ATD2019 Draft Thread II
- Thread starter BenchBrawl
- Start date
Say Hey Kid
Whole cell block was dancing to the jailhouse rock
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RW Tie Domi - I'm having heart surgery Monday so my cardiologist and family are shutting me down from the ATD until June, but I'll be watching a lot of NHL and good luck to all in the playoffs.
VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
ImporterExporter
"You're a boring old man"
Wow @Wrigley !
Prayers and well wishes sent your way sir.
Always nice interacting with you and having you a part of this is a good thing.
Prayers and well wishes sent your way sir.
Always nice interacting with you and having you a part of this is a good thing.
Namba 17
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Claude The Fraud
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BenchBrawl
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Add/drops can now begin.
@King Forsberg still needs to make up one of his pick that was skipped
The Lineup Assassination Thread will open tomorrow evening.
Please everyone update your roster post in the roster thread so I can send the lineups to Sturminator tomorrow night.
Thank you for your attention and for contributing to a smooth draft this year.
@King Forsberg still needs to make up one of his pick that was skipped
The Lineup Assassination Thread will open tomorrow evening.
Please everyone update your roster post in the roster thread so I can send the lineups to Sturminator tomorrow night.
Thank you for your attention and for contributing to a smooth draft this year.
Last edited:
Claude The Fraud
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tony d
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VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
BenchBrawl
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The add/drops period will continue throughout the assassinations.
I am opening the Lineup Assassination Thread right now.
@King Forsberg you still have a pick to make.
I am opening the Lineup Assassination Thread right now.
@King Forsberg you still have a pick to make.
BenchBrawl
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Am sending the lineups to Sturminator tonight around 21h EST.
So if you have any change to make, make them now.
So if you have any change to make, make them now.
BenchBrawl
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Lineups sent to Sturminator in an homogeneous generic format.Had to re-write some of them manually, did all of this in good faith.
BenchBrawl
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Sturminator received the lineups and told me he will have the results done by next week-end.
tinyzombies
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VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Macaroons, weren't they? And I hear one of them was Terrible!
tinyzombies
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King Forsberg
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I will take Jakub Voracek, RW
Rare playmaking winger with size and speed. Could be a good fit with Lindros and Giroux if need be.
Rare playmaking winger with size and speed. Could be a good fit with Lindros and Giroux if need be.
tinyzombies
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TheDevilMadeMe
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I should have time to assassinate a bunch of teams this coming weekend
VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sturminator may be busy.
Let's set a date for regular season voting regardless.
Friday?
Sturminator
Love is a duel
Bob Cole
Tommy Gorman team: I don't like the top pairing here. Robinson was not a stay-at-home defenseman by any means, and Karlsson needs one as a partner, especially on a top pairing. I might just bite the bullet, and swap the units around: Robinson - Pulford; Brewer - Vasko; Stanley - Karlsson looks like the best balanced set of units available to you, and spreading around the ES icetime isn't a bad idea with this group of players. Also, get Allan Stanley on that 2nd PK unit in favor of Vasko. Kinda shocked you have Pulford on the 2nd unit PP, as well. There must be a better option open to you somewhere. Has St. Louis played the point in his NHL career? You're not even using him on the power play, at all, at the moment. Henrik Sedin is similarly sitting on the shelf. tl;dr - I like this group of defensemen, but think there are probably better ways to deploy them.
Excellent top line that can do anything. The team has what it takes to run a heavy forechecking scheme in the Gorman style. Second line has attractive parts, but what happens is somebody decides to shadow Dye? I don't love the third line. It's defensively suspect at the most important defensive position (center), and offensively suspect on the wings. Not sure it will be good enough at anything to justify existing as constituted. Seems like Henrik will end up making a lot of passes to nowhere. Might swap in Bernie Morris for Gare at that RW spot.
Anatoly Tarasov team: Lots to love about Pronger - Howe. Kasatonov is a strong #3, while Mortson looks more like a pretty good #5 in this, so that kinda balances it out. Stapleton - Day is a great bottom pairing. Not using Pat Stapleton on the power play feels a bit strange...are we sure that both Howe and Kasatonov were actually better than Stapleton as point men? Also...two different powerplay formations is a bold move, though you've certainly got strong skaters for the job.
Great as Mario is, Dumart - Neely feels a little lighter on talent than I think is ideal for Lemieux's wings. That said, they do everything else you need in Mario's wings extremely well. Second line is nasty. I like flanking Dionne with the savage Lindsay, and the cool-headed Middleton. Seems like an ideal situation for him to succeed. Nick Backstrom as a two-way right wing, eh? How much time has he spent on the wing in his career? One question to answer about this tremendously talented 3rd line. Second question: is it too soft? Does Foyston bring enough grit to make up for the other two? Lotta pop in the unit, though.
Don't understand the 2nd PK unit, at all. What is Mike Richards doing in there, if he's not even starting? Seems like a good spot for Woody Dumart, who could play both sides as a defensive wing.
