Astros punishments: Hinch and Luhnow suspended and fired, team loses 1st and 2nd picks in 2020, 2021

southsideIrish

Registered User
Nov 23, 2019
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One of Saturn's moons
They’re done. I don’t think any franchise is going to want to employ cheaters who got caught red handed

I don't know. The Patriots are happy with Belichik despite numerous allegations and caught cheatings. The Saints are happy (and are media darlings) with Payton despite him being suspended for a year for orchestrating a hit-to-injure bounty program, which is far worse than this.

It's funny how the line is drawn, so many people are saying this penalty is too light, others, not just Houston people, are saying it's too harsh. I'm jaded from the steroid era I guess but I'm not as outraged, not when the Yankees had no punishment from multiple players doping up in their 90s dynast years. And especially if NY and Boston already had used technology with the watches, to steal signs. Isn't that essentially the same thing and they just got quiet, undisclosed fines from MLB? And what will Boston get now as a repeat offender? Has to be at least the same as Houston's penalty right?

There's already rumors of more teams being named. I get that MLB wants this to go away quickly but I bet it doesn't.
 

solventless710

Registered User
Jan 5, 2005
6,953
244
Crane to Hinch and Lunnow...
upload_2020-1-13_18-33-33.gif
 

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542365

2018-19 Cup Champs!
Mar 22, 2012
22,327
8,702
Me too but this was not severe. The Astros are built well enough to where they could probably win the World Series legitimately this year in spite of the penalties.
What do you suggest without completely gutting an entire organization? A year long suspension to their manager and GM(and eventual firings) is pretty steep. They could start suspending players, but that would open up a huge can of worms with the Players Association and I doubt it would be easy to figure out who was most involved in all of this mess.

Loss of draft picks and the slot money associated with each pick is a pretty harsh deterrent too, but those effects won’t be felt for many years(if ever).
 

Voight

#winning
Feb 8, 2012
40,705
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I love how Luhnow says it was "low level employees"

Ummm..... a bench coach is not a low level employee. He is basically 2nd to the manager when it comes to the field. Low level employees don't become managers, let alone managers of one of the leagues most notable franchises.
 

DJ Spinoza

Registered User
Aug 7, 2003
25,349
3,874
Hinch's statement at least acknowledges responsibility. I find Luhnow to be a lot more odious, although I agree with what seems to be our consensus: f*** them both.
 

Emperoreddy

Show Me What You Got!
Apr 13, 2010
130,458
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Buster Olney (@Buster_ESPN) Tweeted:
From the report: "Some Astros players told my investigators that they did not believe the sign-stealing scheme was effective, and it was more distracting than useful to hitters." So... why would they keep doing it?



It’s honestly bullshit the players get away free and clear.

Manfred has done an awful job with this.
 

Voight

#winning
Feb 8, 2012
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Manfred should pass the suspensions until Hinch / Luhnow get new jobs. Basically banning them for life, without actually doing it.

Or if a team pipes up and hires them, they will have to wait even further to work in baseball again.

I expect Manfred to go light on Cora to help out his pal's John Henry and Tom Werner.
 

BMOK33

Registered User
Oct 5, 2005
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Firing them is absurd. These are two guys who nearly won you two titles now you’re going to go start over?
 

These Are The Days

Oh no! We suck again!!
May 17, 2014
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What do you suggest without completely gutting an entire organization? A year long suspension to their manager and GM(and eventual firings) is pretty steep. They could start suspending players, but that would open up a huge can of worms with the Players Association and I doubt it would be easy to figure out who was most involved in all of this mess.

Loss of draft picks and the slot money associated with each pick is a pretty harsh deterrent too, but those effects won’t be felt for many years(if ever).

Thing is you're right about suspending players starting a war with the Players Association. That's not a route I'm really in favor of. As for your statement of the effects not being felt if ever is on point as well. It's less for me about "punish them now" as it is that they need to exercise enough of a variety that is actually going to stop the issue. If all teams are gonna do is have to fire their GM and manager, lose 4 picks and $5 million they'll take that risk all day. If you really... REALLY want to discourage a team like the Sox from cheating you impose lifetime bans so that no one will actually do it. And if you ACTUALLY want to cripple them you just take away their free agency rights and they'll hit the basement in no time. Teams like that may find a manager crazy enough to risk a lifetime ban but they won't risk losing. You could tell me right now that the Yankees are gonna analyze everything the Astros did and say "We're gonna do what they did but do it better and not get caught" and I'd be about as surprised as if you told me you're gonna breathe and blink in the next few minutes.

