WJC: Attendance....

[NorCAHockeyFan]

Cause the only people who like the US are Americans.

Actually it has to do with the fact that the US is Canada's only competition in their pool, that they always play against each other on New Year's Day to determine who will win the pool, that we seem to run into each other in the playoffs often, and that were neighbours. So frankly it should be no surprise.

Pretty much as I thought. Rivalry. Just was wondering if it had anything to do with the first part of your reply or not. I'm not a well traveled man nor do I keep up with world events so just wasn't sure.

 

[NorCAHockeyFan]

Taunting our bench during the game last year, when you went up 2-0.

Caused a lot of bad feelings - also woke our team up, so a doubly dumb move. We were no better for retaliating, but there you go.

Ah, we awoke a sleeping giant. Yea, not to bright on our part.

 

[Davebo*]

Just so folks know what I'm talking about. We were dumb for retaliating, but no team would take that crap - especially on home soil.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFnMjWXXqyE

 

[Mihairokov]

TOP 11 U20 Attendances Since 2000 (By Average) Location, Total Attendance, Average Attendance
2009 Top Ottawa, Canada 453,282 14,622
2006 Top Kamloops, Kelowna & Vancouver, Canada 325,138 10,488
2003 Top Halifax & Sydney, Canada 231,393 7,464
2005 Top Grand Forks & Thief River Falls, USA 193,256 6,234
2002 Top Pardubice & Hradec Kralove, Czech Rep 111,128 3,628
2008 Top Pardubice & Liberec, Czech Republic 103,179 3,328
2004 Top Helsinki & Hameenlinna, Finland 102,869 3,318
2001 Top Moscow & Podolsk, Russia 82,400 2,423
2003 DIV IA Almaty, Kazakhstan 35,300 2,353
2008 DIV IB Riga, Latvia 33,320 2,221
2007 Top Leksand & Mora, Sweden 63,493 2,048

The thing to remember with these numbers are the sizes of the arenas used. I think we're all aware that the arenas used in Leksand & Mora aren't the same size as what is used in Vancouver or Ottawa. Surely if Sweden held their U20s at the Globe Arena or Scandinavium their numbers would be higher, one would think.

 

[HockeyAddict]

Within the context of the criticism, markets outside of Canada are not relevant to the discussion. Saskatchewan won a bid against stronger markets because they guaranteed more money up front. Larger, stronger markets including Winnipeg and Halifax. Clearly they were basing that on the potential of the market, or one would hope anyway.

So it goes one of two ways:

(1) The tournament should have never gone to Saskastchewan in the first place
or
(2) The fan support has been a big disappointment.

Or I suppose it could be a mixture of both.

I to was surprised to see empty seats for the exhibition games + first Canadian game but you are being overly critical IMO. If Saskatchewan outbid the others - they deserve to host. And while there have been empty seats, considering the arena has a capacity of 13,000 and Saskatoon has a population of approx 200,000 - that a pretty damn good turnout by Saskatoon... makes me wonder why they have such a large arena considering the size of the city. Nothing wrong with having smaller cities host these championship once in a while.

 

[BlackAces*]

In Grand Forks, Canadian (mostly Manitoban) fans played a big part of the success of that tournament.

 

[Mihairokov]

For the tournament in 2005 in Grand Forks, Canada averaged an attendance of 9,751 per game whilst the Americans averaged 8,636 with one more game played.

GP Spect AVG
1 CAN 6 58508 9751
2 USA 7 60453 8636

 

[BlackAces*]

I to was surprised to see empty seats for the exhibition games + first Canadian game but you are being overly critical IMO. If Saskatchewan outbid the others - they deserve to host. And while there have been empty seats, considering the arena has a capacity of 13,000 and Saskatoon has a population of approx 200,000 - that a pretty damn good turnout by Saskatoon... makes me wonder why they have such a large arena considering the size of the city. Nothing wrong with having smaller cities host these championship once in a while.

There is nothing wrong with having smaller cities hosting it at all. Halifax is a smaller city, and they still sold out their building.

And if we agree that there is nothing wrong with smaller cities hosting it, than why does Hockey Canada give it to the bid with the most money guaranteed? Seems rather stupid to insist that smaller markets compete financially with the kinds of money larger cities can put down.

And nobody made Saskatoon build a rink that size (15,000), so them not filling it is not that impressive to me. Obviously they built it because they felt they could support it (one would assume?).