Punch Imlach team: Jacques Laperriere is an excellent partner for Eddie Shore, and I like Johnson - Thomson a lot, as well. Gonchar is in his correct role at 20 teams as a 3rd pairing PP specialist, where he is strong. Harper is a little weaker a partner than I'd have liked for Sergei (and 3rd pairings are really going to matter in this draft with all the bottom line offensive talent out there at 20 teams), but overall this defense is well-constructed, and well-balanced between the surliness of Shore/Thomson and the implacable efficiency of Laperriere/Johnson. I think Punch would be into it.
First line will have defensive issues. I don't view Cook or Denneny as defensive negatives, but they're not known for their checking either, and Apps is known for not being especially conscientious in his own end. Also, the impression I get of Apps is that he was at his best carrying the puck, himself, and liked to get in close before passing. The wingers here can certainly adapt, but I wonder if Apps is a perfect fit for their styles. I'd swap Perry and Cook. This puts a letter on each line, makes the 2nd line a real threat (as constituted, it looks a little meh). Third line is nails; don't get the 4th line.
Scotty Bowman team: I know pairing Bobby Orr with a pure stay-at-home guy seems like a great idea, but on talent, Hitchman is a low-end 2nd pairing guy at 20 teams, and probably shouldn't be eating up the ES icetime he will be getting as Bobby's partner. I'd suggest you swap partners on the top pairings: Orr - Murphy; Stuart - Hitchman looks better to me. Mohns - Flaman is a mean bottom pairing, and Heller feels almost too good to ride the pine in this. I like that all three of these pairings will basically play the same, with one swift attacking defenseman and one stay at home guy. Larry Murphy is kinda the odd man out of this arrangement, and I do wonder what motivated his selection when better defensive defensemen must have been available when he was taken.
Elmer Lach is an excellent choice to center this line. A heavy task will fall on his shoulders given his wingers and Bobby Orr's swashbuckling style. The second line troika is terrifying, and will be able to simply overwhelm some opposing units. Not really a fan of the 3rd line. All fine players, but it feels pretty lacklustre given the competition at 20 teams. 4th line looks like a good unit. All of these units will be well-served by the defense.
Dick Irvin team: Love Gadsby - Chelios. Goodfellow is a stud #3, and McCrimmon was at his best next to attacking partners throughout his career. Pratt - Green also delivers on the bottom pairing, though they may be defensively vulnerable to some of the better attacking bottom lines. Overall, a contender for best defense in the draft.
Love the top line. Packed with talent, and well-rounded enough not to have obvious holes. These three with Gadsby and Chelios constitute maybe the best 5-man unit in the draft. Less in love with the second line. Naslund is kinda meh on a 2nd line at 20 teams, especially at ES, and Alfredsson is going to get run ragged with all of the water he's going to have to carry for the other two. The third line, I like. Like the top line, it's just a strong combination of talent and balance which will do well all over the ice.
Rene Lecavalier
Cecil Hart team: Cleghorn - Clapper is muy bueno. Like the all-around play here, and I think having a partner like Clapper is a good way to reign in Sprague's berzerker tendencies. Lutchenko - Konstantinov makes me sad, though. Lutchenko is fine in this as an offensive #4/PP specialist next to a good defensive #3, but Vladdy is not that. Ugh. Horner is a good #5, and Hedman is meh.
I think the top line will work. You're asking your center to do a lot of defensive work between those two, but your center is Frank Nighbor, so yeah. It's an excellent unit. Second line...so, Bryan Trottier spent most of his career playing on pretty balanced units because that's how Al Arbour ran his teams. Trotts' left wings could and would usually check, and Mike Bossy was a better backchecker (in the sense that he gave real effort, was not a floater, and was often in good enough position to at least slow a counterattack, which was his job) than he is generally credited with having been, as well. I don't recall Trottier ever playing between two floaters as big as Robitaille and Drillon. He's a great two-way center, but he can't just eat up ice the way Nighbor can. He can only guard one man, and when his wingers are loafing, the line will still be vulnerable. Third line will chip in a few goals, play great defense, and inspire attempted murder everywhere it plays.
Al Arbour team: Potvin - Reardon is a ferocious tandem, and Pronovost - Park (the killer Ps?) on the 2nd pairing is in the running for the single most dominant unit (relative to the competition) in the draft. Both players on both of these pairings were known for being rambunctious and aggressive all over the ice, and they may occasionally leave openings for counterattack, but this blueline will also dish out a ton of damage, score a lot of points, and generally do a good job of controlling the play. 3rd pairing is good, steady, and well-balanced. This is an obviously excellent defense, but the team as a whole looks like it may be slightly vulnerable to swift counterattacks at even strength.
Similar top line to Arbour's most famous real-life unit. Talent level is middling for 20 teams, but it is a well-conceived unit that should play well in all zones. Not sure what Arbour would make of Denis Savard. He was rather not a fan of centers who aren't physical and don't check effectively (see Turgeon, Pierre), and Savard is both of those things. Does Didier Pitre pick up the slack here? Pitre seems to have been a quite well-rounded player, and Arbour was a great coach, so maybe it works? Like the third line as a two-way unit. The 4th line is a pure checking unit, and a good one.
Fred Shero team: Kelly - Stevens is about as good as it gets. Boucher - Gardiner also looks quite strong, and Neilson - Subban is fine for a bottom pairing. Nothing much to say here: this blueline is just good.
