LeBrun: Asking price for M.A.F is 1st Rounder or 1st Round level prospect + possible mid-level pick

[Blackhawkswincup]

If MAF is willing to go

To
G Marc Andre Fleury

To
G Petr Mzarek
Leafs 2022 1st Round Pick
D Topi Niemela

 

[seanlinden]

If MAF is willing to go

To
G Marc Andre Fleury

To
G Petr Mzarek
Leafs 2022 1st Round Pick
D Topi Niemela

I highly, highly doubt you get either of those pieces from Toronto for Fleury. Niemla looks like an absolute home-run pick for the Leafs, and is a big part of their plans.

More likely, something to the tune of:

- Toronto 2nd 2022
- Petr Mrazek
- Toronto 4th 2023 that becomes Toronto's 2nd in 2023 if the Leafs win 2 rounds and Fleury plays more than 50% of the playoff games.

- Fleury @ 50%


Obviously... there are other permutations as well.... you might see a non-Niemla/Knies/Robertson prospect in there. The 4th to 2nd jump is somewhat large, but complicated with Arizona having an option on that 2023 3rd.

If the Leafs are willing to tie up both of their draft picks this year on a temporary basis (challenging, given that they have no 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th rounders)... maybe you do something like:
- Prospect (Excl those 3)
- Mrazek
- Toronto 2nd 2022 that becomes the 1st if Leafs make it to 3rd round and Fleury plays 50% of the games.

 

[Just a Fan]

If MAF is willing to go

To
G Marc Andre Fleury

To
G Petr Mzarek
Leafs 2022 1st Round Pick
D Topi Niemela

Such an easy pass....come on....

 

[Putt Pirate]

I highly, highly doubt you get either of those pieces from Toronto for Fleury. Niemla looks like an absolute home-run pick for the Leafs, and is a big part of their plans.

More likely, something to the tune of:

- Toronto 2nd 2022
- Petr Mrazek
- Toronto 4th 2023 that becomes Toronto's 2nd in 2023 if the Leafs win 2 rounds and Fleury plays more than 50% of the playoff games.

- Fleury @ 50%


Obviously... there are other permutations as well.... you might see a non-Niemla/Knies/Robertson prospect in there. The 4th to 2nd jump is somewhat large, but complicated with Arizona having an option on that 2023 3rd.

If the Leafs are willing to tie up both of their draft picks this year on a temporary basis (challenging, given that they have no 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th rounders)... maybe you do something like:
- Prospect (Excl those 3)
- Mrazek
- Toronto 2nd 2022 that becomes the 1st if Leafs make it to 3rd round and Fleury plays 50% of the games.

The Hawks don't need another crap G....we have a couple already so taking Mrazek on for cap relief is worth something. And to take on the 3 years of his salary AND 50% MAF......it provides some relief for the Leafs in the next couple years not just at this TDL. So the price would probably be higher than the offers presented. Because we don't need more fluff meh prospects as we are loaded with those too. Overall it depends on how badly the front office of the Leafs wants to have a chance of advancing past the first round this year.

 

[seanlinden]

The Hawks don't need another crap G....we have a couple already so taking Mrazek on for cap relief is worth something. And to take on the 3 years of his salary AND 50% MAF......it provides some relief for the Leafs in the next couple years not just at this TDL. So the price would probably be higher than the offers presented. Because we don't need more fluff meh prospects as we are loaded with those too. Overall it depends on how badly the front office of the Leafs wants to have a chance of advancing past the first round this year.

Mrazek's value is negligible... it's not enough to materially impact the deal. Ultimately, he's gotta be in the deal as that's the only way the cap works.

 

[CallMeShaft]

I highly, highly doubt you get either of those pieces from Toronto for Fleury. Niemla looks like an absolute home-run pick for the Leafs, and is a big part of their plans.

More likely, something to the tune of:

- Toronto 2nd 2022
- Petr Mrazek
- Toronto 4th 2023 that becomes Toronto's 2nd in 2023 if the Leafs win 2 rounds and Fleury plays more than 50% of the playoff games.

- Fleury @ 50%


Obviously... there are other permutations as well.... you might see a non-Niemla/Knies/Robertson prospect in there. The 4th to 2nd jump is somewhat large, but complicated with Arizona having an option on that 2023 3rd.

If the Leafs are willing to tie up both of their draft picks this year on a temporary basis (challenging, given that they have no 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th rounders)... maybe you do something like:
- Prospect (Excl those 3)
- Mrazek
- Toronto 2nd 2022 that becomes the 1st if Leafs make it to 3rd round and Fleury plays 50% of the games.

