At what point does Kucherov gain the respect he deserves?

[Bounces R Way]

O well if you say so then it must be true.

Opinion: lots of people had him as the second best player in the league before his injury and he was almost unanimously a top 5 player. Not sure how much more respect a guy can receive.

No it's true because it's an observable fact.

Here's the NHL Network's Top 50 Players released in January of this year
Kucherov ranked #7

Here's the bleacher report's top 25 players headed into this year's postseason
Kucherov ranked 15th

Here's ranker's top 50 list voted on by fans
Kucherov ranked #4

Here's the Athletic's top 100 players by tier released in January of this year
Kucherov unranked due to injury but mentioned he would be in the 1B tier. Which would put him behind Matthews, McDavid, and MacKinnon at least.

So your statement "most had him #2 before his injury" is demonstrably false. Didn't come across any lists that did actually.

 

[geoo9]

“Year after year.” The Oilers seldom make the playoffs, but when they do, McDavid is over a PPG on a significantly worse team.

i dont get why you bring here that team exuse. He scores in his line and i dont think
Puljujärvi,
Drai
MAcdavid
significantly Worse than
Kucherov
Palat
Point
Tell me more about McDs dropping in scoring when they make playoffs.

 

[Troubadour]

At the end of the day, it's simple: NA media are more hesitant to worship/acknowledge Euro (not to mention Russian) players than they are with American/Canadian players. It has always been like that. They always give in eventually, but it takes longer if you're a Euro. There are exceptions ofc. It's not really bias. They simply naturally gravitate towards celebrating can/us players.

 

[Doubty]

He's having a great playoffs, but didn't do much during the regular season. Basically a present day version of 2006 Fernando Pisani

Isnt playoffs the most important time to step up on the game? Clutch players are at their best on the most important matches.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

i dont get why you bring here that team exuse. He scores in his line and i dont think
Puljujärvi,
Drai
MAcdavid
significantly Worse than
Kucherov
Palat
Point
Tell me more about McDs dropping in scoring when they make playoffs.

What are we talking about? Tampa Bay has been a top 3 team in the NHL for literal years now. The Oilers are a total dog shit team outside of McDavid and Draisatl. Edmonton is SO bad that they often miss the playoffs and struggle to make it even when they do. McDavid is over a ppg in the playoffs, and two of the three times they made it, the team literally got swept...why? Because, the Oilers are an extremely bad hockey team. If McDavid wasn't on the Oilers, they'd be a lottery team. If Kucherov wasn't on the Lightning, which we saw this year, Tampa is still an elite hockey team. McDavid still delivers elite playoff performances despite playing for a terrible team. This argument is ludicrous.

 

[SelanneSelanne]

I'm just a guy in Australia who watches the NHL and I respect him very much. perhaps he is respected more than you realize?

I just ordered a jersey with his name on the back because I believe he is one the the smartest and most talented guys out there. his passes are on a level only panarin and kane can replicate.

the guys I talk to who are fans down here all think he is insanely good. In next seasons fantasy draft I expect him to go 4th or 5th overall.

hope this helps.

 

[McRpro]

What are we talking about? Tampa Bay has been a top 3 team in the NHL for literal years now. The Oilers are a total dog shit team outside of McDavid and Draisatl. Edmonton is SO bad that they often miss the playoffs and struggle to make it even when they do. McDavid is over a ppg in the playoffs, and two of the three times they made it, the team literally got swept...why? Because, the Oilers are an extremely bad hockey team. If McDavid wasn't on the Oilers, they'd be a lottery team. If Kucherov wasn't on the Lightning, which we saw this year, Tampa is still an elite hockey team. McDavid still delivers elite playoff performances despite playing for a terrible team. This argument is ludicrous.

This is false.

 

[geoo9]

McDavid is over a ppg in the playoffs, and two of the three times they made it, the team literally got swept...why? Because, the Oilers are an extremely bad hockey team. If McDavid wasn't on the Oilers, they'd be a lottery team. If Kucherov wasn't on the Lightning, which we saw this year, Tampa is still an elite hockey team.

I dont argue who is more important, who have bad team who would win or who lose without any of them- i literally saying you that one played better at playoffs not having better attacking line at playoffs. Again that better team Exuse- noone saying today that Grezky was overrated because he does his scoring records at dreamteam or someone better than grezky because of a bad team he played
Stronger team didnt make your line better - it works other way - performing line makes your team better - if your top line performs well at regualr season and stuck at postseason - there is problem. Difference is Kucherov line didnt stuck mostly because of Kucherov - not because of his team was better or something else

 

[Beville]

A lot of people will have him as a top 5 player in the league.

people just don’t like him because he’s conveniently out for the whole season until the playoffs.