Same thing I said about Trottier: Schmidt didn't do the whole defensive thing on his own, and it is a rare center who can hold things down defensively for a line essentially by himself. Neither Schriner nor Lafleur is going to do any checking, so Milt Schmidt will have a lot of long days. In fact, I might think of swapping Elias and Schriner. Third line looks like a well-balanced unit. 4th line is mostly specialists.
This is one of my favorite teams in the draft. I'm not in love with how the scoringlines are arrayed at present, but the talent level is there, the defense is excellent, and both the coach and goalie are good.
Barry Trotz team: the whole damn defense here is just good. All three pairings are well-balanced, strong in terms of talent, and set up to play essentially the same way. There is a continuity of design and execution here that I quite like, and I even like Gary Bergman as the first guy off the bench.
Quite possibly the best line in the draft, and with Clancy - Savard, another candidate for strongest 5 man unit. I find the second line rather less attractive, and don't think it will generate enough offense at even strength to keep it from being below average. Third line is quite interesting. Brindy and Starshinov kinda score in a lot of the same ways (close to the net, rebounds, deflections, etc.), and some of Brindy's defensive value is squandered by putting him on a wing so it's not perfect, but it still looks fine as a two-way unit. 4th line just kinda there.
Mike Babcock team: Bourque - Quackenbush is just an awesome top pairing...up there with Kelly - Stevens and Harvey - Gerard for the best top pairin the draft. Conacher - Wilson is also a strong 2nd pairing. Letang is doing his thing as a PP specialist, and is hopefully protected in that role. Bobby Baun is good as a #5 in this. Excellent defense, overall. This division has some truly scary bluelines.
Top line should be fine. Pretty average looking unit. Second line at ES looks pretty lacklustre. Love the idea of the old Flyers as a third line here, but I'm not sure it wouldn't be wiser to replace Kerr with more of a two-way player in this tournament. I just have a hard time seeing a justification for Kerr there. He should be strictly a 4th line specialist at 20 teams, imo. Meh 4th line.
Foster Hewitt
Toe Blake team: average top pairing in terms of talent that I somehow think will be better than the sum of its parts. Taylor on a 2nd pairing is a real power move, and Mantha is a good partner for him. Pospisil on a 3rd pairing is absurd, and Joe Hall as a #6 is almost as dumb. I don't know what this GM has planned, but I dunno if there are really enough minutes to go around. If I were running this team, I'd probably work up some sort of weird, elaborate minutes plan which had Taylor bouncing around the lineup and the rest of the defensemen getting a minutes load commensurate with their talents. Blake is capable of handling this. He's one of the few coaches with whom you can probably get away with wacky minutes/line rotation plans, and Taylor is maybe the single best player in the draft to implement them.
The Howes are united! Not sure how I feel about Hawerchuk on this line. Is he dynamic enough offensively to make up for the fact that he's not an especially well-rounded center? The 2nd line is really talented. How good was Maltsev defensively? I don't remember there being too much on his defense, and I don't love making Ted Kennedy into Steve Rucchin, but I guess he's probably as good as any scoringline center not named Nighbor, Boucher or Clarke at covering for a line defensively by himself. Would liked a better set of wingers for Petrov. Hay is fine, but Cleghorn leaves me wanting more.
Joel Quenneville team: low-end, but adequate top pairing. Pretty good second pairing. Reasonable bottom pairing. Nothing much exciting about this group besides the possible Siebert/Seibert shenanigans.
So, the scoringlines of this team look like they will employ some kind of LW locking system? With Delvecchio and Noble hanging back...I dunno, but that's how the personnel look to me. Is Quenneville the right coach for a team that will lean heavily on single wings to hold things down defensively for his scoringlines? Lots of talent on these scoringlines...enough to win with a solid defense and Hasek in net...but I'm just not sure about the coaching/defensive scheme. Third line looks good. MacKay is very good on a third line, though the wingers are only ok talent-wise. Sticking a tough guy like Bailey on MacKay's wing was a good move, especially with non-tough-guys on your bottom pairing.
Pat Quinn team: below average but solid top pairing. Weber would be a great fit next to MacInnis if they weren't both right handed. As is, I dunno. Howell is fine, but Boyle may be a liability on a 2nd pairing at only 20 teams. Think he's probably better as a shit-hot 3rd pairing/PP specialist in a draft this small. But you've already got Housley for that role, so mazel tov. Kevin Lowe is a pretty good #5.
Terrific top line. There will be a lot of goals scored when that second unit is on the ice, for better or worse. Very aggressive third line that has a lot of talent, but will be middling defensively in spite of Toews. Sutter party on the bottom line gives me some kinda feelings.
Darryl Sutter team: Lidstrom - Horton is beautiful. Bouchard is hardly my favorite, but he's ok as a #3 in this, and Ross is similarly situated as a #4. Don't love it, but the second pairing ought to hold water. Rafalski is fine as a bottom pairing PP guy (try not to give him too many defensive zone starts), and Grant is pretty good as a #5.
Solid two-way top unit. Not a fan of the second line. I just don't see enough talent there to stack up to other second lines in this draft. The third line, on the other hand, is quite possibly the best in the draft. Bottom line is a bully unit, and Darryl Sutter will squeee with joy every time they take the ice.
