ATD2020 Draft Thread I

[tinyzombies]

From King Clancy's autobiography:

 

[tinyzombies]

He wasn't prone to exaggeration or anything.

 

[BenchBrawl]

To continue on the topic of my Round 1 list from the Top 100 Project—which is far from a finished product—I had Mark Messier at 17th overall, over Mikita, Esposito, Clarke, Trottier, Taylor, Sakic and all the rest. I also had Sprague Cleghorn at 42th overall, over Chelios, Park, Pilote, Clancy, Coffey, Pronger and all the rest. At least I'm putting my money where my mouth is.

I would probably rank Clancy over Cleghorn today though, since I worked on the Ottawa Dynasty project and realized how important Clancy was to the 1923 and 1927 Stanley Cup championships. But I'll work on a Cleghorn bio and I might change my mind again (positively or negatively). Who knows? Less likely I change my mind about Messier though.

 

[tinyzombies]

To continue on the topic of my Round 1 list from the Top 100 Project—which is far from a finished product—I had Mark Messier at 17th overall, over Mikita, Esposito, Clarke, Trottier, Taylor, Sakic and all the rest. I also had Sprague Cleghorn at 42th overall, over Chelios, Park, Pilote, Clancy, Coffey, Pronger and all the rest. At least I'm putting my money where my mouth is.

I would probably rank Clancy over Cleghorn today though, since I worked on the Ottawa Dynasty project and realized how important Clancy was to the 1923 and 1927 Stanley Cup championships. But I'll work on a Cleghorn bio and I might change my mind again (positively or negatively). Who knows? Less likely I change my mind about Messier though.

Look at Trottier's ppg. I love how I now have to debate a player I used to detest. He always seems to defer to Bossy, but Trottier provided the speed, muscle and possession (with help from Potvin, of course). Bossy made the possession pay off.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Look at Trottier's ppg. I love how I now have to debate a player I used to detest. He always seems to defer to Bossy, but Trottier provided the speed, muscle and possession (with help from Potvin, of course). Bossy made the possession pay off.

I love Bryan Trottier a lot too. It's no insult for a player if I rank Mark Messier over him. Messier did it for longer, that's basically it.

 

[tinyzombies]

I love Bryan Trottier a lot too. It's no insult for a player if I rank Mark Messier over him. Messier did it for longer, that's basically it.

I haven't been convinced by the anti-Messier arguments on here. I saw with my eyeballs and he has the hardware to back it up. The back end of his career should just be cleaned off the counter and thrown in the trash.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I haven't been convinced by the anti-Messier arguments on here. I saw with my eyeballs and he has the hardware to back it up. The back end of his career should just be cleaned off the counter and thrown in the trash.

Messier brought the goods. The package was delivered and received—in time ! I'm less open to intellectual (statistical) arguments for players I saw play with my own eyes, especially players of Messier's mold.

Though I didn't watch him all the time like @VanIslander who probably never missed a game lol.

 

[tinyzombies]

Messier brought the goods. The package was delivered and received—in time ! I'm less open to intellectual (statistical) arguments for players I saw play with my own eyes, especially players of Messier's mold.

Though I didn't watch him all the time like @VanIslander who probably never missed a game lol.

Oh - didn't know that. Have to defer to VI.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I haven't been convinced by the anti-Messier arguments on here. I saw with my eyeballs and he has the hardware to back it up. The back end of his career should just be cleaned off the counter and thrown in the trash.

Double-reply.

As for his late-career resume; yeah right? Who cares?! I never understood people wanting to take away from his resume for things he did after age 37. The guy wanted his money after a work well-done. Let the man have it.

To this day I find the Vancouver fanbase silly for this reason (not making generalization, but as a group it's the strongest thing uniting them: Hating on 37+ years old Mark Messier).

 

[BenchBrawl]

Oh - didn't know that. Have to defer to VI.

I'm just assuming lol.

@VanIslander, talk to us about Messier.

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

I'd take Nighbor in a 7 game series.

IF he could take his Martinsville-shaped Arena with him...

 

[Habsfan18]

Double-reply.

As for his late-career resume; yeah right? Who cares?! I never understood people wanting to take away from his resume for things he did after age 37. The guy wanted his money after a work well-done. Let the man have it.

To this day I find the Vancouver fanbase silly for this reason (not making generalization, but as a group it's the strongest thing uniting them: Hating on 37+ years old Mark Messier).

Well, I mean the guy cashed in big and then completely mailed it in. He clearly didn’t give a crap at that that point. Did it hurt his overall legacy? No, it really shouldn’t. But do I blame Vancouver fans for their hatred of his stint there? Absolutely not.

