Prospect Info: At 8th Overall the Kings Select Brandt Clarke

Raccoon Jesus

Todd McLellan is an inside agent
Oct 30, 2008
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Lots of free agents next year:

Lizotte
Grundstrom
Byfield
Kaliyev
JAD
Lewis
Roy
Spence
RV
Talbot
Copley

$22.5M in cap space. Doesn't really matter if the team wants to keep them, RV and Roy are gonzo unless someone else moves out.

I could see Lewis being retained if he maintains form, he's a huge value at his salary. I don't see any of the other UFA's sticking around. Maybe Talbot I guess, but if he keeps near his pace his value will bump up, so might as well pay a bit more for a younger guy.

Team is definitely going to be tight on cap space even if a few of those guys go. I can't imagine a world in which Lizotte, Grundstrom, spence, Byfield, Kaliyev simply accept QOs. Only Laferriere and Clarke will be on a sweetheart deal next year. And then there's the goaltending.

Also in the minors Turcotte, Fagemo, Lee, Thomas, Maltsev, Ward, Moverare are all RFAs so you aren't going to be getting pure ELCs on the roster either

I'ts likely more than Arvidsson/Roy out, we may be looking at the prospect of trading a young guy we don't want to trade just to make ends meet.
 

Fishhead

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Team is definitely going to be tight on cap space even if a few of those guys go. I can't imagine a world in which Lizotte, Grundstrom, spence, Byfield, Kaliyev simply accept QOs. Only Laferriere and Clarke will be on a sweetheart deal next year. And then there's the goaltending.

Also in the minors Turcotte, Fagemo, Lee, Thomas, Maltsev, Ward, Moverare are all RFAs so you aren't going to be getting pure ELCs on the roster either

I'ts likely more than Arvidsson/Roy out, we may be looking at the prospect of trading a young guy we don't want to trade just to make ends meet.
Well, just spitballing:

Lizotte = 2.5M
Grundstrom = 2.5M
Byfield = 4M
Kaliyev = 2.5M
JAD = 800K
Lewis = 800K
Roy
Spence = 1.5M
RV
Talbot
Copley

Clarke and Laf are under $1M, so that helps. I have no idea what the above will sign for and those might be conservative, but that leaves around $6M for 2 goalies. Bjornfot is cheap still and Turcotte won't cost much, so there are a lot of possibilities.
 

King'sPawn

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SHOULD be gone next year -- replaced by cheaper young guys (Clarke, Laf, Turc/Homophobic Slur, etc.). Extra cap space should be used for a goalie and a physical tough guy (PF or LHD). But I don't trust Blake when it comes to roster planning, extensions, etc.
Not sure I agree with this completely. I know I criticize Blake a lot, but he generally has been very good with extensions.

Adrian Kempe 4 x $5.5
Moore 5 x $4.2
Gavrikov 2 x 5.875
Anderson 8 x 4.125

Are just a handful of contracts which look good immediately. Fiala's contract, while I disagree with the price paid, is also very good for a skilled player poised to lead the team in scoring.

My biggest misgiving on his contracts is PLD. But I also just wouldn't have traded for him.

As far as roster planning - it's tough. I agree that a more committed approach to a rebuild was what I had hoped for, but we're seeing players like Byfield and Anderson starting to take on some more ownership of the team and identity. Which, to me, was my threshold for when the Kings should have started shifting gears to try and be contenders, as opposed to the end of the 2021-22 season.

I'm at the point where it all hinges in the postseason. If the Kings actually get past the first round, he's shown he's able to improve the team tangibly where it counts. If they don't get past the first round (or there's an epic collapse and they miss altogether), then Blake's tenure should be in question.

In which case, if Blake's let go, I'd give the next GM some time to decide which players fit in his identity.
 
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Docgonzo

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Roy is probably gone, he’s 28 and this is probably his last chance at a big contract. Cernak signed 8 years/5.2 per but he’s 26. So Roy will probably get priced out and he’ll deserve that contract.

Lizotte will be gone, can’t pay that much to keep him when cheaper options are available plus need the money elsewhere.

Grundstrom I think depends on how he finishes the season, if he keeps up his current play someone will offer him more than the Kings can.

Lewis will probably be kept if he wants to stay because he’s cheap enough to bury or scratch if he declines.

JAD walks can use Thomas in the same position if he can stay healthy this season.