I guess it boils down to that I want it out of the game. Believe me, I am an enormous believer in not overkilling discipline. Example: my 10 year old (at the time) step-daughter gets in a fight at school. Some parents would freak out. I didn't even so much as raise my voice and after checking on if she was okay and a little "Fights are gonna happen sometimes. Don't get too worked up. But you know fights are not okay and this can't happen again." I say "I'm going to have to talk to your teacher about this to make sure you and that girl apologize. I won't punish you here because if you get one at school too you're not gonna get a break. And if you don't get one at school I trust you'll learn. If you do it again then I won't go easy on you. Alright, let's get a snack. How was the rest of your day?"

I'm that guy and I'm asking that the Astros be made a MUCH bigger example of and the equivalent of had I turned over over my knee, walloped her ass, took her phone and dinner and made her do chores for a week to earn it back. Cheating to win a title like that is NOT okay especially when all it takes to get permabanned by MLB is to bet on games
 

Unholy Diver

Registered User
Oct 13, 2002
19,257
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in the midnight sea
I thought they could have been harsher but I doubt any owner would bring in Luhnow or Hinch after the suspensions are over, the bad press and the fact that both are one strike away from going on the permanently ineligible list will effectively end their careers
 

Pia8988

Registered User
May 26, 2014
14,375
8,799
The picks will hurt the most.

“Player driven scheme” yet every player gets off. Mandred afraid of fighting the MLBPA over this.​
 

MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
53,679
84,488
Vancouver, BC
Man Beltran is lucky. It sounds like he was knee deep in this too

In the short term and in terms of actual punishment, yes. And it's BS.

But .... he's a 70 WAR guy who had a legitimate shot at the BHOF, and I'm guessing this probably flushes those chances right down the toilet.
 

Emperoreddy

Show Me What You Got!
Apr 13, 2010
130,458
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New Jersey, Exit 16E
They can keep the title. Lifetime bans for Hitch and Cora. Suspensions on key players involved. Lose of more draft picks and bigger restrictions on international spending.

It should have hurt really bad. This doesn’t hurt.
 

punk_o_holic

Registered User
Mar 1, 2002
10,037
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N. Vancouver, B.C.
Firing them is absurd. These are two guys who nearly won you two titles now you’re going to go start over?
That's why we're all mad, especially about Luhnow. Here's my conspiracy theory.
Mlb gave Crane 2 options.

1)fire Luhnow and Hinch. They won't be banned but it'll be up to other teams whether they want to hire them. Still gives those 2 a chance at baseball. The $5 mil fine plus the amount owed to those 2 and the cost of hiring a new GM and manager is the fine. If you fire them then we will give you a lesser punishment (which is why it looks like they got off easily).

2)don't fire them then we will ban them which means they have no shot at baseball and Houston would still be without those 2. And the punishment would be more severe.

Obviously Crane takes option 1 for many reasons. When he fires Luhnow and Hinch, explains the situation. Both are understanding which is why in their statements, they're not butthurt towards the organization.
 

TheMoreYouKnow

Registered User
May 3, 2007
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The picks will hurt the most.

“Player driven scheme” yet every player gets off. Mandred afraid of fighting the MLBPA over this.​

The idea is that players are dumb and will come up with all kinds of dumb crap; it's up to management to set them straight. Looks like Houston Astros management condoned it.
 

Emperoreddy

Show Me What You Got!
Apr 13, 2010
130,458
76,015
New Jersey, Exit 16E
No one in that organization deserves the benefit of the doubt.

Mark Feinsand (@Feinsand) Tweeted:
The report says many players knew the scheme was wrong b/c it crossed the line and/or violated MLB rules. "Players stated that if Manager A.J. Hinch told them to stop engaging in the conduct, they would have immediately stopped." Breaking monitors apparently wasn't clear enough.



Zero integrity up and down.
 
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Pia8988

Registered User
May 26, 2014
14,375
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The idea is that players are dumb and will come up with all kinds of dumb crap; it's up to management to set them straight. Looks like Houston Astros management condoned it.

Yeah I call bullshit on that. The players knew exactly what they were doing and now they're throwing their GM and coaching staffs under the bus to escape blame. Zero character in that dugout.
 

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