Tommy Ivan team: the physicality and mobility of this defense, as a whole, really sticks out. Fetisov - Coulter are only about an average top pairing, but they're a good match and good at everything, so can be deployed with ease. Salming - Crawford is a killer 2nd pairing and good enough to take matchups against opposing top lines, if needs be. Beck - Goldham is a strong 3rd pairing, as well. This defense will grind small teams into dust, and can skate with the best of them. Strong fit with the coach (especially Goldham, I suppose).
Love the top line...they would be horrible to play against. I'm into the second line, as well. Pairing Stewart with Sid Abel seems like a match made in heaven, and Fleury adds a nice element to the unit offensively. This unit be fine on the cycle with Abel going low in his own zone, but it will definitely struggle a bit to defend in transition, and you just have to accept and try to plan around that. Third line is just a menace. 4th line is weird.
This team is really a bear...about as good as it gets in terms of winning with goon hockey in the ATD. This team will grind soft units into the dust, and has enough talent to win it all.
Jim Robson
Hap Day team: Mean top pairing. I don't love Hatcher, but Doughty still makes the second pairing nasty. I have probably underrated Simpson in the past, though I still think he's only an average #5 in a draft of this size. Bottom pairing is fine.
Fine top line... not high-end in terms of talent, but should perform well in all areas of the ice. Second line is a very fast two-way unit that will counterattack, and probably play dump and chase a lot when they can't break cleanly into the zone/don't have an odd-man rush. This is the kind of unit which will shred opposing lines that can't defend the counterattack (like, say, the Nels Stewart line), and it will be great defensively (except against elite LWs?), but it's scoring potential is pretty low for a second line. Third line is a strong, physical two-way unit. Botton line are specialists.
Another team with a good shot at the cup, I think. That defense, backed by Plante, with balanced lines that are strong down the middle and a defensive coach will be a really tough nut to crack. Will the offense win them enough of those 1-0, 2-1 games to go all the way?
Jaroslav Pitner team: Second pairing is a beast, and should probably be deployed against top lines defensively, where it is adequate. This makes the top pairing the 1b pairing at even strength (which is fine...the even-strength talent is almost evenly split), theoretically going against units other than the top line when Pitner can manage it (shame that this team didn't nab maybe a better coach). Lapointe - Patrick are wonderful in this role. I like the third pairing, as well, though it isn't special.
Smallish, but very determined top line. I like it. Second line makes sense, I guess, but I question the quality of the wings skating with Bobby Clarke here. Third line is a f***ing beast. What is going on with that 4th line? Lots of talent, but what the hell?
Glen Sather team: vulnerable top pairing. Chara can be beaten with speed, and I dunno if Suchy is good enough to cover for him given his aggressive nature and the talent level of 1st lines in this. Second and third pairings are strong, though I'm not sure how much offense the 3rd pairing will generate.
Top line is the ultimate YOLO unit. Goals will be scored. Second line I like a lot. Third line is interesting...thought it looked pretty strange at first, but I get it. It will be injured constantly, though. Dig the 4th line.
Pat Burns team: meh top pairing, but Langway makes the 2nd pairing strong. Third pairing I think will be awful. Hollett is a sieve and Foote has long been overrated.
Top line will do fine offensively...pretty meh defensively. Second line is not good. Third line is beautiful! Ok...Doan is maybe not ideal there, and I'd like at least one good shooter on the unit, but still. It's a weird unit, but I kinda love it. 4th line is kinda there.
Lester Patrick team: Stewart is a good match with Coffey, though they're a bit below average in terms of talent for a top pairing. I remember how Coffey played defense when the chips were down; he was better than is commonly known. He's been the whipping boy of the ATD for a long time, but at 20 teams where there is more talent to pair with Coffey, I think he could actually be quite useful. Johnson - Desjardins is nondescript and adequate as a 2nd pairing. Third pairing is pretty good.
I think you need to swap the LWs on your scoringlines here. Perreault and Hull should not play together. Both were guys who loved to carry the puck up ice, and there are questions about Perreault's skill as a backhanded passer (meaning to his LW most of the time). Zetterberg, on the other hand, is a great LW for Perreault, and Richard is a great center for Hull, so make the switch. Third line is interesting. I guess I like it. Also, Peter Bondra on a 2nd unit PK here...is this a good idea? You've got plenty of other guys who can kill penalties if you don't use Bondra, though (Zetterberg and the Soviets, at least).
Tommy Gorman team: I don't like the top pairing here. Robinson was not a stay-at-home defenseman by any means, and Karlsson needs one as a partner, especially on a top pairing. I might just bite the bullet, and swap the units around: Robinson - Pulford; Brewer - Vasko; Stanley - Karlsson looks like the best balanced set of units available to you, and spreading around the ES icetime isn't a bad idea with this group of players. Also, get Allan Stanley on that 2nd PK unit in favor of Vasko. Kinda shocked you have Pulford on the 2nd unit PP, as well. There must be a better option open to you somewhere. Has St. Louis played the point in his NHL career? You're not even using him on the power play, at all, at the moment. Henrik Sedin is similarly sitting on the shelf. tl;dr - I like this group of defensemen, but think there are probably better ways to deploy them.
