Sportsnet: Asset-stacked Senators need willing partners if there’s to be trade frenzy

[BatherSeason]

Because we are already at the contract limit. Our farm team is full as well. Makes no sense to draft much more than we are already.

48 out of 50 contracts isn't exactly the limit. Plus, with 10 UFAs, our contract number also goes down.

 

[TheDebater]

this board will be fun when it blows up that dorion couldn't get a 3rd for Ennis.

I will personally not "blow", but I think Ennis has a had a pretty good season all things considered and has looked really good the last few games.

I will not blame Dorion if Ennis is not moved, but I will be surprised that another team did not feel he was worth a cheap asset at all considering he can play the game and add some offence.

 

[GCK]

Hey dude, look up a little. I literally used the exact quote like 2 posts up.

That is where I took it from. You just ignored this when you complained. These clearly says they will move the players for the right return. I’d rather keep Demelo until the end of season than take a 7th for instance.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Hey dude, the only thing I am still triggered and "riled up" about are the vBucks you promised that I still haven't received from you for trying to troll me yesterday.

I said before that the cheque is in the mail. vBucks are being routed through my Swiss account, and it is international chocolate week, and the banks are closed. So it takes longer. Sorry.

 

[Sting]

Realistically, he should be shipping these guys off and packaging picks at the draft to move up. He doesn't need to make every pick.

That said, we have a history of moving up for guys that end up nowhere (Karlsson being the exception).

 

[Boud]

Hey dude, the only thing I am still triggered and "riled up" about are the vBucks you promised that I still haven't received from you for trying to troll me yesterday.

Lmaooo

 

[Burrowsaurus]

“We do have a lot of picks already, we’ve got a lot of prospects coming, Belleville is in first place with one of the youngest teams in the minors, so getting picks and prospects just to make a trade this year isn’t something we’re probably going to look at,” Dorion said. “We’re going to make sure we’re going to get the right return if we’re going to move players.”

Seems like he said something to me. We also know that every single member of the media that follows the Sens are saying the exact same thing, so either they all came up with the idea together. or they are being led to write articles based on quotes like these from the GM.

okay he did say that , I forgot.. so yeah whats the issue. hes flat out sayong trading these guys for a bunch of picks or prospects isn't something theyre looking at? that don't want to do that. they have some vets that suit their purposes and do the job they want them to do for now. AND who will return essentially nothing in a trade. more value to us

 

[Alfie11]

The article mentions RFAs and UFAs - both are "expiring contracts". So it's not a surprise that the Sens are considered asset rich as having lots of picks & prospects to go with guys that are easily tradeable because they are on expiring contracts.

Guys like Brown, Duclair, Tierney and Paul are RFAs to be. They could be moved or traded, I'm sure the Sens have an idea which guys they want to keep and what value they put on them if they were to trade them.

I don't think the idea is that the Sens would keep a guy like Namestnikov over getting a 5th rounder if they knew they weren't going to sign him....or keeping guys like Pageau and Demelo and letting them go as UFAs because they were only offered a 4th rounder.

I think it is telling that we have multiple sources telling us about lukewarm interest in Sens players. It seems like there's no great demand for our trade pieces.

 

[Micklebot]

he hasn't said anything?

\the article literally says need willing trade partners.. which is a fact that is usually forgotten here

Take a look at the players that get moved each and every deadline. There are always teams looking to add depth for a run at the cup. In the end, they will take whatever player is available for the pricepoint they are looking to pay and role they are looking to fill.

2017:
- Dwight king (15 pts in 63 gp) for a 4th
- Stafford (13 pts in 40 gp) for a 6th
- Streit (21 pts in 49) for Filpulla, a 4th and 7th
- Stalberg (12 pts in 57 ) for a 3rd
- Fiddler (3 pts in 39) for a 4th

2018:
- Shore (16 pts in 56)for a 7th
- Morrow (11 in 38) for a 4th
- Wingels (12 pts in 57) for a 5th
- Letestu (19 pts in 60) for a 4th
- Davidson (5 pts in 36) for a 3rd


2019:
- Lovejoy (7 pts in 51) for a 3rd and Carrick
- Thompson (6 pts in 53) for a 5th
- Oleksiak (11 in 36) for a 4th
- Petrovic (1 pt in 26) for a 3rd

There is no reason we "can't" move our guys if we want to. Somebody will be looking for bodies to fill roles, and we have them. We might not get as great of an asset as we hope, maybe the 3rd we desire becomes a 4th or 5th, but to suggest there won't be anybody interested at all seems fishy.

