ATD Chat Thread XVII

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Professor What

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This is a couple of days old, but this is a real mood

I have such ambitious ideas that I always start for this board and if I can't complete them in really one sitting I always fall behind before abandoning them.

I don't know if you're familiar with NaNoWriMo (it stands for national write a novel month), but I've tried that a couple of times, and it didn't end well for me. The idea of it is to write a 50,000 word novel in 30 days, with the idea that you've done your preparation in the months leading up to it and that month is your writing month. That might seem like a lot -- it's a little less than 1,700 words per day -- but, if I'm in a good writing mode, it's nothing for me to churn out 3,000-4,000 words in a day. The problem for me in that setting is that, if I miss a day or two because I'm just not feeling it and can't force myself to do it (and forcing it invariably leads to my producing lesser quality), I start focusing on the average words per day going up, and that just deflates me. Personally, I just have to do things like that as they flow. It might mean it gets put aside for a while before I come back to it, but if I give myself a deadline, I always seem to crack and fail.
 
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BenchBrawl

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If you're forcing yourself to write, you're cheating your readers.

Very few have a constant creative energy day in day out. It comes in bursts, related to your emotional state.

IMO, our subconscious is the key to all creative endeavors. If it doesn't want to output what your conscious mind wants, it won't, and he'll tell you by way of deep inertia. That's probably for the best, as any creative piece created without the magic touch of the subconscious intelligence, is worthless and dry.
 
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Professor What

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If you're forcing yourself to write, you're cheating your readers.

Very few have a constant creative energy day in day out. It comes in bursts, related to your emotional state.

IMO, our subconscious is the key to all creative endeavors. If it doesn't want to output what your conscious mind wants, it won't, and he'll tell you by way of deep inertia.

Yep. You cheat yourself when you do it too. The fact that you're forcing it means that you're not really enjoying it when you do it, and later, when you read what you wrote and it has to either be scrapped or has to be heavily overhauled to even be passable, that's rather deflating. I enjoy writing, and taking the fun out of it by doing something like that is brutal. It's much better psychologically to put it aside for a while than to ruin something you love. I've worked on stuff in the past where I couldn't get out more than a few hundred words a day because it was so emotional for me. But I'd do what I could with it and then stop. Had I forced it, I would have had total garbage, but letting it flow ended up with it being some of the stronger stuff I felt I'd written.
 
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BenchBrawl

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The very act of counting how many words you wrote seems like a defeating strategy to me. I'm a terrible writer, technically speaking, but when I write I have a strong wind pushing the words out out of my fingertips so they just flow out of me. I'm sure a potential reader would at least detect that subconsciously, and maybe connect to it, if he has the same emotional imbalance wanting to be resolved. If nothing else, he wouldn't feel cheated.

I rarely write because of this though. I need that wind and it doesn't appear on demand.
 
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Professor What

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The very act of counting how many words you wrote seems like a defeating strategy to me. I'm a terrible writer, technically speaking, but when I write I have a strong wind pushing the words out out of my fingertips so they just flow out of me. I'm sure a potential reader would at least detect that subconsciously, and maybe connect to it, if he has the same emotional imbalance wanting to be resolved. If nothing else, he wouldn't feel cheated.

I rarely write because of this though. I need that wind and it doesn't appear on demand.

Well, Microsoft Word keeps a word count, so I always have it either way. Being a very mathematical minded person, I can't not be aware of it. I don't force myself to certain word counts, but depending on what I'm writing and the target audience, I do find them to be a useful tool. If I finish writing a chapter and it goes past a certain word count, that might be a sign that I either need to trim some fat or split it into two chapters. If I finish it and it's below a certain word count, it may be that I rushed things too much and adding some more details would be good. It's also entirely possible that I look at it and decide that I'm pretty satisfied with it as it is and that chapter just happens to be a bit longer or shorter, and that is what it is.

But as for the part about the connection with the reader, I agree. If I write a character and I don't care about them, I don't expect my readers to care. If I hate my villain, that's good, because it means my readers likely will. If I feel sympathy for a character who's being put through the wringer, my readers likely will too. If there's no emotion from me, they're too flat. That's actually one advantage of being "neurodiverse." A lot of emotions are amplified, even if they don't function like they do with most people. Tapping into that is very useful creatively.
 