Talbot if he’s ok with close to the same contract I’m ok with him back as a backup.

Just need to find the starter somewhere out there for next season.
 

Frolov 6'3

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Lizotte will be gone, can’t pay that much to keep him when cheaper options are available plus need the money elsewhere.

Grundstrom I think depends on how he finishes the season, if he keeps up his current play someone will offer him more than the Kings can.

Why will both Lizotte and Grundstrom be gone ?

They are both RFA’s with arbitration eligibility.
 
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kinghock

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Lots of free agents next year:

Lizotte
Grundstrom
Byfield
Kaliyev
JAD
Lewis
Roy
Spence
RV
Talbot
Copley

$22.5M in cap space. Doesn't really matter if the team wants to keep them, RV and Roy are gonzo unless someone else moves out.

I could see Lewis being retained if he maintains form, he's a huge value at his salary. I don't see any of the other UFA's sticking around. Maybe Talbot I guess, but if he keeps near his pace his value will bump up, so might as well pay a bit more for a younger guy.
Must be kept:

Grundstrom
Byfield
Kaliyev
Spence

The rest are not mandatory.
 

Raccoon Jesus

Todd McLellan is an inside agent
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Why will both Lizotte and Grundstrom be gone ?

They are both RFA’s with arbitration eligibility.

I think they're a coin flip.

Doubt either signs a QO if there's more money and opportunity elsewhere, especially being arb eligible. Maybe they accept another year or two cheap-ish though and bet on themselves, that would be nice.
 

Schrute farms

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Not sure I agree with this completely. I know I criticize Blake a lot, but he generally has been very good with extensions.

Adrian Kempe 4 x $5.5
Moore 5 x $4.2
Gavrikov 2 x 5.875
Anderson 8 x 4.125

Are just a handful of contracts which look good immediately. Fiala's contract, while I disagree with the price paid, is also very good for a skilled player poised to lead the team in scoring.

My biggest misgiving on his contracts is PLD. But I also just wouldn't have traded for him.

As far as roster planning - it's tough. I agree that a more committed approach to a rebuild was what I had hoped for, but we're seeing players like Byfield and Anderson starting to take on some more ownership of the team and identity. Which, to me, was my threshold for when the Kings should have started shifting gears to try and be contenders, as opposed to the end of the 2021-22 season.

I'm at the point where it all hinges in the postseason. If the Kings actually get past the first round, he's shown he's able to improve the team tangibly where it counts. If they don't get past the first round (or there's an epic collapse and they miss altogether), then Blake's tenure should be in question.

In which case, if Blake's let go, I'd give the next GM some time to decide which players fit in his identity.
I hear what you are saying, and in a vacuum, some of these are good (even great). However, i am speaking in a macro sense of roster building and cap space. While some of those contracts are really good value (failing to mention Cal...and afterthought of PLD/Fiala), it's the totality of it all from a planning perspective that has caused issues -- resulting in lost draft picks to supplement the roster, dump/create cap space, same with prospects, etc. All of this has prevented them from obtaining a solid/decent goalie situation...and physicality/toughness. The former is a huge problem and could be the downfall as the season progresses (or the playoffs). Which again, unless we have perfect injury luck, we're going to have to dig deep into draft picks to trade for a goalie that the other team eats his salary. Not to mention the lack of toughness that could yet again become a problem in the playoffs.
That's roster planning. We're back into a hole. Somewhat helped out by Arvi injury, but still a problem. That should not happen for a team coming out of a rebuild and with a top farm system. We have a poor prospect system, no cap space and no playoff series win to show for it.
 
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Axl Rhoadz

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I hear what you are saying, and in a vacuum, some of these are good (even great). However, i am speaking in a macro sense of roster building and cap space. While some of those contracts are really good value (failing to mention Cal...and afterthought of PLD/Fiala), it's the totality of it all from a planning perspective that has caused issues -- resulting in lost draft picks to supplement the roster, dump/create cap space, same with prospects, etc. All of this has prevented them from obtaining a solid/decent goalie situation...and physicality/toughness. The former is a huge problem and could be the downfall as the season progresses (or the playoffs). Which again, unless we have perfect injury luck, we're going to have to dig deep into draft picks to trade for a goalie that the other team eats his salary. Not to mention the lack of toughness that could yet again become a problem in the playoffs.
That's roster planning. We're back into a hole. Somewhat helped out by Arvi injury, but still a problem. That should not happen for a team coming out of a rebuild and with a top farm system. We have a poor prospect system, no cap space and no playoff series win to show for it.
Different year...STILL NO PLAN!

