AV

[mize370]

Beniot Groulx

 

[tucson83]

It seems as though most of the Flyers fans on this forum do not like Alain Vigneault and his staff for the job they've done during their two difficult seasons dealing with troubles like Covid-19, Nolan Patrick's absence for the entire 2020 season, and Oskar Lindblom's cancer situation, then the vacancy of a qualified experienced defenseman to mentor the younger players on the team when Niskanen retired.
I would really like to know who everyone wants to replace coach Vigneault?

if cooper and sullian get canned in a few years that's who i would replace him with, im not settling for a bottom tier coach.

 

[Starat327]

To be fair, it's a pretty reasonable question.

Nobody on this board has gone into any specifics about what exactly AV has done wrong or what the the problems are with this team.

It's exclusively "We didn't win a cup this year so we need to fire the coach!!! And if the next one doesn't win a cup in his first year, fire him too!!!".

Yeah, you're right. I was just trolling.

Obviously.

 

[Striiker]

Yeah, you're right. I was just trolling.

Obviously.

I want you to apologize to toucan.

 

[Starat327]

I want you to apologize to toucan.

 

[renberg]

Briere to coach with Timonen

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Got a thought. I know COVID makes it tough to immediately replace a coaching staff with a new one, so I have a feeling that even before the season is done, if Chuck is worth anything, Chuck has someone lined up already to take over for AV and crew for when the season ends.

 

[FlyerNutter]

He did nothing at the last deadline. He did nothing this off season, and did nothing at this trade deadline to truly help his team.

No coaching changes, no meaningful additions.

Instead Fletcher chose to give a concrete declaration of immunity to the men behind the bench.

Hextall was crucified for doing nothing and being content at being the king of depth additions, with blind loyalty to his coach.

What’s different here. Vigneault is a shitstain, warranted or not quality organizations do not allow their teams to be embarrassed time after time and make no changes.

 

[Adam Warlock]

He did nothing at the last deadline. He did nothing this off season, and did nothing at this trade deadline to truly help his team.

No coaching changes, no meaningful additions.

Instead Fletcher chose to give a concrete declaration of immunity to the men behind the bench.

Hextall was crucified for doing nothing and being content at being the king of depth additions, with blind loyalty to his coach.

What’s different here. Vigneault is a shitstain, warranted or not quality organizations do not allow their teams to be embarrassed time after time and make no changes.

The difference is it is only AVs second season...and in his first season he got the team further than they have been in a decade. Heat turned up on Hextall because he stuck with hak for years despite the team never getting better.

So in the eyes of management, AV had one good season and one awful one, and both were under a cloud of an unprecidented global pandemic.

Not saying AV should be immune to criticism, but those of you expecting him to be fired already are going to be disappointed. A coach like AV is going to get a longer leash.

That being said, this year should shorten that leash. If the team struggles early next year, then I think AV will be fired.

 

[FlyerNutter]

The difference is it is only AVs second season...and in his first season he got the team further than they have been in a decade. Heat turned up on Hextall because he stuck with hak for years despite the team never getting better.

So in the eyes of management, AV had one good season and one awful one, and both were under a cloud of an unprecidented global pandemic.

Not saying AV should be immune to criticism, but those of you expecting him to be fired already are going to be disappointed. A coach like AV is going to get a longer leash.

That being said, this year should shorten that leash. If the team struggles early next year, then I think AV will be fired.

A longer leash? Montreal and Calgary moved on from their HC’s this season. Clubs with apparently higher standards.

Boston moved on from Julien years ago. Washington moves on from how many coaches? Vegas let’s go of Gallant in what’s seen as a tremendous introduction of their organization to the league. Toronto moves on from Babcock, who was initially painted as a hockey wizard.

No. There is an organization that has continuously now since 2015 shown to stick by failed HC’s.

This is an ownership thing. If any of these beats had a pair of balls they could actually make a real name for themselves. The article is begging to be written.

 

[renberg]

The main reason for the sad sack season is either the coach or the players. All teams have had Covid and injuries. Those excuses are off of the table. Fletcher has a mess here. On one hand he removes AV and is out $15M. The other side of the ledger is then the players, mainly JVR, Voracek and Giroux who are the “core” of the team. That’s $24M or so. If Fletcher tries to move them out, it’s going to cost more than money since he’s put the onus of the team’s failures on them by keeping AV. He will have destroyed their trade value and will get less than fair value in return. It’s a tough call for Fletcher but money wise, player wise and for his own reputation, the sensible call is to fire AV and his staff. Unless that is done, his ticket sales will collapse along with the poor product that he’s putting on the ice.

