ATD2019 Draft Thread II

[Dreakmur]

Punch Imlach team: Jacques Laperriere is an excellent partner for Eddie Shore, and I like Johnson - Thomson a lot, as well. Gonchar is in his correct role at 20 teams as a 3rd pairing PP specialist, where he is strong. Harper is a little weaker a partner than I'd have liked for Sergei (and 3rd pairings are really going to matter in this draft with all the bottom line offensive talent out there at 20 teams), but overall this defense is well-constructed, and well-balanced between the surliness of Shore/Thomson and the implacable efficiency of Laperriere/Johnson. I think Punch would be into it.

First line will have defensive issues. I don't view Cook or Denneny as defensive negatives, but they're not known for their checking either, and Apps is known for not being especially conscientious in his own end. Also, the impression I get of Apps is that he was at his best carrying the puck, himself, and liked to get in close before passing. The wingers here can certainly adapt, but I wonder if Apps is a perfect fit for their styles. I'd swap Perry and Cook. This puts a letter on each line, makes the 2nd line a real threat (as constituted, it looks a little meh). Third line is nails; don't get the 4th line.

Thanks for doing this Sturm!

You're the 2nd one to bring it up, so it must be an issue. What doesn't work about the Stevens-Weiland-Tocchet line? To me, Weiland reads like a poor-man's Doug Gilmour, who I think would work perfectly well with 2 super-tough power forwards. Am I miss-reading Weiland or miss-reading the fit?

Perhaps Joe Primeau fits in better there...

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Fred Shero team: Kelly - Stevens is about as good as it gets. Boucher - Gardiner also looks quite strong, and Neilson - Subban is fine for a bottom pairing. Nothing much to say here: this blueline is just good.

Same thing I said about Trottier: Schmidt didn't do the whole defensive thing on his own, and it is a rare center who can hold things down defensively for a line essentially by himself. Neither Schriner nor Lafleur is going to do any checking, so Milt Schmidt will have a lot of long days. In fact, I might think of swapping Elias and Schriner. Third line looks like a well-balanced unit. 4th line is mostly specialists.

This is one of my favorite teams in the draft. I'm not in love with how the scoringlines are arrayed at present, but the talent level is there, the defense is excellent, and both the coach and goalie are good.

Very much appreciated Sturm. I'm going to take your advice, and move Elias to the top line. He's the type of guys who can play any role you need him to and Lafleur isn't biased toward playmaking or goalscoring, he can just do it all, so I think it works, and will give Schmidt some help. This should also make matchups difficult on my opponents, Schriner-Malone is a pretty deadly combo, and opponents will be forced to make a choice to focus on them or Lafleur.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Toe Blake team: average top pairing in terms of talent that I somehow think will be better than the sum of its parts. Taylor on a 2nd pairing is a real power move, and Mantha is a good partner for him. Pospisil on a 3rd pairing is absurd, and Joe Hall as a #6 is almost as dumb. I don't know what this GM has planned, but I dunno if there are really enough minutes to go around. If I were running this team, I'd probably work up some sort of weird, elaborate minutes plan which had Taylor bouncing around the lineup and the rest of the defensemen getting a minutes load commensurate with their talents. Blake is capable of handling this. He's one of the few coaches with whom you can probably get away with wacky minutes/line rotation plans, and Taylor is maybe the single best player in the draft to implement them.

The Howes are united! Not sure how I feel about Hawerchuk on this line. Is he dynamic enough offensively to make up for the fact that he's not an especially well-rounded center? The 2nd line is really talented. How good was Maltsev defensively? I don't remember there being too much on his defense, and I don't love making Ted Kennedy into Steve Rucchin, but I guess he's probably as good as any scoringline center not named Nighbor, Boucher or Clarke at covering for a line defensively by himself. Would liked a better set of wingers for Petrov. Hay is fine, but Cleghorn leaves me wanting more.

This was 100% my plan once I took both Petrov and Hawerchuk

 

[Sturminator]

Thanks for doing this Sturm!

You're the 2nd one to bring it up, so it must be an issue. What doesn't work about the Stevens-Weiland-Tocchet line? To me, Weiland reads like a poor-man's Doug Gilmour, who I think would work perfectly well with 2 super-tough power forwards. Am I miss-reading Weiland or miss-reading the fit?

Perhaps Joe Primeau fits in better there...

Weiland was a small, skilled, mobile, latter-day hook-checker, iirc. Now that I look at it again...I guess I can see it, putting him between two bulls. Weiland can cover a lot of ice defensively in the middle, and the unit can play a lot of dump-and-chase in attack. Get them out there against soft defensemen, and you might have something. Guess I don't mind it, after all. Something I hadn't even considered before, but it should work at what it does.