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BenchBrawl

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Well, Microsoft Word keeps a word count, so I always have it either way. Being a very mathematical minded person, I can't not be aware of it. I don't force myself to certain word counts, but depending on what I'm writing and the target audience, I do find them to be a useful tool. If I finish writing a chapter and it goes past a certain word count, that might be a sign that I either need to trim some fat or split it into two chapters. If I finish it and it's below a certain word count, it may be that I rushed things too much and adding some more details would be good. It's also entirely possible that I look at it and decide that I'm pretty satisfied with it as it is and that chapter just happens to be a bit longer or shorter, and that is what it is.

But as for the part about the connection with the reader, I agree. If I write a character and I don't care about them, I don't expect my readers to care. If I hate my villain, that's good, because it means my readers likely will. If I feel sympathy for a character who's being put through the wringer, my readers likely will too. If there's no emotion from me, they're too flat. That's actually one advantage of being "neurodiverse." A lot of emotions are amplified, even if they don't function like they do with most people. Tapping into that is very useful creatively.

I understand, I see the word count too, and am mathematically minded as well, but you seem to give it a lot of importance, which is why I commented on it.

If you hate your villain, that sounds like a good sign, I agree. I have no experience writing stories and novels though, so I can't know for sure.

If you don't mind me asking, what age range are you in? Also, what do you mean by "neurodiverse"? Obviously feel free not to respond, or to do it in private.
 
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Professor What

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I understand, obviously I too see the word count, and am mathematical minded person as well, but you seem to give it a lot of importance, which is why I commented on it.

If you don't mind me asking, what age range are you in? Also, what do you mean by "neurodiverse"?

I'm in my 30s, and the term neurodiverse is used to describe people with autism, Asperger's, and other spectrum disorders. Here's the link to the Wikipedia article: Neurodiversity - Wikipedia. That will do a much better job of describing it than I can. Personally, I have difficulty in most social situations, often have difficulty reading people's emotions, and have a tendency to get hung up on odd details. That has a lot to do with my tendency to overthink things, and it drives things like using word count the way I do. It's not a be all, end all for me, but I know I use it more than most people would. Also, like many other people on the spectrum, I tend to get very obsessive over certain interests. That last fact has a lot to do with my presence here, as hockey history is one of those interests for me.
 

BenchBrawl

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I'm in my 30s, and the term neurodiverse is used to describe people with autism, Asperger's, and other spectrum disorders. Here's the link to the Wikipedia article: Neurodiversity - Wikipedia. That will do a much better job of describing it than I can. Personally, I have difficulty in most social situations, often have difficulty reading people's emotions, and have a tendency to get hung up on odd details. That has a lot to do with my tendency to overthink things, and it drives things like using word count the way I do. It's not a be all, end all for me, but I know I use it more than most people would. Also, like many other people on the spectrum, I tend to get very obsessive over certain interests. That last fact has a lot to do with my presence here, as hockey history is one of those interests for me.

OK, I just wanted to be sure what you meant. I'm know what Asperger syndrome is. I long suspected I was a mild case of it, but I guess I'll never know.

I can understand having obsessive interests, which is the story of my life from a very early age. I guess Asperger men just find their riches within their inner life, which makes it difficult to share a deep bond with someone else, who doesn't have access to the world in which those riches live.

Do you have synaesthesia? People with Asperger are more likely to have it I believe. I have very strong musical synaesthesia, as well as a weaker case of grapheme-color synaesthesia, which I use when I build my roster in the ATD, with the scintillating telling me how to put it together or which player to choose.
 

VanIslander

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I dunno.

To be able to get out of your skin (the transcendent perspective), in other words, to see yourself in the position of the other, is the mirror of empathy. There's a difference between those who refuse to enact it sometimes (jerks) and those who continually don't (some kind of developmental problem?).

And - related often though seemingly distinctly apart - executive decision making (frontal lobe) is involved, though drugs (even medication) and alcohol can f that part up!
 

Professor What

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OK, I just wanted to be sure what you meant. I'm know what Asperger syndrome is. I long suspected I was a mild case of it, but I guess I'll never know.

I can understand having obsessive interests, which is the story of my life from a very early age. I guess Asperger men just find their riches within their inner life, which makes it difficult to share a deep bond with someone else, who doesn't have access to the world in which those riches live.

Do you have synaesthesia? People with Asperger are more likely to have it I believe. I have very strong musical synaesthesia, as well as a weaker case of grapheme-color synaesthesia, which I use when I build my roster in the ATD, with the scintillating telling me how to put it together or which player to choose.