1701125938942.png
 
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Schrute farms

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Different year...STILL NO PLAN!

View attachment 774123
Same story you said last year -- then the playoffs came and you were MIA for months until the season started back up to do it all over again. Funny how that happens. It's like Groundhog Day.
Hopefully this is the year when you finally get to talk about playoff success and not regular season points. I seriously look forward to that day. you & TM have put so much into the regular season -- one day (hopefully soon -- this season) we can get out of the 1st round (& maybe beyond). We all want the same thing. Well, I'm focused on how we can look & play come playoff time -- you want the sexy regular season points. But i'm assuming you want playoff success too.
 
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King'sPawn

Enjoy the chaos
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I hear what you are saying, and in a vacuum, some of these are good (even great). However, i am speaking in a macro sense of roster building and cap space. While some of those contracts are really good value (failing to mention Cal...and afterthought of PLD/Fiala), it's the totality of it all from a planning perspective that has caused issues -- resulting in lost draft picks to supplement the roster, dump/create cap space, same with prospects, etc. All of this has prevented them from obtaining a solid/decent goalie situation...and physicality/toughness. The former is a huge problem and could be the downfall as the season progresses (or the playoffs). Which again, unless we have perfect injury luck, we're going to have to dig deep into draft picks to trade for a goalie that the other team eats his salary. Not to mention the lack of toughness that could yet again become a problem in the playoffs.
That's roster planning. We're back into a hole. Somewhat helped out by Arvi injury, but still a problem. That should not happen for a team coming out of a rebuild and with a top farm system. We have a poor prospect system, no cap space and no playoff series win to show for it.
I admit I completely spaced on the Petersen contract. I will defend it as one that simply didn't work out, as he was showing competency before quickly declining on a year-by-year basis.

Trading pieces away to supplement cap dumps is definitely something we all would like to avoid. I agree. I'm willing to forgive a bit of it, because I actually thought that the Petersen contract is defensible. I don't want to be a hypocrite by blaming Blake for ridding himself of something I previously thought was good. And of all things - Blake doesn't make a habit of overpaying to get himself out of bad contracts. I'm willing to explore this point more if, say, PLD gets run out 🤪

Regarding team toughness, this does tie in to some of my general complaints about Blake - identity. He's been at the helm for 6 seasons, and was an executive with the team years before that. His formulation and execution of long-term plans is one of his weaker skillsets.

Goaltending is one symptom of that. There's no defense, in my opinion, of having this goalie pipeline:
Talbot - UFA NHL starter
Copley - UFA NHL backup
Rittich - UFA AHL starter
Portillo - traded AHL backup (~2 or 3 years away from NHL?)
Ingham - drafted ECHL tandem (suffered with injury, but no ETA on AHL play)
Markkanen - drafted Liiga backup (no ETA on being a starter in North America)
Slukynsky - drafted USHL backup (~5 years away from NHL at least)

There should be more proactivity. Even if Petersen was playing well last year, he's 30. There should be plans on moving him to a backup role in the upcoming seasons and having someone else challenge on the pipeline.

Back to toughness - I believe toughness is more of a state of mind. Resilience. I like Englund, but I don't think teams NEED a bunch of face punchers. It helps, but not at the cost of playing hockey.

The prospect system, I agree, could use some fine tuning. As much as I've criticized it, though, it's more in the minutiae and rigidity in its application. I don't think Byfield, Vilardi, Kaliyev, etc should have been jammed into the bottom-six. It looks good for Byfield now, but he was a talented player picked 2nd overall - I believed he'd do well once getting regular reps in the top-6. It's how they grow and build skills of the later round players.

Ryan Conmy, for example, is looking poised to be like Jesper Bratt - a 6th round pick with a good scoring touch. When he graduates college, will they expect a smaller scorer to play in the bottom-6, regardless of how well he did in college?

Laferriere was fortunate that Kaliyev was suspended and Arvidsson injured. Else he'd be in the AHL waiting for someone to get injured. Or suspended. I don't think that's a good plan to reward young players for playing well. Especially when they get demoted the moment they don't knock the coaching staff's socks off.