 

[Adam Warlock]

The main reason for the sad sack season is either the coach or the players. All teams have had Covid and injuries. Those excuses are off of the table. Fletcher has a mess here. On one hand he removes AV and is out $15M. The other side of the ledger is then the players, mainly JVR, Voracek and Giroux who are the “core” of the team. That’s $24M or so. If Fletcher tries to move them out, it’s going to cost more than money since he’s put the onus of the team’s failures on them by keeping AV. He will have destroyed their trade value and will get less than fair value in return. It’s a tough call for Fletcher but money wise, player wise and for his own reputation, the sensible call is to fire AV and his staff. Unless that is done, his ticket sales will collapse along with the poor product that he’s putting on the ice.

Not every team was shutdown for two weeks bc of covid. The ones who were, many faced similar struggles. The Flyers are also in by far the toughest division. Both absolutely factored in here. There are definitely other reasons, and yes coaching is one of them, but you cant say the pandemic didnt factor in to where the team is.

If it werent for covid, its possible the Flyers would have gone even deeper in the playoffs last year and would be doing much better this season.

At the end of the day, this disaster of a season revealed some gaping holes. Hart is not a number 1 goalie and may not even be an nhl goalie. Provy cant be counted on as a number 1 D. Hayes is a 3c at best. Myers may not be a top 4 D.

Scott is going to give Fletcher this offseason to fix those holes. Fletcher is going to give AV next season to make it work. If the team fails, both will be gone.

 

[Starat327]

Holy overexaggeration batman

 

[Vikke]

AV says again and again that this is a playoff team, it's playoffs or bust, blah blah blah. Pretty much everyone agreed prior to the season, the Flyers should make the playoffs. Yet they'll fall incredibly short in an embarrassing fashion. That, to me, screams COACHING ISSUES.
If everyone agrees the roster is playoff bound and they don't even get close, who's fault is that primarily?

 

[Rebels57]

Not every team was shutdown for two weeks bc of covid. The ones who were, many faced similar struggles. The Flyers are also in by far the toughest division. Both absolutely factored in here. There are definitely other reasons, and yes coaching is one of them, but you cant say the pandemic didnt factor in to where the team is.

If it werent for covid, its possible the Flyers would have gone even deeper in the playoffs last year and would be doing much better this season.

At the end of the day, this disaster of a season revealed some gaping holes. Hart is not a number 1 goalie and may not even be an nhl goalie. Provy cant be counted on as a number 1 D. Hayes is a 3c at best. Myers may not be a top 4 D.

Scott is going to give Fletcher this offseason to fix those holes. Fletcher is going to give AV next season to make it work. If the team fails, both will be gone.

Defends AV in one breath and then says this with another.

Absolutely brutal.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

AV says again and again that this is a playoff team, it's playoffs or bust, blah blah blah. Pretty much everyone agreed prior to the season, the Flyers should make the playoffs. Yet they'll fall incredibly short in an embarrassing fashion. That, to me, screams COACHING ISSUES.
If everyone agrees the roster is playoff bound and they don't even get close, who's fault is that primarily?

Remember, AV is someone who will never blame himself for mistakes. Either gives some generic non-answer for bullshit, gives up some sort of excuse for their troubles when other teams have been fine having the same issue (or righted the ship) or he picks out specific players to be critical about. He is very far up his own ass, thinking he's never wrong.

Defends AV in one breath and then says this with another.

Absolutely brutal.

Gotta love the "don't blame the coaching staff, blame all the players who are apparently bad now and won't be better or have known to be better," rhetoric...

 

[renberg]

Not every team was shutdown for two weeks bc of covid. The ones who were, many faced similar struggles. The Flyers are also in by far the toughest division. Both absolutely factored in here. There are definitely other reasons, and yes coaching is one of them, but you cant say the pandemic didnt factor in to where the team is.

If it werent for covid, its possible the Flyers would have gone even deeper in the playoffs last year and would be doing much better this season.

At the end of the day, this disaster of a season revealed some gaping holes. Hart is not a number 1 goalie and may not even be an nhl goalie. Provy cant be counted on as a number 1 D. Hayes is a 3c at best. Myers may not be a top 4 D.

Scott is going to give Fletcher this offseason to fix those holes. Fletcher is going to give AV next season to make it work. If the team fails, both will be gone.

We shall see. An issue with the Flyers has been an unwillingness to be proactive, aside from Holmgren dropping the dime on Richards and Carter when he did which history proved to be the right move. The PTB can keep AV for another season and be a high lottery team after next year with sagging ticket sales. Schemes of play hide team weaknesses and accentuate strengths. AV does neither. It has exposed good young talent which may take seasons to recover. If you don’t think that Hart is not an NHL goalie, there’s nothing more to say about your talent evaluation.

 

[1865]

Got a thought. I know COVID makes it tough to immediately replace a coaching staff with a new one, so I have a feeling that even before the season is done, if Chuck is worth anything, Chuck has someone lined up already to take over for AV and crew for when the season ends.