Excellent top line that can do anything. The team has what it takes to run a heavy forechecking scheme in the Gorman style. Second line has attractive parts, but what happens is somebody decides to shadow Dye? I don't love the third line. It's defensively suspect at the most important defensive position (center), and offensively suspect on the wings. Not sure it will be good enough at anything to justify existing as constituted. Seems like Henrik will end up making a lot of passes to nowhere. Might swap in Bernie Morris for Gare at that RW spot.
Anatoly Tarasov team: Lots to love about Pronger - Howe. Kasatonov is a strong #3, while Mortson looks more like a pretty good #5 in this, so that kinda balances it out. Stapleton - Day is a great bottom pairing. Not using Pat Stapleton on the power play feels a bit strange...are we sure that both Howe and Kasatonov were actually better than Stapleton as point men? Also...two different powerplay formations is a bold move, though you've certainly got strong skaters for the job.
Great as Mario is, Dumart - Neely feels a little lighter on talent than I think is ideal for Lemieux's wings. That said, they do everything else you need in Mario's wings extremely well. Second line is nasty. I like flanking Dionne with the savage Lindsay, and the cool-headed Middleton. Seems like an ideal situation for him to succeed. Nick Backstrom as a two-way right wing, eh? How much time has he spent on the wing in his career? One question to answer about this tremendously talented 3rd line. Second question: is it too soft? Does Foyston bring enough grit to make up for the other two? Lotta pop in the unit, though.
Don't understand the 2nd PK unit, at all. What is Mike Richards doing in there, if he's not even starting? Seems like a good spot for Woody Dumart, who could play both sides as a defensive wing.
Punch Imlach team: Jacques Laperriere is an excellent partner for Eddie Shore, and I like Johnson - Thomson a lot, as well. Gonchar is in his correct role at 20 teams as a 3rd pairing PP specialist, where he is strong. Harper is a little weaker a partner than I'd have liked for Sergei (and 3rd pairings are really going to matter in this draft with all the bottom line offensive talent out there at 20 teams), but overall this defense is well-constructed, and well-balanced between the surliness of Shore/Thomson and the implacable efficiency of Laperriere/Johnson. I think Punch would be into it.
First line will have defensive issues. I don't view Cook or Denneny as defensive negatives, but they're not known for their checking either, and Apps is known for not being especially conscientious in his own end. Also, the impression I get of Apps is that he was at his best carrying the puck, himself, and liked to get in close before passing. The wingers here can certainly adapt, but I wonder if Apps is a perfect fit for their styles. I'd swap Perry and Cook. This puts a letter on each line, makes the 2nd line a real threat (as constituted, it looks a little meh). Third line is nails; don't get the 4th line.
Scotty Bowman team: I know pairing Bobby Orr with a pure stay-at-home guy seems like a great idea, but on talent, Hitchman is a low-end 2nd pairing guy at 20 teams, and probably shouldn't be eating up the ES icetime he will be getting as Bobby's partner. I'd suggest you swap partners on the top pairings: Orr - Murphy; Stuart - Hitchman looks better to me. Mohns - Flaman is a mean bottom pairing, and Heller feels almost too good to ride the pine in this. I like that all three of these pairings will basically play the same, with one swift attacking defenseman and one stay at home guy. Larry Murphy is kinda the odd man out of this arrangement, and I do wonder what motivated his selection when better defensive defensemen must have been available when he was taken.
Elmer Lach is an excellent choice to center this line. A heavy task will fall on his shoulders given his wingers and Bobby Orr's swashbuckling style. The second line troika is terrifying, and will be able to simply overwhelm some opposing units. Not really a fan of the 3rd line. All fine players, but it feels pretty lacklustre given the competition at 20 teams. 4th line looks like a good unit. All of these units will be well-served by the defense.
Dick Irvin team: Love Gadsby - Chelios. Goodfellow is a stud #3, and McCrimmon was at his best next to attacking partners throughout his career. Pratt - Green also delivers on the bottom pairing, though they may be defensively vulnerable to some of the better attacking bottom lines. Overall, a contender for best defense in the draft.
Love the top line. Packed with talent, and well-rounded enough not to have obvious holes. These three with Gadsby and Chelios constitute maybe the best 5-man unit in the draft. Less in love with the second line. Naslund is kinda meh on a 2nd line at 20 teams, especially at ES, and Alfredsson is going to get run ragged with all of the water he's going to have to carry for the other two. The third line, I like. Like the top line, it's just a strong combination of talent and balance which will do well all over the ice.
Rene Lecavalier
Cecil Hart team: Cleghorn - Clapper is muy bueno. Like the all-around play here, and I think having a partner like Clapper is a good way to reign in Sprague's berzerker tendencies. Lutchenko - Konstantinov makes me sad, though. Lutchenko is fine in this as an offensive #4/PP specialist next to a good defensive #3, but Vladdy is not that. Ugh. Horner is a good #5, and Hedman is meh.