I've never thought about it, but I might have a mild case of it. I've played chess on and off over the years (on because I enjoy the game, off because it frustrates me), and for some reason, I'd associate colors with certain openings. The Sicilian Defense was blue, the Caro-Kann was green, the King's Indian was orange, etc. Now that you bring that up, it makes a lot of sense. I'm going to have to start paying attention to that to see if I notice other areas that I might be doing that subconsciously. I'm still piecing a lot of things together because I only began to suspect Asperger's a couple of years ago.

I dunno.

To be able to get out of your skin (the transcendent perspective), in other words, to see yourself in the position of the other, is the mirror of empathy. There's a difference between those who refuse to enact it sometimes (jerks) and those who continually don't (some kind of developmental problem?).

A lack of ability to empathize is often associated with spectrum disorders, though it doesn't mean that the person doesn't care, as is sometimes suggested. I think about things so differently that it's hard for me to put myself in the shoes of others, even those I care about. Therefore, I'm not as likely to understand how something strikes them or why they feel the way they do about something. That's pretty closely tied in with the inability to read emotions. One thing I have a bad tendency to do is to start talking about something that interests me and go on too long about it. Usually, the other person doesn't want to be rude, so they'll let it go on for a while, and I will have bored them long before it dawns on me that I did. I get so lost in my excitement over a topic that it blinds me to any cues. Imagine me telling someone about the sorts of things we talk about on this forum as though I were talking about it on this forum. Fifteen minutes later, I might realize that their eyes are glazing over, but in reality, I know that I lost them long before that.
 
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BenchBrawl

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I've never thought about it, but I might have a mild case of it. I've played chess on and off over the years (on because I enjoy the game, off because it frustrates me), and for some reason, I'd associate colors with certain openings. The Sicilian Defense was blue, the Caro-Kann was green, the King's Indian was orange, etc. Now that you bring that up, it makes a lot of sense. I'm going to have to start paying attention to that to see if I notice other areas that I might be doing that subconsciously. I'm still piecing a lot of things together because I only began to suspect Asperger's a couple of years ago.



A lack of ability to empathize is often associated with spectrum disorders, though it doesn't mean that the person doesn't care, as is sometimes suggested. I think about things so differently that it's hard for me to put myself in the shoes of others, even those I care about. Therefore, I'm not as likely to understand how something strikes them or why they feel the way they do about something. That's pretty closely tied in with the inability to read emotions. One thing I have a bad tendency to do is to start talking about something that interests me and go on too long about it. Usually, the other person doesn't want to be rude, so they'll let it go on for a while, and I will have bored them long before it dawns on me that I did. I get so lost in my excitement over a topic that it blinds me to any cues. Imagine me telling someone about the sorts of things we talk about on this forum as though I were talking about it on this forum. Fifteen minutes later, I might realize that their eyes are glazing over, but in reality, I know that I lost them long before that.

Sounds like you have it to some extent for sure.

For me, every song has its palette of colors, as well as dynamic geometrical objects moving a certain way; every song is its own visual world, constant through time too, even years apart. But also, in the ATD, some players have colors in their scintillating aura.
 

tinyzombies

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Dec 24, 2002
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I don't know if you're familiar with NaNoWriMo (it stands for national write a novel month), but I've tried that a couple of times, and it didn't end well for me. The idea of it is to write a 50,000 word novel in 30 days, with the idea that you've done your preparation in the months leading up to it and that month is your writing month. That might seem like a lot -- it's a little less than 1,700 words per day -- but, if I'm in a good writing mode, it's nothing for me to churn out 3,000-4,000 words in a day. The problem for me in that setting is that, if I miss a day or two because I'm just not feeling it and can't force myself to do it (and forcing it invariably leads to my producing lesser quality), I start focusing on the average words per day going up, and that just deflates me. Personally, I just have to do things like that as they flow. It might mean it gets put aside for a while before I come back to it, but if I give myself a deadline, I always seem to crack and fail.


Is it followed by NaNoEdMo?
 

Johnny Engine

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Regarding the previous conversation...

I experience vivid colour-grapheme synethesia that's very similar to what Bench Brawl describes, and numerical-spatial as well (5-9 are steeper than 0-4, meaning the last Habs dynasty took place on a slope while the Islanders dynasty did not. If that makes no sense to you at all, then you probably do not experience synesthesia of any kind). To my knowledge, I'm not anywhere on the autism spectrum and almost nothing about my life suggests to me that I should get tested for it. But there's a particular conversation I had many years ago that I keep coming back to that makes me think a lot about the nature of spectrum disorders.