If anything though, Vancouver’s management should also be to blame there. Taking a 37 year old Messier and essentially selling that to the fanbase as big things were on the way..Well, that’s not all on Mess..

 

[ImporterExporter]

IF he could take his Martinsville-shaped Arena with him...

Them's the times to be sure.

 

[BenchBrawl]

IF he could take his Martinsville-shaped Arena with him...

Nighbor won out west.

 

[ImporterExporter]

So this must have been before my time started here but i was skimming old draft threads and saw somebody once drafted an arena!?!?!

What in the actual f***? I'd vote for that guy just for having the stones to pull that shit. That'd be like me drafting Gordon f***ing Bombay in round 24 here.

 

[tinyzombies]

Nighbor won out west.

Clancy did say Nighbor was the best player in the world when he first got to Ottawa and that it was surreal to room with him. Nighbor told him to keep his body in shape and to take frequent naps.

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

Don't think anyone who played out west at that time could do a credible peak Morenz imitation.

 

[Habsfan18]

Wasn’t that @BenchBrawl?
The arena?

 

[BenchBrawl]

So this must have been before my time started here but i was skimming old draft threads and saw somebody once drafted an arena!?!?!

What in the actual ****? I'd vote for that guy just for having the stones to pull that ****. That'd be like me drafting Gordon ****ing Bombay in round 24 here.

That was me in my first draft in ATD2011 when I drafted the Montreal Forum and protested when they refused to allow it.

I also tried and almost succeeded in getting both Gretzky and Lemieux in that same 40 teams draft. Thankfully the trade was vetoed but it took a lot of debates. I ended up making another trade and got Gretzky and Lidstrom.

And wasn't that the year I also drafted Georges Laraque?

All in all, a successful entry into the ATD world.

 

[tinyzombies]

Clancy also said Gerard was a heckuva piano player and somehow they managed to steal a piano and sneak it onto the train at one of their westbound stops on the way to defend the Cup. Clancy was a rookie and didn't drink but they made him kick in and it cost him all his money at the time. So they weren't in the best shape when they arrived, but played well.

 

[Dreakmur]

Sorry for the delay, I'll take Russian left winger Anatoli Firsov

 

[Habsfan18]

Did anyone in the top 100 voting have Nighbor over Morenz? I always viewed Morenz as a clear tier ahead, no? I mean maybe not a big gap, but a tier ahead nonetheless.

From all my research and reading, I can’t recall a single historical opinion ranking Nighbor as the superior player of the two.

Of course I could be missing something. Could it be possible that while Morenz was the “bigger name” and flashier player, Nighbor was quietly the more superior player?

Could it be similar to the Crosby and Ovechkin situation over the years? Ovechkin is the flashier player and to the casual fan may more easily pass the eye test as the “better” player, but those who really follow and study the game knows that it’s without a doubt Sid The Kid.

Could the situation very well have been the same with Morenz and Nighbor?

 

[tinyzombies]

Did anyone in the top 100 voting have Nighbor over Morenz? I always viewed Morenz as a clear tier ahead, no? I mean maybe not a big gap, but a tier ahead nonetheless.

From all my research and reading, I can’t recall a single historical opinion ranking Nighbor as the superior player of the two.

Of course I could be missing something. Could it be possible that while Morenz was the “bigger name” and flashier player, Nighbor was quietly the more superior player?

Could it be similar to the Crosby and Ovechkin situation over the years? Ovechkin is the flashier player and to the casual fan may more easily pass the eye test as the “better” player, but those who really follow and study the game knows that it’s without a doubt Sid The Kid.

Could the situation very well have been the same with Morenz and Nighbor?

Except that everyone said Morenz was solid at both ends and could get back in a flash a la Orr and went up and down the ice endlessly.

 

[RustyRazor]

So, as I wait for my next turn to pick (and wait, and wait... 40 teams, yeesh!) I'm struck by an unanticipated consequence of going goalie with my first pick -- I'm having to prioritize players with captain experience (who might be slightly lesser players to others on my board) so that I can get a suitable captain. I don't have buyers remorse yet, but my life would be easier if I pulled the trigger on Sakic/Trottier/Clarke/Esposito in that first spot -- and I almost did, but changed my mind.

Edit: I guess Espo and Trottier wouldn't have solved my issue, but the point remains for the other two.

 

[The Macho King]

Sorry for the delay, I'll take Russian left winger Anatoli Firsov

That pick kind of surprised me.

Edit - not that he isn't an excellent player. Just that your first two picks were wingers.