I think the top line will work. You're asking your center to do a lot of defensive work between those two, but your center is Frank Nighbor, so yeah. It's an excellent unit. Second line...so, Bryan Trottier spent most of his career playing on pretty balanced units because that's how Al Arbour ran his teams. Trotts' left wings could and would usually check, and Mike Bossy was a better backchecker (in the sense that he gave real effort, was not a floater, and was often in good enough position to at least slow a counterattack, which was his job) than he is generally credited with having been, as well. I don't recall Trottier ever playing between two floaters as big as Robitaille and Drillon. He's a great two-way center, but he can't just eat up ice the way Nighbor can. He can only guard one man, and when his wingers are loafing, the line will still be vulnerable. Third line will chip in a few goals, play great defense, and inspire attempted murder everywhere it plays.
Al Arbour team: Potvin - Reardon is a ferocious tandem, and Pronovost - Park (the killer Ps?) on the 2nd pairing is in the running for the single most dominant unit (relative to the competition) in the draft. Both players on both of these pairings were known for being rambunctious and aggressive all over the ice, and they may occasionally leave openings for counterattack, but this blueline will also dish out a ton of damage, score a lot of points, and generally do a good job of controlling the play. 3rd pairing is good, steady, and well-balanced. This is an obviously excellent defense, but the team as a whole looks like it may be slightly vulnerable to swift counterattacks at even strength.
Similar top line to Arbour's most famous real-life unit. Talent level is middling for 20 teams, but it is a well-conceived unit that should play well in all zones. Not sure what Arbour would make of Denis Savard. He was rather not a fan of centers who aren't physical and don't check effectively (see Turgeon, Pierre), and Savard is both of those things. Does Didier Pitre pick up the slack here? Pitre seems to have been a quite well-rounded player, and Arbour was a great coach, so maybe it works? Like the third line as a two-way unit. The 4th line is a pure checking unit, and a good one.
Fred Shero team: Kelly - Stevens is about as good as it gets. Boucher - Gardiner also looks quite strong, and Neilson - Subban is fine for a bottom pairing. Nothing much to say here: this blueline is just good.
Same thing I said about Trottier: Schmidt didn't do the whole defensive thing on his own, and it is a rare center who can hold things down defensively for a line essentially by himself. Neither Schriner nor Lafleur is going to do any checking, so Milt Schmidt will have a lot of long days. In fact, I might think of swapping Elias and Schriner. Third line looks like a well-balanced unit. 4th line is mostly specialists.
This is one of my favorite teams in the draft. I'm not in love with how the scoringlines are arrayed at present, but the talent level is there, the defense is excellent, and both the coach and goalie are good.
Barry Trotz team: the whole damn defense here is just good. All three pairings are well-balanced, strong in terms of talent, and set up to play essentially the same way. There is a continuity of design and execution here that I quite like, and I even like Gary Bergman as the first guy off the bench.
Quite possibly the best line in the draft, and with Clancy - Savard, another candidate for strongest 5 man unit. I find the second line rather less attractive, and don't think it will generate enough offense at even strength to keep it from being below average. Third line is quite interesting. Brindy and Starshinov kinda score in a lot of the same ways (close to the net, rebounds, deflections, etc.), and some of Brindy's defensive value is squandered by putting him on a wing so it's not perfect, but it still looks fine as a two-way unit. 4th line just kinda there.
Mike Babcock team: Bourque - Quackenbush is just an awesome top pairing...up there with Kelly - Stevens and Harvey - Gerard for the best top pairin the draft. Conacher - Wilson is also a strong 2nd pairing. Letang is doing his thing as a PP specialist, and is hopefully protected in that role. Bobby Baun is good as a #5 in this. Excellent defense, overall. This division has some truly scary bluelines.
Top line should be fine. Pretty average looking unit. Second line at ES looks pretty lacklustre. Love the idea of the old Flyers as a third line here, but I'm not sure it wouldn't be wiser to replace Kerr with more of a two-way player in this tournament. I just have a hard time seeing a justification for Kerr there. He should be strictly a 4th line specialist at 20 teams, imo. Meh 4th line.
Foster Hewitt
Toe Blake team: average top pairing in terms of talent that I somehow think will be better than the sum of its parts. Taylor on a 2nd pairing is a real power move, and Mantha is a good partner for him. Pospisil on a 3rd pairing is absurd, and Joe Hall as a #6 is almost as dumb. I don't know what this GM has planned, but I dunno if there are really enough minutes to go around. If I were running this team, I'd probably work up some sort of weird, elaborate minutes plan which had Taylor bouncing around the lineup and the rest of the defensemen getting a minutes load commensurate with their talents. Blake is capable of handling this. He's one of the few coaches with whom you can probably get away with wacky minutes/line rotation plans, and Taylor is maybe the single best player in the draft to implement them.
The Howes are united! Not sure how I feel about Hawerchuk on this line. Is he dynamic enough offensively to make up for the fact that he's not an especially well-rounded center? The 2nd line is really talented. How good was Maltsev defensively? I don't remember there being too much on his defense, and I don't love making Ted Kennedy into Steve Rucchin, but I guess he's probably as good as any scoringline center not named Nighbor, Boucher or Clarke at covering for a line defensively by himself. Would liked a better set of wingers for Petrov. Hay is fine, but Cleghorn leaves me wanting more.
Joel Quenneville team: low-end, but adequate top pairing. Pretty good second pairing. Reasonable bottom pairing. Nothing much exciting about this group besides the possible Siebert/Seibert shenanigans.