 

[BatherSeason]

okay he did say that , I forgot.. so yeah whats the issue. hes flat out sayong trading these guys for a bunch of picks or prospects isn't something theyre looking at? that don't want to do that. they have some vets that suit their purposes and do the job they want them to do for now. AND who will return essentially nothing in a trade. more value to us

The only issue would be if Dorion gets an offer for any of these players and doesn't accept the offer because "we have too many assets". Obviously none of us have any idea what the trade market is, or what type of offers if any are coming in, nor will we, but if the media is already running with the "Asset-Rich Sens" tag line and quotes from the GM backing that up, it kind of gives us a little bit of insight into what's going on behind the scenes.

 

[GCK]

So I looked up our contracts situation for next year.

25 players under contract.
12 RFAs
Minimum 4 likely contracts to Sogaard, Mandolese, JBD and Kastelic.
Usually 1st round picks are signed right away so at least 2 more used there.

Thats 43 contracts before signing/resigning any UFAs. Maybe that’s why Pierre says we have sufficient assets at the moment.

 

[Micklebot]

So I looked up our contracts situation for next year.

25 players under contract.
12 RFAs
Minimum 4 likely contracts to Sogaard, Mandolese, JBD and Kastelic.
Usually 1st round picks are signed right away so at least 2 more used there.

Thats 43 contracts before signing/resigning any UFAs. Maybe that’s why Pierre says we have sufficient assets at the moment.

Wouldn't that be an argument to move bodies for picks, not the reverse? Moving Ennis or Namestnikov for 3rd round picks that won't become contracted players if they even do for at least 2 to 3 years has no relationship to how many contract spots we have available for next season.

Even moving guys like Pageau or DeMelo probably doesn't bring back a contract for at least a year or two, because late 1st and 2nds don't typically get signed right out of the gate.

We only have 10 UFA (not including lifetime LTIR), and some like Boedker, Anderson, Goloubef and Sabourin aren't worth a contract anyways, so that brings us to 49 if we re-sign everybody else which won't be the case anyways.

 

[BatherSeason]

So I looked up our contracts situation for next year.

25 players under contract.
12 RFAs
Minimum 4 likely contracts to Sogaard, Mandolese, JBD and Kastelic.
Usually 1st round picks are signed right away so at least 2 more used there.

Thats 43 contracts before signing/resigning any UFAs. Maybe that’s why Pierre says we have sufficient assets at the moment.

Currently only 25 roster spots are accounted for next season. There is tons of room to add. Don't believe everything you read, Sens media is tricky.

Ottawa Senators - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[bert]

So if they don’t get the right return... they’re going to let these players walk and lose them for nothing?

This position would make sense if these players had contracts after this season, but they don’t.

If you’re not going to re-sign them (and we can safely assume that the majority will not be re-signed), a 2nd, 3rd, 4th or even 5th rounder is better than nothing.

Even if you don’t plan on using all the picks, having more gives you much more flexibility in case you want to move up a few spots to draft a kid you really want.

Why buy more lottery tickets for free if you already have the league average?!

 

[Upgrayedd]

Hoping we can get that 2021 4th for Namestnikov back at minimum, didn't care for that move at the time and basically will consider it giving away another pick should it not be recouped.

 

[BatherSeason]

Hoping we can get that 2021 4th for Namestnikov back at minimum, didn't care for that move at the time and basically will consider it giving away another pick should it not be recouped.

But giving away picks is ok because we have too many

 

[bert]

Wouldn't that be an argument to move bodies for picks, not the reverse? Moving Ennis or Namestnikov for 3rd round picks that won't become contracted players if they even do for at least 2 to 3 years has no relationship to how many contract spots we have available for next season.

Even moving guys like Pageau or DeMelo probably doesn't bring back a contract for at least a year or two, because late 1st and 2nds don't typically get signed right out of the gate.

We only have 10 UFA (not including lifetime LTIR), and some like Boedker, Anderson, Goloubef and Sabourin aren't worth a contract anyways, so that brings us to 49 if we re-sign everybody else which won't be the case anyways.

