At what point does Kucherov gain the respect he deserves?

[ManofSteel55]

Pending the results of the rest of the playoffs, Kucherov is at least in the conversation of the best player not named McDavid. His level of play and tangible accomplishments over the last handful of seasons up to this point in time speaks to this.

Over the last 5 seasons, he ranks 6th in total points and 2nd in PPG. He missed an entire season (2021) and still ranks that high in points. He has a sizable lead over #3 in PPG (the always underappreciated Marchand).

He won a Hart, Lindsay, and Art Ross. His 128 points in 2018-2019 is the most over the course of a full season since Mario and Jagr of 1995-1996.

Only 6 players in NHL history have more than the 34 points he had in the playoffs last season. Gretzky and Lemieux are the only players ever with more than the 27 assists he dished out.

With 22 points in 13 games so far, he is well on his way to hitting 30 points again. In NHL history, only Gretzky, Messier, Kurri, and Lemieux have reached that mark more than once in the playoffs.

If he leads this team to another Cup, nabs the Conn Smythe, and collects 30+ points again, that's a wrap in my opinion. When someone is doing things that have "only Gretzky, Lemieux, etc" attached to it, it's time to put respect on that name.

The time will have come for him to be universally ranked #2 in the game. What say you?

I think most consider him to be in the #2 - 5 in the league. His stock is questioned by some because he isn't a centre, and by some because he didn't play in the regular season.

McDavid

Kucherov/Draisaitl/McKinnon

I don't think that is being disrespected at all. Yes, he has more cups than the guys he is in the conversation with. That's great, but "Cups" isn't much of a difference maker in this discussion, as it is a team sport. It might be enough to lift him above the two I listed above who are basically on par with him, but it isn't like there is a massive gap there just because of cups.

Was Kevin Lowe (6 cups) greater than Ray Bourque in the 1980's-90's? Of course not. Cups are at absolute most a tie breaker to me.

 

[Jozay]

After reading this thread, my respect for Kucherov has gone up.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

Actually i had two rotator cuff/labrum surgeries from playing hockey and was back to 100% in 5 weeks each time. Then i tore my meniscus in my left knee, had it fixed and was back in 6 weeks. So yea what were you saying?

Holy shit! Are you Wolverine? Or could it possibly be that people heal differently and no one values your health (apparently yourself either)? If you were an asset to an NHL team, you know, where your whole value is based on playing hockey, if you had even a slight click in your knee or shoulder your ass would be sitting because the long term effects could cost you 10's of millions of dollars in the long run.

 

[Beyonder91]

He has more points than anyone else because he has played more games than anyone else. Since 2014 Mack has scored at a greater rate than Kuch has. If you think the only reason Kucherov has played double the playoff games is because he is that good, I dont know what to tell you.

While I agree comparing him with a guy that has been in 2 or 3 series is not right. You cant just say he has the most points by a mile, when he has also played the most games by a mile.

Yet Kuch has a cup ring and has gone to the finals twice.
MacKinnon hasn't got out of the second round and just folded like a cheap chair putting up no points in games 3,4,5 last series en route to losing 4 games in a row.
If you don't think the fact Kucherov is so far ahead of anyone else in playoff points doesn't matter I don't know what else to tell you.
It's crazy to say that Mack's playoff performance is more impressive no matter how you try to spin it.

 

[wingnutks]

Yet Kuch has a cup ring and has gone to the finals twice.
MacKinnon hasn't got out of the second round and just folded like a cheap chair putting up no points in games 3,4,5 last series en route to losing 4 games in a row.
If you don't think the fact Kucherov is so far ahead of anyone else in playoff points doesn't matter I don't know what else to tell you.
It's crazy to say that Mack's playoff performance is more impressive no matter how you try to spin it.

I didnt say it doesnt matter. But you cant just make a blanket statement like that when the number of games is not remotely set. I dont think it is the best way to compare players, same way I dont think playoff wins would be the best way to compare goalies.

 

[Hoochi Papa]

KUCHEROV DOMINATES WHEN HOCKEY GAMES MATTER. PERIOD

At LTIR pulling the most ridiculous cap circumvention we've ever seen?

 

[DistantThunderRep]

At LTIR pulling the most ridiculous cap circumvention we've ever seen?

Shocking, people who have long term injuries take time to rehab and heal. Amazing!

 

[GrandmaSlices51631]

His antics make Doucherov an appropriate name, however, there is no doubt that he is elite and deserves all the credit he gets. He is a master of deception and I was actually quite fond of him during his rise to stardom, until we had to play him in the playoffs.

 

[North Cole]

I constantly see him in the top 5 when ranked so I mean... is that not already respect??

 

[Bank Shot]

He should try to be as Canadian as Mackinnon. Then he'll get more overrated.

 

[geoo9]

Not possible, he can win 5 SCs in a row and be best playoff perfomer next 5 years but people will continue to consider best regular season poing gainer as second coming of Jesus . They will find any possible exuse to MacD against Kucherov, forgetting that Kuch never had anyone close to Draisatl as his teammate blaiming kuch to have better team to support him. None of them would ask why only Kuch have mythical benefit of his team of all top players in his team (no stamkos des it) and in league and not other way - the best playoff performer of last 5 or more years makes his team better giving it real chances to win Sc every fokin year - and noone from his mythical team does similar effort , and noone in Legaue have similar impact.
Even in his Hart season people somehow blamed that his team worked on Kucherovs Hart (amazing)
People are sick in NA

 

[Beyonder91]

I didnt say it doesnt matter. But you cant just make a blanket statement like that when the number of games is not remotely set. I dont think it is the best way to compare players, same way I dont think playoff wins would be the best way to compare goalies.