So, the scoringlines of this team look like they will employ some kind of LW locking system? With Delvecchio and Noble hanging back...I dunno, but that's how the personnel look to me. Is Quenneville the right coach for a team that will lean heavily on single wings to hold things down defensively for his scoringlines? Lots of talent on these scoringlines...enough to win with a solid defense and Hasek in net...but I'm just not sure about the coaching/defensive scheme. Third line looks good. MacKay is very good on a third line, though the wingers are only ok talent-wise. Sticking a tough guy like Bailey on MacKay's wing was a good move, especially with non-tough-guys on your bottom pairing.
Pat Quinn team: below average but solid top pairing. Weber would be a great fit next to MacInnis if they weren't both right handed. As is, I dunno. Howell is fine, but Boyle may be a liability on a 2nd pairing at only 20 teams. Think he's probably better as a shit-hot 3rd pairing/PP specialist in a draft this small. But you've already got Housley for that role, so mazel tov. Kevin Lowe is a pretty good #5.
Terrific top line. There will be a lot of goals scored when that second unit is on the ice, for better or worse. Very aggressive third line that has a lot of talent, but will be middling defensively in spite of Toews. Sutter party on the bottom line gives me some kinda feelings.
Darryl Sutter team: Lidstrom - Horton is beautiful. Bouchard is hardly my favorite, but he's ok as a #3 in this, and Ross is similarly situated as a #4. Don't love it, but the second pairing ought to hold water. Rafalski is fine as a bottom pairing PP guy (try not to give him too many defensive zone starts), and Grant is pretty good as a #5.
Solid two-way top unit. Not a fan of the second line. I just don't see enough talent there to stack up to other second lines in this draft. The third line, on the other hand, is quite possibly the best in the draft. Bottom line is a bully unit, and Darryl Sutter will squeee with joy every time they take the ice.
Tommy Ivan team: the physicality and mobility of this defense, as a whole, really sticks out. Fetisov - Coulter are only about an average top pairing, but they're a good match and good at everything, so can be deployed with ease. Salming - Crawford is a killer 2nd pairing and good enough to take matchups against opposing top lines, if needs be. Beck - Goldham is a strong 3rd pairing, as well. This defense will grind small teams into dust, and can skate with the best of them. Strong fit with the coach (especially Goldham, I suppose).
Love the top line...they would be horrible to play against. I'm into the second line, as well. Pairing Stewart with Sid Abel seems like a match made in heaven, and Fleury adds a nice element to the unit offensively. This unit be fine on the cycle with Abel going low in his own zone, but it will definitely struggle a bit to defend in transition, and you just have to accept and try to plan around that. Third line is just a menace. 4th line is weird.
This team is really a bear...about as good as it gets in terms of winning with goon hockey in the ATD. This team will grind soft units into the dust, and has enough talent to win it all.
Jim Robson
Hap Day team: Mean top pairing. I don't love Hatcher, but Doughty still makes the second pairing nasty. I have probably underrated Simpson in the past, though I still think he's only an average #5 in a draft of this size. Bottom pairing is fine.
Fine top line... not high-end in terms of talent, but should perform well in all areas of the ice. Second line is a very fast two-way unit that will counterattack, and probably play dump and chase a lot when they can't break cleanly into the zone/don't have an odd-man rush. This is the kind of unit which will shred opposing lines that can't defend the counterattack (like, say, the Nels Stewart line), and it will be great defensively (except against elite LWs?), but it's scoring potential is pretty low for a second line. Third line is a strong, physical two-way unit. Botton line are specialists.
Another team with a good shot at the cup, I think. That defense, backed by Plante, with balanced lines that are strong down the middle and a defensive coach will be a really tough nut to crack. Will the offense win them enough of those 1-0, 2-1 games to go all the way?
Jaroslav Pitner team: Second pairing is a beast, and should probably be deployed against top lines defensively, where it is adequate. This makes the top pairing the 1b pairing at even strength (which is fine...the even-strength talent is almost evenly split), theoretically going against units other than the top line when Pitner can manage it (shame that this team didn't nab maybe a better coach). Lapointe - Patrick are wonderful in this role. I like the third pairing, as well, though it isn't special.
Smallish, but very determined top line. I like it. Second line makes sense, I guess, but I question the quality of the wings skating with Bobby Clarke here. Third line is a f***ing beast. What is going on with that 4th line? Lots of talent, but what the hell?
Glen Sather team: vulnerable top pairing. Chara can be beaten with speed, and I dunno if Suchy is good enough to cover for him given his aggressive nature and the talent level of 1st lines in this. Second and third pairings are strong, though I'm not sure how much offense the 3rd pairing will generate.
Top line is the ultimate YOLO unit. Goals will be scored. Second line I like a lot. Third line is interesting...thought it looked pretty strange at first, but I get it. It will be injured constantly, though. Dig the 4th line.
Pat Burns team: meh top pairing, but Langway makes the 2nd pairing strong. Third pairing I think will be awful. Hollett is a sieve and Foote has long been overrated.
Top line will do fine offensively...pretty meh defensively. Second line is not good. Third line is beautiful! Ok...Doan is maybe not ideal there, and I'd like at least one good shooter on the unit, but still. It's a weird unit, but I kinda love it. 4th line is kinda there.