One of my best friends, we'll call him Jim, is 7 years older than me and produced an album for my band when he was 24 and I was 17. He let slip at one point that someone he knew had heard he was working on the album with me and said "Johnny Engine, doesn't he have autism?" Weird thing to let slip, completely insensitive thing to just bring up to Jim (with the implication that maybe I'm someone to be avoided? I dunno), and I have no idea where that person got the idea. Jim said that he knew it wasn't true because his girlfriend at the time knew me from an elementary school thing where the grade 6 kids would read to kintergarteners and vice versa, and I had been paired with her - she didn't think anything about the way I talked, interacted, or made eye contact threw up any flags. And of course, years later, Jim was finding me to come off as a pretty ordinary guy, albeit some very quirky ideas and work habits about making music. Which the two of us shared.

Jim studied psychology in university, and years after he had left school and I was in freshman year, I learned what synesthesia was and immediately told him. Jim told me that no, what I described was not synethesia, which he understood to be a fairly debilitating condition that confuses and stresses sensory inputs. What I experienced, he said, was just a normal thing everyone did, including him. In the intervening years, I've talked to lots of people who would confirm that, no, not everyone experiences this at all, and most of whom regarded my experiences as quite alien and fascinating. Up until this thread, I think I had come across two other people in person besides Jim who said they strongly associated colours with graphemes, a countless others who couldn't understand how such a thing would even work. (I lived with a friend at a house at 17 Union Street once, and we disagreed on whether 17 was bronze-coloured or light blue. The house was dark grey with white street numbers).

I expect a lot of you reading have figured out where this is going. We found out that Jim has asperger's syndrome. Certain tendencies of his now make a lot more sense, and his life has made some very positive changes since he's been diagnosed. While I don't know that I ever thought negatively about neurodiverse people, this news certainly recalibrated the degree of "normal" a person can be and still receive such a diagnosis. So what does that say about me? I'm fairly sure that if I were examined by the same standards as Jim, I would come out looking pretty solidly neurotypical. But do the standards by which we describe medical conditions, accurately describe the inner workings of one's brain? Is "autism" something that only some people have, or is it just like "height", where the second-least-autistic person in the world is still more autistic than the least autistic? This is probably a very ignorant question, but I'm sure there's a decent way to reframe it that would make me come off as less of a rube.
 
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VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
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I had a beautiful French girlfriend who was a Ph.D student in solar panel technology and I thought her incredibly smart, witty and attractive.

But she hated her father and she told me she dreamt twice about cutting off my hands and feet. Uh. Excuse me?! It was just a dream, she said, laughing it off. She also showed no sympathy for others and thought all animals were disgusting.

I didn't want to judge her, but her mental life was so different from mine that I couldn't understand her nor predict her actions. When I started to be scared of her, I broke up (and left town immediately).

I dunno about the spectrum, but she had empathy issues.

But everyone has issues, don't they? Psychologists say so. But then again, that's their job. To a hammer, nails are everywhere.
 

VanIslander

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Donald is not the biggest, strongest, heaviest... not even the fastest...

But he can juke and outmaneuver.

(No one ever references his NCAA wrestling success - gawd the media sucks in terms of effort.)
 

VanIslander

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Do you know..

A guy helped a team win the Stanley Cup, immediately thereafter was named the new team captain. Shat (the past form of 'shit' i believe) in the cup and then the franchise took away his captaincy (no record of it exists today).

Who was he?

(He sometimes is a MLD pick, sometimes not.)

Hushhh (Detroit)
 

Johnny Engine

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I had a long justifcation written out and lost it, but my answer is Carl Liscombe. That's going to be it.

Also, I'm not sure how you have this information if there's "no record of it", but hey, why not.
 

ImporterExporter

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All I know is I picked Tamp and KC to make the SB, before the season started, because that's the best match up for ratings. Great story lines. All that adds up to more money for the powers that be.

And here we are. :sarcasm:
 

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
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Also, I'm not sure how you have this information if there's "no record of it", but hey, why not.
Buy 100+ books from 70slord and read every last one of them because you live in Asia, surrounded by text you don't understand, it being before you buy your first smartphone.
 

Johnny Engine

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Seems to me like there was a record of it, albeit not official ones with the team...

So was it Liscombe?
 

Dreakmur

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Buy 100+ books from 70slord and read every last one of them because you live in Asia, surrounded by text you don't understand, it being before you buy your first smartphone.

There's a difference between an obscure piece of history and something that isn't recorded.

If there was no record of it, you'd have to be a first-hand witness to know about it.
 

ResilientBeast

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210118091423-tom-brady-bucs-saints-super-tease.jpg



GOAT
 
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