 

[R S]

TOP 11 U20 Attendances Since 2000 (By Average) Location, Total Attendance, Average Attendance
2009 Top Ottawa, Canada 453,282 14,622
2006 Top Kamloops, Kelowna & Vancouver, Canada 325,138 10,488
2003 Top Halifax & Sydney, Canada 231,393 7,464
2005 Top Grand Forks & Thief River Falls, USA 193,256 6,234
2002 Top Pardubice & Hradec Kralove, Czech Rep 111,128 3,628
2008 Top Pardubice & Liberec, Czech Republic 103,179 3,328
2004 Top Helsinki & Hameenlinna, Finland 102,869 3,318
2001 Top Moscow & Podolsk, Russia 82,400 2,423
2003 DIV IA Almaty, Kazakhstan 35,300 2,353
2008 DIV IB Riga, Latvia 33,320 2,221
2007 Top Leksand & Mora, Sweden 63,493 2,048

The thing to remember with these numbers are the sizes of the arenas used. I think we're all aware that the arenas used in Leksand & Mora aren't the same size as what is used in Vancouver or Ottawa. Surely if Sweden held their U20s at the Globe Arena or Scandinavium their numbers would be higher, one would think.

So by that list Saskatoon will likely fit in somewhere in the top few. Sure, not comparing at all to Ottawa last year, but those numbers are crazy.

So, all those people calling out Saskatoon for not matching Ottawa need to keep this whole thing in context. Saskatoon and Regina will still put on a good show, despite not coming close to Ottawa's attendance numbers.

 

[Davebo*]

So by that list Saskatoon will likely fit in somewhere in the top few. Sure, not comparing at all to Ottawa last year, but those numbers are crazy.

So, all those people calling out Saskatoon for not matching Ottawa need to keep this whole thing in context. Saskatoon and Regina will still put on a good show, despite not coming close to Ottawa's attendance numbers.

It's not about breaking attendance records. It's about filling what you have. And for a supposed hockey crazed area, the rink wasn't full, which is a bummer.

 

[Mihairokov]

So by that list Saskatoon will likely fit in somewhere in the top few. Sure, not comparing at all to Ottawa last year, but those numbers are crazy.

So, all those people calling out Saskatoon for not matching Ottawa need to keep this whole thing in context. Saskatoon and Regina will still put on a good show, despite not coming close to Ottawa's attendance numbers.

I believe Sask will fall just behind Vancouver if the numbers hold up.

 

[jessebelanger]

There is nothing wrong with having smaller cities hosting it at all. Halifax is a smaller city, and they still sold out their building.

And if we agree that there is nothing wrong with smaller cities hosting it, than why does Hockey Canada give it to the bid with the most money guaranteed? Seems rather stupid to insist that smaller markets compete financially with the kinds of money larger cities can put down.

And nobody made Saskatoon build a rink that size (15,000), so them not filling it is not that impressive to me. Obviously they built it because they felt they could support it (one would assume?).

Ignorance is bliss, I suppose!

 

[BlackAces*]

Ignorance is bliss, I suppose!

Which point are you taking issue with?

 

[saskhab]

It's not about breaking attendance records. It's about filling what you have. And for a supposed hockey crazed area, the rink wasn't full, which is a bummer.

Again, the arena size was made 3000 seats larger. They sold about 1500 more tickets than their previous arena size. And most of the empties (I'm here right now) are in the new area, since they didn't sell the packages there until the seats were actually physically in place.

Again, this is a huge arena for the area. If you guys want to say Saskatchewan has a million people to draw from, realize that all those in outside communities would have to stay with relatives or in hotels for two full weeks to attend the whole event. That's a hell of an expense.

If those other places really wanted it, they should've put together a better bid. They didn't, so blame them.

 

[jessebelanger]

Which point are you taking issue with?

I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make. That people in saskatoon don't like hockey as much as those in Halifax, or Winnipeg. Is that your point?

 

[BlackAces*]

Again, the arena size was made 3000 seats larger. They sold about 1500 more tickets than their previous arena size. And most of the empties (I'm here right now) are in the new area, since they didn't sell the packages there until the seats were actually physically in place.

Again, this is a huge arena for the area. If you guys want to say Saskatchewan has a million people to draw from, realize that all those in outside communities would have to stay with relatives or in hotels for two full weeks to attend the whole event. That's a hell of an expense.

If those other places really wanted it, they should've put together a better bid. They didn't, so blame them.

Saskatchewan put a bid together based on artificially high numbers of what they would pull in (clearly). They guaranteed more money than Ottawa.It isn't the other cities' fault for being fiscally responsible. Don't blame them for Saskatchewan getting eyes bigger than their stomach.

The Ottawa event was the most successful world junior in history. To win the bid, Ottawa guaranteed a profit of $12 million. It looks like the tournament will bring in around $14 million. Eugene Melynk, owner of the Ottawa Senators, personally guaranteed any shortfall.

The Ontario government did chip in with a $3 million contribution.

The profit guarantee in 2003, when the tournament was held in Halifax, was $3 million.

"Even at $3 million, we all gulped and said 'My God,' " Winston said.