Yes exactly... Also his math is off. He also hasnt presented an argument to the concept the team drafts players that are in college that will take a 3 to 4 years before they need to be signed.

Do they have to sign Mandolese and Soogard? Both still have another year of jr eligibility.

I've always thought it's a weird way of thinking to say 'how many picks does the team need?'. The answer is as many as possible. You can't draft a player like Batherson or Stone without having picks in the mid to late rounds, so why would any team scoff at adding as many as possible?

Get this logic out of here its not welcome.

Pageau should get a first. DeMelo (if we move him) should get a 2nd. And those are my bare minimum expectations. The others could be had for mid to late round picks. But Pageau and Demelo definitely have good value.

Bingo. They should be taking any asset they can get back for the players that arent in the long term future. If they plan on trading Tierney too he should also be traded now while he has the most possible value.

 

[Alfie11]

Currently only 25 roster spots are accounted for next season. There is tons of room to add. Don't believe everything you read, Sens media is tricky.

Ottawa Senators - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Sens media is tricky? Are we going all conspiracy theory here?

 

[bert]

So does this apply to all GMs or just Dorion.
Other than Kyle Clifford no rentals have moved since Taylor Hall.

How many other GM's have 12 + players on expiring contracts? How many hours are there in the day? How do you scout that many other teams players and prospects at once?

 

[BatherSeason]

Sens media is tricky? Are we going all conspiracy theory here?

No conspiracy theory at all.

The media is telling us that the Sens have too many assets, and based on some replies here, some are buying it hook, line and sinker.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Sens media is tricky? Are we going all conspiracy theory here?

More like the propaganda machine

 

[Do Make Say Think]

How much of the "lack of interest" is due to:

- Dorion not trying to set the market
- Other teams working on getting better players
- Our assets being mostly mediocre outside of Pageau and maybe Demelo

 

[coladin]

Frenzy!!

The Senators might have a ton of assets available — namely 10 unrestricted free agents and several more that are RFAs — but have to be realistic about two things:
How many more draft picks and prospects do they truly need at this point? Their Belleville AHL team is loaded with young talent and they have five draft picks in the first two rounds this June, including two lottery picks.
How many of their veterans will actually be in demand as Feb. 24 approaches?

“We do have a lot of picks already, we’ve got a lot of prospects coming, Belleville is in first place with one of the youngest teams in the minors, so getting picks and prospects just to make a trade this year isn’t something we’re probably going to look at,” Dorion said. “We’re going to make sure we’re going to get the right return if we’re going to move players.”

Asset-stacked Senators need willing partners if there's to be trade frenzy - Sportsnet.ca

I suppose they can start asking for 2021 and 2022 picks?

I am fine with simply walking away from some players if you can't get anything. I don't think they want to bring up a whole bunch of players from Belleville. Look for Sabourin, Boedker, Ryan and Chlapik to get more minutes and bigger roles. Leave the rest in Belleville and let them grow together

 

[coladin]

I'd rather they trade Boro while his value is more than a 7D that hes always been.

We have guys like brannstrom, Thompson, JBD, wolanin, Jaros, Lajoie all trying to crack the team.

If we can only bring back 1 of our UFA D id rather it be demelo than borowiecki as demelo is a better hockey player. Get rid of hainsey, Boro, Rielly, and goloubef.

Exactly. NO matter how good he has been this year, and being a good guy, he will only be a 7th D on this team. People are believing the hype on this guy

 

[Micklebot]

I’m sure other GMs will fall for this trick and believe that Pierre Dorion would prefer to keep Tyler Ennis, Ron Hainsey and Dylan Demelo on the 3rd worst team in the league for an extra 15 games instead of acquiring a mid round pick.

I mean, if the alternative is to openly admit he will sell off no matter how poor the return is, then you might as well try the transparent lie...

There is some limited value to having vets with the kids for those final 20 games after the deadline as opposed to throwing the kids into the fire, so if it comes down to keeping Ennis or getting a 7th round pick, I'm not going to lose any sleep no matter which way we go, but clearly we should be moving some of these guys out, and we should be actively trying to moving the guys that can bring back actual value, like Pageau and DeMelo if it doesn't look like we can or will re-sign them.