At 6th Overall The Red Wings Select Simon Edvinsson
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NickH8
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- Jul 3, 2015
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I'm sorry, when it comes to prospects stats just do not work nearly as well as with pros, there's even more context that messes with them. This guy is overthinking things. Watch the player, look into some stats, and if they don't allign figure out why, then if you like the player you take them.
Vaunted NHL scout Patrick Bacon
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ricky0034
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- Jun 8, 2010
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his top 8 Defensemen rankings:
1: Brandt Clarke(5th overall)
2: Olen Zellwegar(7th overall)
3: Owen Power(11th overall)
4: Corson Ceulemans(14th overall)
5: Sebastian Jasecko(26th overall)
6: Jacob Guevin(28th overall)
7: Sean Behrens(37th overall)
8: Simon Motew(40th overall)
kinda tells you all you need to know, his #5 Defenseman didn't even get drafted at all, neither did his #6,neither did his #8
can't see any more than his top 8 on his twitter since it shows the 3 highest remaining and at that point there's already 3 that never got drafted
NickH8
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I feel like he's one of those guys that uses stats and stats only, just plugs all the players in an algorithm and lets the algorithm rank it
So he is a Brendan Smith but he plays D instead of scoring secondary assists on the PP?
ricky0034
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- Jun 8, 2010
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yeah and it's even worse than I posted at first looking deeper into it, his #6 and #8 Defensemen didn't get drafted at all either, can't see beyond that on the twitter since it only shows the top 3 remaining
MBH
Players Play
I don't. The guy who he ranked super high has no stats that make me think he's good.
Roomba With a Bauer
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The comparable for him I've seen most often, and it seems apt, is Ekman-Larsson, but if he doesn't up his play away from the puck and improve his play-under-pressure he's going to end up being Smith with more brainfarts.
Watching him get the puck and move into the transition game is beautiful but he seems lost sometimes without the puck. He has good puck skills and passing. Shot is weak. He gets too fancy when he's playing point on the PP and sometimes he gets too fancy in transition. You can tell he's not used to being challenged on the ice and that's one of the biggest things that worries me about this pick. That became apparent when he played in the SHL.
MBH
Players Play
I feel like there's so much cliche thinking here.
The old tools but no toolbox trope.
The idea that Kronwall is somehow some major positive force in the life of every European we have.
What we know is that Edvinsson was generally ranked high.
McKenzie, ISS and Sportsnet ranked him 3rd.
Most of the others had him between 4-7.
EP lists him at 6'5 207 pounds.
Recrutes calls him the 5th best skater in the draft.
HP compares him favorably in some regards to Owen Power and says he might have the highest upside of any defenseman in the draft.
Recrutes has him at 4th best defensive defenseman.
He's a modern transition defenseman. And he's a 6'5 modern transition defenseman. Elite puck retriever. Elite puck rusher. Very good passer.
He's got potential to be like Jacob Slavin. Probably potential to be more.
But I think Slavin is the kind of model I'm hoping for, in that I don't think it's greedy to hope he might develop into that kind of guy.
Slavin has finished top 20 in Norris voting 5 straight years scoring 30 points a year.
NickH8
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- Jul 3, 2015
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Man I hate some of the cliches. Like Kronwall is probably a helpful guy for our prospects, but it's not like he's gonna touch each prospect and fix all of their flaws and turn them into gold.
TheOctopusKid
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- Sep 24, 2010
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I will be the first to admit that Edvinsson was the one guy out of the Top 10 that I wanted to avoid only because I generally prioritize poise, patience, command and understanding of the game, etc. I think the criticisms of him in terms of his consistency, awareness, and overall offensive skill set are fair. I think what remains to be seen is if this is just a consequence of coaching, role, wildly different competition levels, bad technique, or is this something that is straight up beyond his abilities - which seems, unlikely. The reason I say that is he does often makes baffling puck decisions, rushed breakouts, or has poor execution, he also has shown that he is capable of making really intelligent plays, outstanding handle in tough and tight situations, and can hit the tape in higher competitions. Is this literally just a case of being young, having literally all the talent in the world, and just not having to engage on a night to night basis which has led to some mental lapses (my money is on this). When really pressed in the higher levels above age and in the men's pros, he has pulled off some of his better work, better decisions on when to press and join, and literally at the end of the day the kid is 200+ 6'5 and has the lateral agility, and smoothness that just flat out doesn't happen for someone his size. I think this is a coachable thing - and not like Brendan Smith who just literally had rocks in his head - but more to have someone narrow the scope of play and help him learn to pick his spots on when to be more conservative or to use his god given talent to take a risk and make a play; which again, he pulled off as many times beautifully as he did just hucking the puck into the neutral zone. It's about mentally prepping him to really keep that focus and concentration up game over game - shift over shit - which as any athlete knows whose played as a reasonably high enough level, is something that can be worked on and often is needed more often with talented, immature players who have coasted on talent. As he matures, so with that part of his game as well.