Lester Patrick team: Stewart is a good match with Coffey, though they're a bit below average in terms of talent for a top pairing. I remember how Coffey played defense when the chips were down; he was better than is commonly known. He's been the whipping boy of the ATD for a long time, but at 20 teams where there is more talent to pair with Coffey, I think he could actually be quite useful. Johnson - Desjardins is nondescript and adequate as a 2nd pairing. Third pairing is pretty good.
I think you need to swap the LWs on your scoringlines here. Perreault and Hull should not play together. Both were guys who loved to carry the puck up ice, and there are questions about Perreault's skill as a backhanded passer (meaning to his LW most of the time). Zetterberg, on the other hand, is a great LW for Perreault, and Richard is a great center for Hull, so make the switch. Third line is interesting. I guess I like it. Also, Peter Bondra on a 2nd unit PK here...is this a good idea? You've got plenty of other guys who can kill penalties if you don't use Bondra, though (Zetterberg and the Soviets, at least).
BenchBrawl
Registered User
- Jul 26, 2010
- 30,885
- 13,680
First, thanks for doing all of this.
Some comments on my team:
Hap Day
Yakushev-Boucher-Iginla
Northcott-Modano-Hossa
Benn-Fredrickson-Taylor
Marcotte-Mosdell-Rousseau
Harvey-Gerard
Hatcher-Doughty
Rowe-Simpson
Plante
A word on my coach-team synergy: As far as I know, Hap Day loved to distribute both the offense and defense throughout his lines, and I feel I have succeeded in that regard.My worst defensive forwards are Yakushev, Iginla and Benn; the floor is pretty high.My defense can also move the puck on all pairings, with I think Day liked.Arguably not a single player on my team sucks defensively, with Yakushev the only question mark.
About my 1st line: Like we did in 2013, I wanted to reunite Boucher with the closest thing to Bill Cook as possible.As my pick was coming close, Mikhailov got taken just before my turn and if I had lost Iginla I would have been screwed.Only Hextall Sr. was left that was more or less similar to Bill Cook.I think Boucher-Iginla is as close as was possible without picking Cook himself or Mikhailov.
Should be said Benn is my 2nd best LW ahead of Northcott, and that he is better now that he was in 2017 when I had him with Fredrickson.So I agree my 2nd line is not strong offensively, but like you said it is great defensively and on the counter attack.My 3rd line is like the Benn-Fredrickson-Amonte line from 2017 on steroid.Taylor is better than Amonte, is also a good skater and has more size, and Benn is boosted.
Bottom line are not strict specialists: I feel Mosdell and Rousseau can hold their own at ES, providing both a bit of offense and solid defense.Marcotte is more of a specialist but can still be used as a physical player and checker there.
General comment on my defense: Each of my Top 4 defensemen were arguably the best of their generation defensively, except Hatcher who was behind Stevens and Lidstrom but arguably #3 defensively.Harvey, Gerard and Doughty each have a strong case as #1.So yeah my blueline is build around a Big Three with a bias for defense but good pace-control of the game and transition.All were great playoff performers.
Doughty is now a solid #3, if not a #2 defenseman.His season last year bumped him up for sure.You don't like Hatcher, and never did, and we always had a different opinion on this guy.OTOH, those gentlemen are in my division: Esposito, Mikhailov, Nedomansky, Lindros, Tkachuk, Messier... etc.Hatcher is certainly useful against that lineup as an elite crease-clearer.Also makes my 1st PK a beauty, especially with Plante.
Not sure if Simpson is average or not as a #5.Seems hard to evaluate.In any case, my #6 and spares are Rowe, Harmon and Harris, which I feel is one of the best depth in the league.Montreal is obviously build from the defense and net.
Finally, I agree that Montreal is trying to win a lot of 1-0 and 2-1 games.I feel I managed to build a strong defense-first team, which is not an easy thing to do, but I had to do it once I started my team with Harvey and Plante, the latter being a pick I didn't want to make, but had to, given what was out there.
Thanks for the review.
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@Sturminator, thanks so much for taking the time to analyze our lineups. Much appreciated.
I was very proud with the defense I built this year. Defense was the knock on my team last year as a rookie, so I made it a point to really work on building a solid defense core this year, one of the better ones in the draft was my goal. I feel like I definitely succeeded and I hope the voters will feel the same way.
Also very happy with my top line, and overall offensive group even if that 2nd line might not be ideal. I explained to BB that many of my LW targets were scooped up before I had the chance to take them, so I sort of had to settle for Naslund there. Still, he had a strong offensive peak and I was looking to pair another offensive winger with Malkin (playmaking, offense) and Alfie (two-way). So I feel he’ll do okay there even if he’s not an ideal top 6 winger in a 20 team draft.
I also like that 3rd line, so I’m glad to hear you like it as well. Herbie Lewis was a guy I targeted before the draft as a potential bottom sixer, and Sittler was a guy I had to take at the spot he was available when I had the chance. He’s a guy that it appears is great value year after year in terms of where he gets drafted. Add Bob Nevin and it’s a sort of do-it-all 3rd line.
I also feel with Luce, Nesterenko and Nevin I’ll have one of the better PK forward groups in the draft as well.
Thanks again.
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