Saskatchewan’s bid includes a guaranteed profit commitment of $12.5 million, with projection to establish a financial return that will be in excess of $13 million.

Forget the other games, they can't even sell out the Team Canada games, and that is pathetic.

 

[BlackAces*]

I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make. That people in saskatoon don't like hockey as much as those in Halifax, or Winnipeg. Is that your point?

The point is they didn't have anything that qualified them to host this tournament other than guaranteeing an ass load of money and over paying. Stronger markets who would support the tournament better were passed over because of it.

Not selling out the Team Canada games is pathetic.

Ugh, hopefully this will just be a lesson learned going forward.

 

[HockeyAddict]

Forget the other games, they can't even sell out the Team Canada games, and that is pathetic.

Geez, calling Saskatoon pathetic for "only" having 12,500 attend Canada's first tournament game against Latvia seems to be pretty harsh. You seem to be taking this to much to heart... As to the financial consideration, if Saskatoon was willing to put up the $$$ to bring this event to their city well, that's their business. And if they fall short of their projections, it will be their problem. I don't see a reason to get worked up about it.

 

[jessebelanger]

The point is they didn't have anything that qualified them to host this tournament other than guaranteeing an ass load of money and over paying. Stronger markets who would support the tournament better were passed over because of it.

Not selling out the Team Canada games is pathetic.

Ugh, hopefully this will just be a lesson learned going forward.

Ahh - ok, I see now.

So this thread was started as a gripe about attendance, but now you're talking about dollars, not attendance.

Do you have any data regarding the revenues generated thus far, at this tournament or previous ones? Or even the price point of packages at this tournament vs previous tournaments?

 

[BlackAces*]

Geez, calling Saskatoon pathetic for "only" having 12,500 attend Canada's first tournament game against Latvia seems to be pretty harsh. You seem to be taking this to much to heart... As to the financial consideration, if Saskatoon was willing to put up the $$$ to bring this event to their city well, that's their business. And if they fall short of their projections, it will be their problem. I don't see a reason to get worked up about it.

I would rather see full arenas and the best fan support possible. It is a shame that people in better markets don't get it instead of a place that doesn't have the fan support. Simply because the government was willing to spend tax payer dollars.

Sucks that the sell out streak is over, and it sucks that Canada will be playing in front of buildings that aren't full.

 

[BlackAces*]

Ahh - ok, I see now.

So this thread was started as a gripe about attendance, but now you're talking about dollars, not attendance.

Do you have any data regarding the revenues generated thus far, at this tournament or previous ones? Or even the price point of packages at this tournament vs previous tournaments?

No, I am saying the attendance is the result of putting the tournament in a place where it doesn't have the fan support, simply because their government over paid. I like watching full arenas and good atmosphere. Instead I get thousands of empty seats and fans who throw hats on the ice during a 16-0 blow out.

Ugh

 

[jessebelanger]

No, I am saying the attendance is the result of putting the tournament in a place where it doesn't have the fan support, simply because their government over paid. I like watching full arenas and good atmosphere. Instead I get thousands of empty seats and fans who throw hats on the ice during a 16-0 blow out.

Ugh

I realize you're saying that, I'm trying to identify the information so that we can actually make some accurate statements. You're suggesting the attendance is the result of poor fan support, yet you

A) don't have any data regarding the price points

B) don't have any data regarding the price points of previous sold out events

C) are not presenting any data regarding the different sizes of venues of this event vs years past (you mentioned halifax - consider a "sold out" metro center of 11k vs a "not sold out" Credit Union Center with attendance of 13k

D) are dismissing legitimate reasons for not attending games (poor weather, poor roads, holidays, the game being a foregone conclusion, families having other boxing day traditions) as "excuses", despite the fact that similar conditions in almost any other city in the world would result in MUCH poorer attendance.

E) Have failed to consider a MILLION other points that go into choosing a site for an event like this. I don't want to spend all night doing this, so I'll simply point you to Hockey Canada's mission statement and implore you to think about how Hockey Canada's goals may impact the selection of a bid, and perhaps consider that events such as these are not always only about $$.

 

[mcvey]

I think he's just pissed that his area(Winnipeg?) didn't get to host or something and he's lashing out in completely bogus ways.

He's reaching. Really really reaching.

 

[Lunatik*]

http://www.iihf.com/en/channels0910...html?tx_ttnews[backPid]=2956&cHash=1beb7042f8

i know trolling is your schtick... but they are listing gate attendance not paid attendance... maybe its beyond your grasp but htere is a difference between the 2

 

[SilverSeven]

Im kinda curious why this tournament hasnt been in Toronto...seems kinda too obvious so I assume im missing out on an obvious reason.

Because Toronto is NOT a hockey city, it is a Leafs city. Look at the numbers.