We all know how this ends. AV leading the team into the 28/29 season.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

AV says again and again that this is a playoff team, it's playoffs or bust, blah blah blah. Pretty much everyone agreed prior to the season, the Flyers should make the playoffs. Yet they'll fall incredibly short in an embarrassing fashion. That, to me, screams COACHING ISSUES.
If everyone agrees the roster is playoff bound and they don't even get close, who's fault is that primarily?

If the only two choices are "Playoffs" or "Bust," and the result is "Bust," then something needs to be smashed. He is writing checks with his mouth that his ass can't cash, mostly because the only one around here with that kind of anal dexterity is deadhead, who types all of his posts with his ass.

 

[Rebels57]

Remember, AV is someone who will never blame himself for mistakes. Either gives some generic non-answer for bullshit, gives up some sort of excuse for their troubles when other teams have been fine having the same issue (or righted the ship) or he picks out specific players to be critical about. He is very far up his own ass, thinking he's never wrong.



Gotta love the "don't blame the coaching staff, blame all the players who are apparently bad now and won't be better or have known to be better," rhetoric...

Clearcut #1 performance in each of his first 2 seasons in the NHL at 20 and 21 years old followed by a phenomenal performance in his 1st playoff run (.926 SPCTG) and suddenly "he's not a #1 goalie and possibly not an NHL goalie" lol

How about, the entire team is shit this year and a fish rots from the head down (with that head being AV's martini soaked melon).

His struggles would have likely been a blip on the radar this season that was quickly recovered from (most goalies have a down stretch each season) if not for the 4-Alarm Tire Fire in front of him and the coaching staff that not only doesn't have answers, they don't even know what the questions are.

 

[Embiid]

I fear that Holmgren and Clarke for historical reasons are telling Chuck that the org has to stop the coaching carousel and now it's about firing players. If they are following this rationale because of optics and ideology and choosing to double down on a fundamentally flawed coach we are going to waste at least another half decade. The organizational double vision of this org has me quite frightened....horrified even.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Clearcut #1 performance in each of his first 2 seasons in the NHL at 20 and 21 years old followed by a phenomenal performance in his 1st playoff run (.926 SPCTG) and suddenly "he's not a #1 goalie and possibly not an NHL goalie" lol

How about, the entire team is shit this year and a fish rots from the head down (with that head being AV's martini soaked melon).

His struggles would have likely been a blip on the radar this season that was quickly recovered from (most goalies have a down stretch each season) if not for the 4-Alarm Tire Fire in front of him and the coaching staff that not only doesn't have answers, they don't even know what the questions are.

I think in a way, the coaching staff doesn't care about the questions. Also, the constant swapping of line mates from game in and game out completely eliminates any kind of chemistry that may grow from it.

 

[Rebels57]

I think in a way, the coaching staff doesn't care about the questions. Also, the constant swapping of line mates from game in and game out completely eliminates any kind of chemistry that may grow from it.

Yep. I get there are unique challenges this year, but I want to reiterate that this is the worst job I have seen a coaching staff do with a Flyers team over a full season in my time as a fan.

And I really don't think people understand how much hatred I had for Hakstol. It made me feel violent.

 

[Embiid]

We shall see. An issue with the Flyers has been an unwillingness to be proactive, aside from Holmgren dropping the dime on Richards and Carter when he did which history proved to be the right move. The PTB can keep AV for another season and be a high lottery team after next year with sagging ticket sales. Schemes of play hide team weaknesses and accentuate strengths. AV does neither. It has exposed good young talent which may take seasons to recover. If you don’t think that Hart is not an NHL goalie, there’s nothing more to say about your talent evaluation.

Holmgren was bold with moving Richards and Carter and had to be done despite the chortles from those protecting those two especially druggie Richards. Problem was how Holmgren followed it up with the disastrous signings of Bryz, AMac, Lecadaverlier, getting Luke Schenn, etc etc

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Yep. I get there are unique challenges this year, but I want to reiterate that this is the worst job I have seen a coaching staff do with a Flyers team over a full season in my time as a fan.

And I really don't think people understand how much hatred I had for Hakstol. It made me feel violent.

Hak was awful in his own way (shooting so much from the point for low danger chances and overall bad personnel choices were way up there), but AV and crew are making the team weaker and worse in many more areas. PP has been hampered like crazy (PP under Hak was generally good), PK has been absolutely horrendous (reminds me of Hak as the PK suffered hard under him and Lappy) and bad defensive systems put into place giving no help to the goalies (at least Hak was able to achieve this, and he had f***ing Andy Mac on the team). Both are awful, but I think AV is worse, and it's kind of crazy how much faster it became apparent, compared to Hak, how bad he really is as a coach.