 

[Sturminator]

About my 1st line: Like we did in 2013, I wanted to reunite Boucher with the closest thing to Bill Cook as possible.As my pick was coming close, Mikhailov got taken just before my turn and if I had lost Iginla I would have been screwed.Only Hextall Sr. was left that was more or less similar to Bill Cook.I think Boucher-Iginla is as close as was possible without picking Cook himself or Mikhailov.

Boucher - Iginla is a tremendous combination, and you were smart to just stick the most talented LW you could find on the other wing (just assuming...haven't actually looked at the draft yet).

Should be said Benn is my 2nd best LW ahead of Northcott, and that he is better now that he was in 2017 when I had him with Fredrickson.So I agree my 2nd line is not strong offensively, but like you said it is great defensively and on the counter attack.My 3rd line is like the Benn-Fredrickson-Amonte line from 2017 on steroid.Taylor is better than Amonte, is also a good skater and has more size, and Benn is boosted.

Yes, your second and third lines may generate roughly equal points, and you've got some matchup advantages (speed on the 2nd; size on the 3rd) which can be pressed.

 

[Sturminator]

Very much appreciated Sturm. I'm going to take your advice, and move Elias to the top line. He's the type of guys who can play any role you need him to and Lafleur isn't biased toward playmaking or goalscoring, he can just do it all, so I think it works, and will give Schmidt some help. This should also make matchups difficult on my opponents, Schriner-Malone is a pretty deadly combo, and opponents will be forced to make a choice to focus on them or Lafleur.

Yes, I agree with all of that. Also, though Elias - Schmidt are of modest talent for top-liners in this, their games actually service Lafleur quite well, and Schriner - Malone is, as you say, too dangerous a combination to leave unchecked, with Dillon strong in support. Of your offensive troika (Lafleur, Schriner, Malone), we know that Malone did quite well on a line with Lalonde, while peak Lafleur always dominated his own lines, so I think this move offers your best shot at maximizing total offense, to say nothing of improved defensive balance. The fact that you attack right-handed on one line, and left-handed on the other, is interesting, as well. This will be a tough team to check. Might be my favorite of all your teams, HT.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Boucher - Iginla is a tremendous combination, and you were smart to just stick the most talented LW you could find on the other wing (just assuming...haven't actually looked at the draft yet).

Depends on who you think is the most talented LW among these guys.

165.BenchBrawl - Montreal Canadiens - Alexander Yakushev, LW
169.Dreakmur - Sokovia Recorders - Roy Conacher, LW
170.Namba 17 - Portage Lakes Hockey Club - John LeClair, LW
172.King Forsberg - Atlanta Flames - Ilya Kovalchuk, LW
176.Claude the Fraud - Baie-Comeau Drakkar - Keith Tkachuk, LW
178.Hawkey Town 18 - Chicago Shamrocks - Patrik Elias, LW
180.Wrigley - Michigan Wolverines - Paul Thompson, LW
184.Habsfan18 - Vancouver Millionaires - Markus Naslund, LW
186.TheDevilMadeMe - New Jersey Swamp Devils - Reg Noble, LW/C/D
195.Leaf Lander - Toronto Maple Leafs - Bill Barber, LW
196.BenchBrawl - Montreal Canadiens - Jamie Benn, LW

Kind of a cluster.

 

[Sturminator]

This was 100% my plan once I took both Petrov and Hawerchuk

I look forward to seeing your icetime breakdowns and matchups once the playoffs start. Being able to move Taylor all around the lineup with that kinda coach is a fascinating strategic choice. Well done.

 

[Sturminator]

Depends on who you think is the most talented LW among these guys.

165.BenchBrawl - Montreal Canadiens - Alexander Yakushev, LW
169.Dreakmur - Sokovia Recorders - Roy Conacher, LW
170.Namba 17 - Portage Lakes Hockey Club - John LeClair, LW
172.King Forsberg - Atlanta Flames - Ilya Kovalchuk, LW
176.Claude the Fraud - Baie-Comeau Drakkar - Keith Tkachuk, LW
178.Hawkey Town 18 - Chicago Shamrocks - Patrik Elias, LW
180.Wrigley - Michigan Wolverines - Paul Thompson, LW
184.Habsfan18 - Vancouver Millionaires - Markus Naslund, LW
186.TheDevilMadeMe - New Jersey Swamp Devils - Reg Noble, LW/C/D
195.Leaf Lander - Toronto Maple Leafs - Bill Barber, LW
196.BenchBrawl - Montreal Canadiens - Jamie Benn, LW

Kind of a cluster.

Yak was a good choice. Probably the best stylistic fit offensively, and in the top tier of guys in terms of overall ability.