I believe in the org's ability to identify talent. I think they get too caught up in the development process to understand that different people learn different things at different paces in different ways.

Anyway, sorry to rant. I think we're largely in agreement. I was mostly pointing out that we're seeing more potential flaws than abject failures, and I didn't pick up on your general tenor the first time.
 

Axl Rhoadz

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Same story you said last year -- then the playoffs came and you were MIA for months until the season started back up to do it all over again. Funny how that happens. It's like Groundhog Day.
Hopefully this is the year when you finally get to talk about playoff success and not regular season points. I seriously look forward to that day. you & TM have put so much into the regular season -- one day (hopefully soon -- this season) we can get out of the 1st round (& maybe beyond). We all want the same thing. Well, I'm focused on how we can look & play come playoff time -- you want the sexy regular season points. But i'm assuming you want playoff success too.
That's what happens when you get banned...

Of course I want playoff success -- they should have beaten EDM last April, unfortunately I think the goaltending gave out on them later in the round. '22 went seven games without Doughty and Arvidsson -- in a season they weren't even picked to make the playoffs, I'll take that as a win.

You don't get to the playoffs without winning games in the regular season -- I invest A LOT of time watching those games...and winning those games makes me happy. I'm not watching in disgust thinking about what they are going to do come April -- but hey, that's just me.
 

Schrute farms

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Of course I want playoff success -- they should have beaten EDM last April, unfortunately I think the goaltending gave out on them later in the round. '22 went seven games without Doughty and Arvidsson -- in a season they weren't even picked to make the playoffs, I'll take that as a win.

You don't get to the playoffs without winning games in the regular season -- I invest A LOT of time watching those games...and winning those games makes me happy. I'm not watching in disgust thinking about what they are going to do come April -- but hey, that's just me.
Good post -- and i agree with you. 2022 SC playoff was gravy; while 2023 was a complete blown opportunity and choke job.

I'm enjoying the heck out of the season to date. However, we're now at the point where real playoff success is a requirement. So i have that in the back of my head at all times and want us to be a well oiled (no pun intended) machine come SC playoff time. so yes, i'm loving the season so far. In the meantime though, i'm not going to pre-ejaculate during the foreplay (regular season) when there is something more important awaiting me ;) lol
 

Statto

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Well, just spitballing:

Lizotte = 2.5M
Grundstrom = 2.5M
Byfield = 4M
Kaliyev = 2.5M
JAD = 800K
Lewis = 800K
Roy
Spence = 1.5M
RV
Talbot
Copley

Clarke and Laf are under $1M, so that helps. I have no idea what the above will sign for and those might be conservative, but that leaves around $6M for 2 goalies. Bjornfot is cheap still and Turcotte won't cost much, so there are a lot of possibilities.
If Byfield cracks 70pts getting him for 4M would be a bit of genius from Blake. I’m not sure you’re getting Spence that cheaply either. Grundström is getting more expensive by the week also. There’s going to need to be some cap magic being done and moving someone like Danault wouldn’t be a shock (not a reflection on him but the need to keep the younger guys).
 
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Raccoon Jesus

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If Byfield cracks 70pts getting him for 4M would be a bit of genius from Blake. I’m not sure you’re getting Spence that cheaply either. Grundström is getting more expensive by the week also. There’s going to need to be some cap magic being done and moving someone like Danault wouldn’t be a shock (not a reflection on him but the need to keep the younger guys).

Danault >>>> those depth guys on the to-do list.

Though I generally agree. The deeper we go, the more interesting the calls for "playoff experienced" guys will be. I don't put it past someone, particularly if Grundstrom flirts with 15+ goals while providing his usual trucking, to give Carl 3+ million. I'd much rather have Danault at 5.5 than Lizotte or Grundstrom at 3+. That's where Blake's recycling kids needs to come into play, need some ELC/RFA cost-controlled skill.

Never thought I'd see the day where we'd be the type of team to over-inflate our players inevitable salaries but here we are, our guys are potentially playing a line deeper than they 'should' on some other teams!
 

Fishhead

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If Byfield cracks 70pts getting him for 4M would be a bit of genius from Blake. I’m not sure you’re getting Spence that cheaply either. Grundström is getting more expensive by the week also. There’s going to need to be some cap magic being done and moving someone like Danault wouldn’t be a shock (not a reflection on him but the need to keep the younger guys).