All of that aside. If he literally never develops that side of his game and totally and completely busts, he is still a physical freak who has a very strong sense of self, and uses his body, length, skating, and quite frankly pretty mature technique on the defensive side of the ice to separate players from the puck. He has good positioning, good leverage, and again, he's huge, quick, strong, and committed. So baselining this, literally at his absolute floor, he's Brandon Carlo. 6'5+ 220, great lateral quickness, great length, closes gaps, and shuts it down for 20+ mins a night in the Top 4. I'm good with that. That's floor. Because Carlo does very little offensively even though he has a big shot, he rarely uses it to attack and mostly settles back and eats tough minutes and makes it very hard on opposing offenses. That's Edvinsson's floor. Edvinsson does that now except he still oozes with offensive upside. In 4 years and that never really clicks, the simple solve is to limit his options on the offensive side, give him a very clear pass, an offensively capable partner to support, and simplify his responsibility. Done. The long and short of it is, Edvinsson is already a strong defender with great measurable size and agility. That is an awesome spot to start.
If he can figure out the other side of the puck and can spark the offense or lead the way to 40pts on the year? Well, I'm not sure what the comparable is at that point but whatever it is - it's elite
P.S. Goodbye, Svechkov - you were the one who got away
All of that aside. If he literally never develops that side of his game and totally and completely busts, he is still a physical freak who has a very strong sense of self, and uses his body, length, skating, and quite frankly pretty mature technique on the defensive side of the ice to separate players from the puck. He has good positioning, good leverage, and again, he's huge, quick, strong, and committed. So baselining this, literally at his absolute floor, he's Brandon Carlo. 6'5+ 220, great lateral quickness, great length, closes gaps, and shuts it down for 20+ mins a night in the Top 4. I'm good with that. That's floor. Because Carlo does very little offensively even though he has a big shot, he rarely uses it to attack and mostly settles back and eats tough minutes and makes it very hard on opposing offenses. That's Edvinsson's floor. Edvinsson does that now except he still oozes with offensive upside. In 4 years and that never really clicks, the simple solve is to limit his options on the offensive side, give him a very clear pass, an offensively capable partner to support, and simplify his responsibility. Done. The long and short of it is, Edvinsson is already a strong defender with great measurable size and agility. That is an awesome spot to start.
If he can figure out the other side of the puck and can spark the offense or lead the way to 40pts on the year? Well, I'm not sure what the comparable is at that point but whatever it is - it's elite
P.S. Goodbye, Svechkov - you were the one who got away
Dotter
THE ATHLETIC IS GARBAGE
He hasn't played more than 14 games with one single club to build any chemistry, all the while playing under different coaches and systems. Owen Powers, for example, gets 45+ consecutive games under a single club.
Y'all gonna watch Edvinsson shine while eating all that crow.
Y'all gonna watch Edvinsson shine while eating all that crow.
Unfriendly Ghost
Kasper
Maybe Seider isn't going to be a fighter, but Edvinsson sounds game.
What is the allure of Red Wings' first-round pick Simon Edvinsson: 'Just imagine how good he can be'
deca guard
Registered User
omg this is the steal of the draft . i had no idea somebody is finally using their head and training to defend self
Coach Reggie Dunlop
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Seider is against it now, but I’ve seen him in scraps in the SHL and he definitely as a mean streak where he can get angry. I don’t think he will ever be some massive fighter but he will get into fights absolutely no question.
Coach Reggie Dunlop
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HyperX
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I thought Anaheim scored the least amount of goals in this most recent season, and Buffalo before that
Edvinsson is quite the talent, and I think its a smart move because Raymond, Berggren, and Veleno will be scoring in bunches before Simon is getting comfortable on the blueline. Not to mention cap space over the next 2-3 seasons to add goals in free agency
beats the days of DeKeyser being the most promising blueliner - now you have Seider and Edvinsson, along with Buium Wallinder and some other middle pair upside guys
Pavels Dog
Registered User
Seider's looked even worse.
I won't give zero credit to the people doing those algoritms, but there's always going to be players that it misses the mark on.
Reading all the articles and scouting reports, it is always the same. Edvinsson has a very unique level of talents seldom seen in a big defenseman. Some say his hockey IQ is limited, while others say it is high. I can not imagine Hakan and our Swedish alumni have not discounted this.