 

[markrander87]

Tommy Ivan team: the physicality and mobility of this defense, as a whole, really sticks out. Fetisov - Coulter are only about an average top pairing, but they're a good match and good at everything, so can be deployed with ease. Salming - Crawford is a killer 2nd pairing and good enough to take matchups against opposing top lines, if needs be. Beck - Goldham is a strong 3rd pairing, as well. This defense will grind small teams into dust, and can skate with the best of them. Strong fit with the coach (especially Goldham, I suppose).

Love the top line...they would be horrible to play against. I'm into the second line, as well. Pairing Stewart with Sid Abel seems like a match made in heaven, and Fleury adds a nice element to the unit offensively. This unit be fine on the cycle with Abel going low in his own zone, but it will definitely struggle a bit to defend in transition, and you just have to accept and try to plan around that. Third line is just a menace. 4th line is weird.

This team is really a bear...about as good as it gets in terms of winning with goon hockey in the ATD. This team will grind soft units into the dust, and has enough talent to win it all.

This entire post from Sturm (all teams) is going down in the ATD Hall of Fame. Thank you Sturm for taking the time to provide your very welcomed and anticipated views on the teams.

Now back to my shameless plug....I'm really happy he picked up on our want for tough, well skating D. We really wanted that to be the identity of the back end and we hope it was accomplished.

The one small gripe from above was the Defensive coverage with our 2nd line. I can appreciate that but would hope GMs don't sleep on Fleurys defensive abilities. Obviously Abel has the best defensive pedigree on the line and Stewart is well..Nels Stewart.

We all know about Fleurys grit and determination. He was also used quite a lot on the PK (Top-10 in short-handed goals five times: 10th (1990), 2nd (1991), 7th (1996), 8th (1999), 2nd (2001) and is 9th All-Time in Short-Handed Goals (35).

Also BillyShoe has a great Bio on Fleury with several articles mentioning his defensive play as well ATD 2014 - the Bios Thread.

 

[tony d]

As always great to get strums thoughts. Thanks sturm for doing this,

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Joel Quenneville team: low-end, but adequate top pairing. Pretty good second pairing. Reasonable bottom pairing. Nothing much exciting about this group besides the possible Siebert/Seibert shenanigans.

So, the scoringlines of this team look like they will employ some kind of LW locking system? With Delvecchio and Noble hanging back...I dunno, but that's how the personnel look to me. Is Quenneville the right coach for a team that will lean heavily on single wings to hold things down defensively for his scoringlines? Lots of talent on these scoringlines...enough to win with a solid defense and Hasek in net...but I'm just not sure about the coaching/defensive scheme. Third line looks good. MacKay is very good on a third line, though the wingers are only ok talent-wise. Sticking a tough guy like Bailey on MacKay's wing was a good move, especially with non-tough-guys on your bottom pairing.

I'm not surprised you find my two scoring lines a bit weird - I find them kind of weird too. This is what happens when you start them with Maurice Richard and Newsy Lalonde. That said, I think they are among the more talented in the draft and the parts fit together well.

I don't see the team playing a strict LW lock where the LW tries to play like a 3rd defenseman when the other team has the puck. More like a defensive conscience for 2 offensive stars (I don't want to say offense-only because Lalonde brings a ton of toughness), who happens to be on the LW of both lines. Delvecchio can hold his own as a two-way player here; Noble is more of a semi-elite spear carrier (such is life when you have Cowley and The Rocket on the same line).

Seems your one issue with the team is the interaction between Quenneville and my top 6 forwards? I always thought as Quenneville as a fairly versatile coach, who let his scorers do their things, while preaching overall team defense among the rest of the team. Pretty much a "player's coach." In short, I'm basically using him as I would Tommy Ivan.

It's not exactly the same thing, but the fact that Quenneville often made adjustments in the playoffs to great results (much better record in games 4-7 than games 1-3 while coaching Chicago) makes me think of him as more flexible.

Despite the fact that I started with Maurice Richard, I ended up trying to build a "Hasek Team," where the skaters would take more chances than usual, knowing that Hasek is the best ever at stopping odd-man rushes. Tried to build a defensive unit with no defense-only guys for that reason - all of them can move up ice if the opportunity presents itself.

 

[The Macho King]

I guess my vision of the second pairing I had is not shared. Fair enough - it's not a strong point definitely.

 

[Sturminator]

Seems your one issue with the team is the interaction between Quenneville and my top 6 forwards? I always thought as Quenneville as a fairly versatile coach, who let his scorers do their things, while preaching overall team defense among the rest of the team. Pretty much a "player's coach." In short, I'm basically using him as I would Tommy Ivan.