So Hawks retain on Fleury, take on 2 more years of a nearly $4m cap hit for a goalie with a current save percentage under .900, and they get in return a 2nd and a 4th????? I know you added that the 4th can become a 2nd if the leafs win 2 rounds, but we're talking about the leafs here, so it'd stay a 4th.

I wouldn't take Mrazek for a 2nd and a 4th, let alone add MAF on top of that. Keep your cap dumps if you don't wanna pay for them to disappear.

 

[Homesick]

If the price for MAF is a 1st plus then I would hope the Oilers focus on upgrading their defence and bottom six. Put M.Smith on LTIR and ride with Koskinen and Skinner

 

[AvroArrow]

If MAF is willing to go

To
G Marc Andre Fleury

To
G Petr Mzarek
Leafs 2022 1st Round Pick
D Topi Niemela

No shot Niemela is moved for 1 playoff run of Fleury. 1st + a little, Fleury does not land you Niemela even straight up 1 for 1.

 

[seanlinden]

So Hawks retain on Fleury, take on 2 more years of a nearly $4m cap hit for a goalie with a current save percentage under .900, and they get in return a 2nd and a 4th????? I know you added that the 4th can become a 2nd if the leafs win 2 rounds, but we're talking about the leafs here, so it'd stay a 4th.

I wouldn't take Mrazek for a 2nd and a 4th, let alone add MAF on top of that. Keep your cap dumps if you don't wanna pay for them to disappear.

Look at it from the other perspective...

Toronto trades a 2nd, a 4th, plus their backup goalie, and doesn't make any sort of dent in the playoffs (or does so without a bunch of Fleury's help).... what the heck was the purpose of that?????

Heck, look at it from Chicago's perspective.... you get a 2nd for Fleury who did very little for the team that helped him, and you get a 4th plus a low-commitment 30-year old goalie for the next 2 years because he's a having a down year.

Call me crazy, but due to the nature of the goal-tending position, in that you can only play 1; I'd bet that any MAF deal will have some conditional element that is based both on the team's success, and how big a role Fleury plays in that. Maybe it's something like if the team gets to the 3rd round, and Fleury is credited with at least 4 wins or something like that.

Maybe the second idea is better (2022 2nd that becomes a 2022 1st)... the challenge there of course is that it makes it very difficult for the Leafs to use draft capital on any other additions with both picks tied up between now and the end of the year.

 

[CallMeShaft]

Look at it from the other perspective...

Toronto trades a 2nd, a 4th, plus their backup goalie, and doesn't make any sort of dent in the playoffs (or does so without a bunch of Fleury's help).... what the heck was the purpose of that?????

Heck, look at it from Chicago's perspective.... you get a 2nd for Fleury who did very little for the team that helped him, and you get a 4th plus a low-commitment 30-year old goalie for the next 2 years because he's a having a down year.

Call me crazy, but due to the nature of the goal-tending position, in that you can only play 1; I'd bet that any MAF deal will have some conditional element that is based both on the team's success, and how big a role Fleury plays in that. Maybe it's something like if the team gets to the 3rd round, and Fleury is credited with at least 4 wins or something like that.

Maybe the second idea is better (2022 2nd that becomes a 2022 1st)... the challenge there of course is that it makes it very difficult for the Leafs to use draft capital on any other additions with both picks tied up between now and the end of the year.

I understand a team not wanting to improve their goaltending, or at least spending quality assets to do so.

What I don't understand is Leafs fans thinking they can pawn Mrazek, who is making $3.8m through the 23/24 season, without paying through the nose. Mrazek's stats are ugly this season and are not better than backups making $1m per. So any team taking on that contract is taking on what should be viewed as dead cap space. And last I checked, trading away that much cap over multiple years doesn't come come cheap.

 

[seanlinden]

I understand a team not wanting to improve their goaltending, or at least spending quality assets to do so.

What I don't understand is Leafs fans thinking they can pawn Mrazek, who is making $3.8m through the 23/24 season, without paying through the nose. Mrazek's stats are ugly this season and are not better than backups making $1m per. So any team taking on that contract is taking on what should be viewed as dead cap space. And last I checked, trading away that much cap over multiple years doesn't come come cheap.

Look at the goalies likely to be available to the likes of Chicago, Buffalo, etc. this coming offseason. It 'aint pretty.

One abysmal season, in a new scenery, where he's played 14 games, and been injured, does not erase a career of reasonably solid tandem play.