Danault >>>> those depth guys on the to-do list.

Though I generally agree. The deeper we go, the more interesting the calls for "playoff experienced" guys will be. I don't put it past someone, particularly if Grundstrom flirts with 15+ goals while providing his usual trucking, to give Carl 3+ million. I'd much rather have Danault at 5.5 than Lizotte or Grundstrom at 3+. That's where Blake's recycling kids needs to come into play, need some ELC/RFA cost-controlled skill.

Never thought I'd see the day where we'd be the type of team to over-inflate our players inevitable salaries but here we are, our guys are potentially playing a line deeper than they 'should' on some other teams!

It's really tough to gauge what will happen. Grundstrom is scoring but he's also on a pace for about 26 points. $1.3M now, I figure at best he doubles that. He's RFA and has limited leverage. Lizzo I could see getting between 2.5 and 3, but he's RFA also. Neither of those guys will want to risk arbitration so I don't think they'll break the bank.

Spence could go two ways. A short bridge between 1.5-2M or they can try to lock him up long term. Guessing they both prefer bridge because Provorov's dead cap drops off in 2 years, similar to what they did with Anderson.

If Byfield hits 70 then $4M is going to be a no-go. But, he does only have 12 career goals in 118 games right now so it should be a show-me contract of some kind. If I'm Blake, I try to nail that down as soon as possible. I'm sure QB's agent will want the opposite.

I don't think anyone will have to be moved out, but that really depends on what the plan in goal is.
 

Statto

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Danault >>>> those depth guys on the to-do list.

Though I generally agree. The deeper we go, the more interesting the calls for "playoff experienced" guys will be. I don't put it past someone, particularly if Grundstrom flirts with 15+ goals while providing his usual trucking, to give Carl 3+ million. I'd much rather have Danault at 5.5 than Lizotte or Grundstrom at 3+. That's where Blake's recycling kids needs to come into play, need some ELC/RFA cost-controlled skill.

Never thought I'd see the day where we'd be the type of team to over-inflate our players inevitable salaries but here we are, our guys are potentially playing a line deeper than they 'should' on some other teams!
Agree on Danaults ability, it’s purely a cap conundrum.

I like him but they have ‘potentially’ Byfield or Turcotte to fit into that slot through the middle. Also with the cap going up some teams out East would probably be very interested in him. Of the players with meaningful cap hits up front his is probably the most moveable and/or the one that you’re most likely to want to move. They won’t be trading Kopitar, Dubois, Fiala, Kempe or Moore for various reasons. I’m not saying I want to move him but if we hit a scenario where they need to move a meaningful contract I think he’s the best candidate.

As you say we will need guys on friendly deals because it’s looking like some of the ELC guys are going to push for big increases. Let’s hope so because if they do it’ll have been a great season.
 

bland

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Shame Anze took so much on his extension. Dude has made some serious money in his career. Taking $8 million instead of $5 or $6 to help out his team isn't a good look for an aging captain.
 

Fishhead

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Shame Anze took so much on his extension. Dude has made some serious money in his career. Taking $8 million instead of $5 or $6 to help out his team isn't a good look for an aging captain.
I think it's $7M, which is more than fair for what he brings.

Unless he falls off a cliff that's a really good deal and does help with flexibility. It's a lot smaller of a cap% than when Thornton was signing for 8M at 38 years old, at least.
 

Axl Rhoadz

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Shame Anze took so much on his extension. Dude has made some serious money in his career. Taking $8 million instead of $5 or $6 to help out his team isn't a good look for an aging captain.
How many 5-6 million dollar players are out there who score a point/game?

Despite your opinion, Kopitar will go down as the Kings of Kings. Sorry, bud.
 

YP44

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Shame Anze took so much on his extension. Dude has made some serious money in his career. Taking $8 million instead of $5 or $6 to help out his team isn't a good look for an aging captain.
Anze's extension is such a win for the kings. Just cause bergeron played for peanuts (relatively speaking) does not mean anyone else should. Deal is a home run.
 
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KINGS17

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Anze's extension is such a win for the kings. Just cause bergeron played for peanuts (relatively speaking) does not mean anyone else should. Deal is a home run.
Just like his last deal was, right? I mean you can't dispute having those Western Conference and Stanley Cup banners hanging in Staples Center that were earned during his last 8-year, $80 million dollar contract. That too was a great deal for the Kings.
 
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