Kinda sorta, yeah. Simply put, yours doesn't remind me of any good team I've ever seen Quenneville coach. Maybe that's recency bias making me picky about a guy whose legacy isn't even closed yet, but Joel's scoring lines in Chicago have been largely built around two-way centers...thinking of Toews, Richards and Sharp here.

 

[The Macho King]

Kinda sorta, yeah. Simply put, yours doesn't remind me of any good team I've ever seen Quenneville coach. Maybe that's recency bias making me picky about a guy whose legacy isn't even closed yet, but Joel's scoring lines in Chicago have been largely built around two-way centers...thinking of Toews, Richards and Sharp here.

Richards as a two way center seems a bit... generous.

 

[Sturminator]

Richards as a two way center seems a bit... generous.

Lol...yeah, I guess that's true. He's no great shakes defensively, though compared to Bill Cowley, anybody is.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Kinda sorta, yeah. Simply put, yours doesn't remind me of any good team I've ever seen Quenneville coach. Maybe that's recency bias making me picky about a guy whose legacy isn't even closed yet, but Joel's scoring lines in Chicago have been largely built around two-way centers...thinking of Toews, Richards and Sharp here.

Don't forget Michal Handzus!

 

[Sturminator]

Don't forget Michal Handzus!

Two-way might be complimenting his offense too highly.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Two-way might be complimenting his offense too highly.

Definitely

 

[BenchBrawl]

Sturminator may be busy.

Let's set a date for regular season voting regardless.

Friday?

Not setting a date yet.Discussions are still ongoing, no rush.

I'll re-evaluate friday or saturday.

 

[Sturminator]

I don't see the team playing a strict LW lock where the LW tries to play like a 3rd defenseman when the other team has the puck.

Having thought about it a bit more, I actually think you'd have been better off with Pitner (or Lemaire?) as coach and a true LW lock system. I am generally skeptical of the idea that a single defensively responsible wing can carry enough spears to maintain defensive cohesion for a whole line if the other two are indifferent checkers. The only time I've seen it work is in a LW locking system, and I think you have the personnel to execute this strategy on your scoringlines, at least (though your 3rd line is a whole different beast with MacKay the hook-checker, and your 4th line has Carbonneau).

I guess another reason I question Quenneville as the selection here is because of how all over the place the defensive system seems to be. You've got left wings trying to hold it down defensively on the scoringlines, a hook checker dominating the 3rd line, and Carbonneau anchoring the 4th. It feels like a schematic jungle, and a tall task for a coach. I'd have probably wanted an elite coach for this team if it wasn't going to go all-in on a LW lock. This is of course a big ask, as you simply got no shot at the top tier of coaches, who burned off in a flash before you came up in the 11th round.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Having thought about it a bit more, I actually think you'd have been better off with Pitner (or Lemaire?) as coach and a true LW lock system. I am generally skeptical of the idea that a single defensively responsible wing can carry enough spears to maintain defensive cohesion for a whole line if the other two are indifferent checkers. The only time I've seen it work is in a LW locking system, and I think you have the personnel to execute this strategy on your scoringlines, at least (though your 3rd line is a whole different beast with MacKay the hook-checker, and your 4th line has Carbonneau).

I guess another reason I question Quenneville as the selection here is because of how all over the place the defensive system seems to be. You've got left wings trying to hold it down defensively on the scoringlines, a hook checker dominating the 3rd line, and Carbonneau anchoring the 4th. It feels like a schematic jungle, and a tall task for a coach. I'd have probably wanted an elite coach for this team if it wasn't going to go all-in on a LW lock. This is of course a big ask, as you simply got no shot at the top tier of coaches, who burned off in a flash before you came up in the 11th round.

I actually see Quenneville as the clear cut most accomplished post-Bowman coach. He's fairly versatile, very accomplished (#2 all-time in regular season wins, #2 all-time in playoff wins), and his adjustments in the playoffs were a factor in Chicago's almost dynasty.

In my own tiers of coaches, I'd actually have him with Arbour and Day, a tier below Bowman/Blake/Patrick. Basically Tommy Ivan with more longevity.

I realize we all see coaches differently.

Also, I meant to reply to your earlier post, but FWIW, when Quenneville won the Jack Adams with St. Louis in 1999-00, he had Turgeon as his #1 center, so Cowley-types aren't totally foreign to him. I realize that St. Louis team wasn't all that hot in the playoffs.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Let's open voting on Wednesday through Saturday, then take the week-end to sort this out and start the playoffs Monday April 1st

 

[tony d]

Sounds good to me, I'm away next weekend so I'll get my votes in early in the voting period.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Sounds good to me, I'm away next weekend so I'll get my votes in early in the voting period.

I'll send a reminder PM come Wednesday.

I will also send one to @Sturminator if he feels like voting.Since he took the time to assassinate every team and is a vet, his votes are welcomed throughout the process.