 

[geoo9]

A lot of people will have him as a top 5 player in the league.

people just don’t like him because he’s conveniently out for the whole season until the playoffs.

he had injury and surgery but people would never give him his due because he is not big, fast, flashy and not proper canadian centre))

 

[Aurinko]

Majority of the discussion is in English by Canadians in this forum. I'm sure Russians have their own ideas and saw the potential Kucherov had even before he became a star. Lightning fans probably also have respected for him even before the cup.

The opinion that can be seen in the HFBoards general isn't what fans of the team or other nationaly fans of the player/team think. In fact, even most English speaking chatters don't agree with half of the topics and claims made on the boards, but just don't want to get involved in some obsolete discussion or horrible claim made by people who just want to irritate and cause discussion.

Personally I valuate cup wins high (and defensive plays). If Tampa grabs another cup, my Kucherov stonks will go up.

 

[psycat]

What are we talking about? Tampa Bay has been a top 3 team in the NHL for literal years now. The Oilers are a total dog shit team outside of McDavid and Draisatl. Edmonton is SO bad that they often miss the playoffs and struggle to make it even when they do. McDavid is over a ppg in the playoffs, and two of the three times they made it, the team literally got swept...why? Because, the Oilers are an extremely bad hockey team. If McDavid wasn't on the Oilers, they'd be a lottery team. If Kucherov wasn't on the Lightning, which we saw this year, Tampa is still an elite hockey team. McDavid still delivers elite playoff performances despite playing for a terrible team. This argument is ludicrous.

As I already pointed out it's absolutely ridiculous to believe McDavid would have higher ppg on the Lightnings than he does on the Oilers. He would share pp-time and don't get as much as ice-time.

McDavid plays with another top 5 offensive talent in the world but somehow that's not a good linemate, yet their coach incists on having them together at all times. I suppose Draisaitl is the only one benefitting since he is around 1% worse of a player? But Kucherov is obviously a product of Stamkos being on another line, regardless of if Stamkos is injured or not.

It's insane which kind of mental gymnastics people come up with.

 

[Sempiternal]

Yeah there’s pictures of Putin with Ovechkin and Malkin, but not Kucherov! Come on Vlad, give Kuch some love.

 

[User9992]

Yeah there’s pictures of Putin with Ovechkin and Malkin, but not Kucherov! Come on Vlad, give Kuch some love.

Ovi & Malkin are part of a 'Putin Team'. Most russians hate them for that.

Meanwhile Panarin stands against Putin & supports 'the opposition'.

 

[VinikToWinIt]

“Year after year.” The Oilers seldom make the playoffs, but when they do, McDavid is over a PPG on a significantly worse team.

Not to turn this into a McDavid thread and summon the mob, but McDavid has been over PPG in one of his 4 playoff series, against the 12th seeded Blackhawks. 9 of his 22 playoff points are from that 4 game stretch against a team that in a normal year wouldn't sniff the playoffs.

His other series have been:

Anaheim: 5 points, 7 GP
San Jose: 4 points, 6 GP
Winnipeg: 4 points, 4 GP

All of these series came after winning the Art Ross by 10+ points.

Not bad numbers, but a far departure from his regular season mastery. This isn't to say he's a bad playoff performer and the sample size is obviously small, but he hasn't really set the playoffs on fire when he's been there.

 

[Ms Maggie]

Pending the results of the rest of the playoffs, Kucherov is at least in the conversation of the best player not named McDavid. His level of play and tangible accomplishments over the last handful of seasons up to this point in time speaks to this.

Over the last 5 seasons, he ranks 6th in total points and 2nd in PPG. He missed an entire season (2021) and still ranks that high in points. He has a sizable lead over #3 in PPG (the always underappreciated Marchand).

He won a Hart, Lindsay, and Art Ross. His 128 points in 2018-2019 is the most over the course of a full season since Mario and Jagr of 1995-1996.

Only 6 players in NHL history have more than the 34 points he had in the playoffs last season. Gretzky and Lemieux are the only players ever with more than the 27 assists he dished out.

With 22 points in 13 games so far, he is well on his way to hitting 30 points again. In NHL history, only Gretzky, Messier, Kurri, and Lemieux have reached that mark more than once in the playoffs.

If he leads this team to another Cup, nabs the Conn Smythe, and collects 30+ points again, that's a wrap in my opinion. When someone is doing things that have "only Gretzky, Lemieux, etc" attached to it, it's time to put respect on that name.

The time will have come for him to be universally ranked #2 in the game. What say you?

I've been busy.

But right after I complete my 3rd qtr forecast and get my mother in law to the dentist, I'll give K the "respect he deserves". I'm chagrined that I've been so negligent.