Nowhere did I say he is the best player in the world or that proves he is better than anyone else.

I simply added another amazing accomplishment to his accolades in response to the OP.

If people want to believe that MacKinnon, Rantanen and Draisatl have had better playoff performances because they have higher ppg in far fewer games played they are free to do that. I personally think that's absurd and really has nothing to do with the achievement I was trying to point out.

 

[On Edge]

What more respect can a guy get when he is routinely mentioned as possibly the best player in the world? What does not help him is his propensity for flopping, extending an injury recover to get his team under the cap in time for the playoffs, his sneaky dirty stuff and most of all that god awful haircut.

He is a great player for sure but seems like a mutt to me.

 

[geoo9]

I didnt say it doesnt matter. But you cant just make a blanket statement like that when the number of games is not remotely set. I dont think it is the best way to compare players, same way I dont think playoff wins would be the best way to compare goalies.

True Hockey begins at postseason. Who said that?
You can not compare Regualr season stats to playoff stats and effort. everyone know what is harder and whan is really matters

 

[wingnutks]

Nowhere did I say he is the best player in the world or that proves he is better than anyone else.

I simply added another amazing accomplishment to his accolades in response to the OP.

If people want to believe that MacKinnon, Rantanen and Draisatl have had better playoff performances because they have higher ppg in far fewer games played they are free to do that. I personally think that's absurd and really has nothing to do with the achievement I was trying to point out.

Understand

 

[psycat]

back in 2019, he was basically ranked #2 and people seemed to praise him, then mcdavid and drai started having chemistry and mcdavid pumped drai's numbers up extremely high so in 2020 everyone forgot about kuch. now its 2021. i bet next season kuch will earn the #2 again

Im still waiting for McDavid to earn #1(no doubt he has the talent to do so), this playoffs his stats got pumped up by Drai for sure. Regular season hero vs same handful of teams over and over.

 

[geoo9]

I don't think that is being disrespected at all. Yes, he has more cups than the guys he is in the conversation with. That's great, but "Cups" isn't much of a difference maker in this discussion, as it is a team sport. It might be enough to lift him above the two I listed above who are basically on par with him, but it isn't like there is a massive gap there just because of cups.

Nobody said Cups but how you avoyding that Kucherov is best current playoff performer since he enter league? Didnt that matters more that just regular season racking points? Is that gap because his postseason statistics? McD have Draisatl - Kucherov never had anyone close to Drai level but he made hardest work in hockey since he enters league better than anyone else - scoring points at postseason - that is what really matters -without any Elite supporting cast like Drai or Etc

 

[geoo9]

Im still waiting for McDavid to earn #1(no doubt he have the talent to do so), this playoffs his stats got pumped up by Drai for sure. Regular season hero vs same handful of teams over and over.

shhh only Kuch benefits from his team - not other guys in league

 

[AllDay28]

He’s the best winger in the world no question.

 

[psycat]

shhh only Kuch benefits from his team - not other guys in league

People are just oblivious. McDavid plays with another top 5 offensive player in the game and gets as much ice-time as he wants and people believe he would produce more on a team where he would play 5 min less per game and share PP-time.

But of course same people told me for years that Karlsson only produced as much as he did because he played on a bad team where he was allowed to roam free.. makes zero sense.

Then you have the "But much center wow" crowd forgetting that McDavid is basically an alibi center who is medicore defensively, kinda bad at faceoffs and doesn't really elevate his linemates. Or well I guess he elevate Draisaitl but Draisaitl(even when he plays better) somehow doesn't elevate McDavid cause the latter is around 1-5% better of a player. But Kucherov is obviously partly a product of Stamkos playing on a different line, regardless of if Stamkos is hurt or not.

 

[geoo9]

People are just oblivious. McDavid plays with another top 5 offensive player in the game and get as much ice-time as he wants and people believe he would produce more on a team where he would play 5 min less per game and share PP-time.

But of course same people told me for years that Karlsson only produced as much as he did because he played on a bad team.. makes zero sense.

Infinite bias. Impossible to make people recognize that Kucherov better than macdavid.
Just no chance for MacD who reliying only at own skillset - to outscore Kucherov even once at playoofs when his IQ gives Kuch edge over anyone else.

 

[zeykshade]

I honestly don't care. #86 plays in Tampa. All I care about.

 

[geoo9]

Im still waiting for McDavid to earn #1(no doubt he has the talent to do so), this playoffs his stats got pumped up by Drai for sure. Regular season hero vs same handful of teams over and over.

When i see McD postseason - he tries to do same stuff as always - receive puck in neutral zone and run to goalie - he didnt think about posessial game, didnt have skills, vision and IQ to change tempo of game, slow it down, then acelerate , read opponents, deceive them , he want rush and opponents at highest possible pace and teams shuts him down without problems
Kucherov at postseasn just thinks faster and smoother than 99% of players - he now slow as half of former himself before surgery , he didnt fast didnt strong but all of his actions are smart at highest level, his problem that he isnt flashy, people didnt even realized that how he deceive goalies by hiding not only his shot nut even head motion and eyes before he shot, how guy reads game for 1-2 steps before actions, you can realize most of his actions only at reviews but it no chance to opponents read him during game and that is his biggest advantage over MCD at postseason, opponents just reads McD and knows what he will bring there,

 

[geoo9]

I honestly don't care. #86 plays in Tampa. All I care about.

concratulations to have best player in the world last 5 or so years. Postseason numbers dont lie

 

[Hoochi Papa]

True Hockey begins at postseason. Who said that?
You can not compare Regualr season stats to playoff stats and effort. everyone know what is harder and whan is really matters

So do we count things achieved when your team is 20% over the cap?