other 1st round pick.

We have the trade assets we have, if trades aren't happening then it could be that our prospective trade partners would prefer better picks than we can offer. So then our options are to sweeten the deal with more picks, roster players, or prospects.

I just think people are being naive thinking that CMac can call up any GM, demand a player he wants, and it will be done like that. We have to be able to offer them something they want in return and maybe our (likely) late-round picks aren't cutting it.

 

[AslanRH]

Most said he was a borderline 3rd liner...mostly 4th liner. But most CMac-stans preferred to keep their blinders on and ignored the warnings.

did they? I don't remember anyone being excited about that trade.
A few were trying to see what might possibly make it make sense once the deal was done, but don't think many thought it was a great move.

 

[Pokecheque]

There are CMac Stans? Do they have a shirt? Because if so, I want one.