He is only 18. I am sure you can dig up video on every player showing mistakes. Talent is innate, and he has the potential to dominate the left side. We have the foundation for two very special defensemen.
He is only 18. I am sure you can dig up video on every player showing mistakes. Talent is innate, and he has the potential to dominate the left side. We have the foundation for two very special defensemen.
Unfriendly Ghost
Kasper
It's sorta starting to seem to me like the "Edvinsson has questionable offensive upside" thing is a meme that NHL scouts don't really believe. A bunch of credible sources don't think it's true. Just as an example: several of the guys at Hockeyprospect (tweets linked earlier), and they as an organization completely loved him (and our draft, for that matter). And clearly the Wings' scouts did too, including Hakan.
Like I'm convinced it didn't come from actual NHL scouts, but pseudoscouts like Pronman, Wheeler, and Scouch. Scouch's video in particular is way, way too harsh.
Like I'm convinced it didn't come from actual NHL scouts, but pseudoscouts like Pronman, Wheeler, and Scouch. Scouch's video in particular is way, way too harsh.
OgeeOgelthorpe
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How dare you. Kronwall is a delight of a human being.
(Also he did great with Berggren, Seider and Johansson so far)
The Real Pastafarian
Registered dipshit
After a couple of days, I've come around to really liking this pick.
What really helped for me was the fact that we drafted two more LD later, both boom-or-bust guys with decently high ceilings. And with d-men, most of them have pretty good ceilings, because they take so long to develop -- as long as they have the characteristics that are hard to teach, like size, skating, and internal motivation.
So we're going all-in on the first-pairing LD problem, and one of these 3 guys is going to be the solution. (Or who knows, maybe some other prospect still in the system does.) With this many darts thrown at the board, one of them's going to be a near-bullseye.
First-pairing defensemen are the most crucial spot on the team; we had our RD, now we'll have our LD, whichever one rises to the top. I'm not betting against a big Swede with great wheels. Teach him how to shoot. And more importantly:
Let him develop that "decision making" we call hockey IQ -- which is really neither IQ, nor decision-making. Because of the speed of the game, these moves have to be instantaneous, there's no time to make a decision. And Jonathan Ericsson was a very intelligent articulate guy, probably had a 140 IQ (typical Swede), but on the ice....let's just say he had analysis paralysis. This ability that great d-men have to do the right thing under pressure isn't IQ. It's more like a muscle-memory that some of them develop. Let's give this kid the chance to do that, and hope he does. We could end up with someone even better than Seider here. Which is pretty exciting.
Picking up Nick Leddy gives us the chance to be patient with these LDs and still not stink on ice. I'm pretty stoked.
What really helped for me was the fact that we drafted two more LD later, both boom-or-bust guys with decently high ceilings. And with d-men, most of them have pretty good ceilings, because they take so long to develop -- as long as they have the characteristics that are hard to teach, like size, skating, and internal motivation.
So we're going all-in on the first-pairing LD problem, and one of these 3 guys is going to be the solution. (Or who knows, maybe some other prospect still in the system does.) With this many darts thrown at the board, one of them's going to be a near-bullseye.
First-pairing defensemen are the most crucial spot on the team; we had our RD, now we'll have our LD, whichever one rises to the top. I'm not betting against a big Swede with great wheels. Teach him how to shoot. And more importantly:
Let him develop that "decision making" we call hockey IQ -- which is really neither IQ, nor decision-making. Because of the speed of the game, these moves have to be instantaneous, there's no time to make a decision. And Jonathan Ericsson was a very intelligent articulate guy, probably had a 140 IQ (typical Swede), but on the ice....let's just say he had analysis paralysis. This ability that great d-men have to do the right thing under pressure isn't IQ. It's more like a muscle-memory that some of them develop. Let's give this kid the chance to do that, and hope he does. We could end up with someone even better than Seider here. Which is pretty exciting.
Picking up Nick Leddy gives us the chance to be patient with these LDs and still not stink on ice. I'm pretty stoked.
I don’t think the offensive upside is the question. He has it, but it’s just a question of how much and how likely.
The bigger mischaracterization is this boom or bust narrative tied to that offensive upside. People seem to think he doesn’t project to be a plus defender in the NHL which gives him a reasonably safe floor. The people who dislike this pick talk about Edvinsson as if his profile is the same as Cholowski’s.
Henkka
Registered User
That's what they are now. But what they guys has been in the past, doesn't predict "the room of growth" anyhow.
That's just stat-watching. Our management sees the potential in development.