Never gonna get that Hockey Fan merit badge at this rate.

 

[kp61c]

Ovi & Malkin are part of a 'Putin Team'. Most russians hate them for that.
Meanwhile Panarin stands against Putin & supports 'the opposition'.

Sadly, most russians don't give a damn and the rest are poisoned by putin's propaganda.

 

[saintunspecified]

I don't think anyone thinks Point is better than Kuch in general. In that particular instance of last years playoffs though, Point absolutely was better than Kuch, Point elevated himself above everyone else on his team and had one of the best playoff performances we've seen.

Point may be a better puck carrier than Kucherov (he's *really* good also), but what Kucherov does without the puck (typcially before getting the puck) is really special.

 

[andrjusha]

I unreservedly respect that Kucherov is one of the top 5 talents on the planet.

I don't think he deserves much respect as a player though.

If this is the worst he has done as a player - he gained more of my respect actually

 

[BurnabyJoe7]

No it's true because it's an observable fact.

Here's the NHL Network's Top 50 Players released in January of this year
Kucherov ranked #7

Here's the bleacher report's top 25 players headed into this year's postseason
Kucherov ranked 15th

Here's ranker's top 50 list voted on by fans
Kucherov ranked #4

Here's the Athletic's top 100 players by tier released in January of this year
Kucherov unranked due to injury but mentioned he would be in the 1B tier. Which would put him behind Matthews, McDavid, and MacKinnon at least.

So your statement "most had him #2 before his injury" is demonstrably false. Didn't come across any lists that did actually.

I said before his injury, which occurred in 2020. 3 of those 4 lists are dated in 2021 and the list from 2020 has crosby ranked #2 for an idea of how awful that list is.

NHL Rank: Predicting the 50 best players for the 2019-20 season

The top 50 players in the NHL: 2019-20

Those are the first two Google searches showing rankings that aren't fantasy related and he's #2 on both. Of course a guy is going to fall behind in ranking after he misses a full regular season.

Grade A research skills but you get a C at reading comprehension.

 

[VinikToWinIt]

I said before his injury, which occurred in 2020. 3 of those 4 lists are dated in 2021 and the list from 2020 has crosby ranked #2 for an idea of how awful that list is.

NHL Rank: Predicting the 50 best players for the 2019-20 season

The top 50 players in the NHL: 2019-20

Those are the first two Google searches showing rankings that aren't fantasy related and he's #2 on both. Of course a guy is going to fall behind in ranking after he misses a full regular season.

Grade A research skills but you get a C at reading comprehension.

Why would a player slide down rankings because he's injured? Would someone no longer consider McDavid number 1 if he spent a season on LTIR? Do you just arbitrarily slide him 5-6 spots just because?

 

[BigEezyE22]

How about when he shows up in the regular season and takes his cap hit like a man.

 

[BigEezyE22]

Why would a player slide down rankings because he's injured? Would someone no longer consider McDavid number 1 if he spent a season on LTIR? Do you just arbitrarily slide him 5-6 spots just because?

Seriously? It would probably be because he's injured. Wouldn't you expect someone to slip if they were hurt enough to conveniently miss the whole regular season?

 

[zeykshade]

The comparable to Kucherov has always been Patrick Kane for me. They're incredible similar. It's hard to appreciate Patrick Kane where he should be viewed as well. I think Kucherov is even more dominant than Kane was. The dynamicism in his play is in his ability to speed the game up or slow it way down at will. I don't know that Kane ever had the wheels that a healthy Kucherov has and younger Kucherov definitely didn't have the ability to perform surgery on an opponent like Kane has. Kucherov has blended the two remarkably well.

The players people put ahead of Kucherov are clearly fantastic, but none of them possess Kane's or Kucherov's ability to slice teams up with their minds and manipulate other players into bad positions like those two. Typically people look at athletic ability of the MacKinnon/McDavid types and are just awed by it. Personally I find players like Patrick Kane and Nikita Kucherov to be more impressive on the whole.

 

[NJDevilsFan21]

Probably not until the end of his career. Kind of like Datsyuk.

Kucherov like Datsyuk did, plays on one of the leagues' best teams.

Then you guys like Crosby, Ovechkin, and I guess McJesus now (only saying this because Edmonton did make the playoffs...) that turn their previously dumpster fire franchises into competitors for a decade or longer. I think that's pretty much the difference. Certain stars tend to stand out more depending on how the rest of the team is around them. I think Kane suffers the same thing. While he was instrumental in Chicago winning 3 cups, that entire team was just really good. Same deal with the 90s Devils - "Brodeur was a product of the system".