Chicago needs two goalies for next year. They are probably one of the least desirable places to go right now given the prospect of winning is so low. If you're looking at the alternative of having to commit 3+ years to somebody in UFA, or maybe pay a little more on the AAV, but only have him for 2 years, that isn't such a bad alternative.

 

[CallMeShaft]

Look at the goalies likely to be available to the likes of Chicago, Buffalo, etc. this coming offseason. It 'aint pretty.

One abysmal season, in a new scenery, where he's played 14 games, and been injured, does not erase a career of solid tandem play.

Chicago needs two goalies for next year. They are probably one of the least desirable places to go right now given the prospect of winning is so low. If you're looking at the alternative of having to commit 3+ years to somebody in UFA, or maybe pay a little more on the AAV, but only have him for 2 years, that isn't such a bad alternative.

Didn't realize Toronto was trying to do us a favor by forcing us to take Peter Mrazek. How nice of all of you.

But just FYI, the Hawks are rebuilding, we can go with whoever in net. Last season we went into the year with Malcolm Subban as our most experienced netminder. Having terrible netminders making around a million and helping the tank seems just fine to us.

 

[TheSauceBoss]

Get it done Guerin.

 

[seanlinden]

Didn't realize Toronto was trying to do us a favor by forcing us to take Peter Mrazek. How nice of all of you.

But just FYI, the Hawks are rebuilding, we can go with whoever in net. Last season we went into the year with Malcolm Subban as our most experienced netminder. Having terrible netminders making around a million and helping the tank seems just fine to us.

Nobody is suggesting that Mrazek has any sort of material value... simply that the "toxicity" of his contract is grossly, grossly overstated. It's a constant theme on these boards. Same thing happened with Ritchie... obviously that deal was a little more complicated, with the somewhat strange 2023/2025 pick, and the Leafs seemingly agreeing to pay Dzingel and/or Hutton's salary off the cap... but it seems to me that if Lyubushkin was still available at the deadline, a 2023 3rd round pick would have been a reasonable price for him.

No team goes out intending to tank. The Hawks are likely going to be shopping for at least 1 veteran goalie regardless.

 

[CallMeShaft]

Nobody is suggesting that Mrazek has any sort of material value... simply that the "toxicity" of his contract is grossly, grossly overstated. It's a constant theme on these boards. Same thing happened with Ritchie... obviously that deal was a little more complicated, with the somewhat strange 2023/2025 pick, and the Leafs seemingly agreeing to pay Dzingel and/or Hutton's salary off the cap... but it seems to me that if Lyubushkin was still available at the deadline, a 2023 3rd round pick would have been a reasonable price for him.

No team goes out intending to tank. The Hawks are likely going to be shopping for at least 1 veteran goalie regardless.

Just because Mrazek is a veteran doesn't mean he's any damn good. This year has been awful for him, sure, but he didn't put up amazing numbers behind Carolina's strong D before that either.

On the Hawks, he'd likely be more of the same as he's been in Toronto. I don't know why we'd be paying a guy like that $4m per until the summer of '24. A 2nd and 4th doesn't seem like enough to make it worth it, let alone adding Fleury with salary retained.

 

[nothingbeatshockey]

I'd bet it's either Washington of Toronto, with the trades looking like:

Caps send one of their goalies plus a 1st for Fleury and a mid round pick.

Leafs send a 1st, Mrazek and a prospect for Fleury.

I'm a long time Caps fan and [I know it's blasphemy] a MAF fan. It doesn't sound like he wants to come to DC and, as good as he is, I don't think he is "the" missing piece. The Caps defense in front of whoever is in the net a problem too big for any goalie [except maybe Shesterkin this year] to fix.

I hope MAF does whatever he wants to do, he has nothing left to prove. His chances at a Cup run are getting fewer and fewer, but with his hardware I wonder how much that concerns him.

 

[CDN24]

Look at the goalies likely to be available to the likes of Chicago, Buffalo, etc. this coming offseason. It 'aint pretty.

One abysmal season, in a new scenery, where he's played 14 games, and been injured, does not erase a career of reasonably solid tandem play.

Chicago needs two goalies for next year. They are probably one of the least desirable places to go right now given the prospect of winning is so low. If you're looking at the alternative of having to commit 3+ years to somebody in UFA, or maybe pay a little more on the AAV, but only have him for 2 years, that isn't such a bad alternative.

If you want to see how much value Mrazek has right now put him on waivers... there will be no takers. As too what's available to them next year, they could pick up a goalie on waivers as training camp ends who would be cheaper and better. Goalies who have been on waivers this year include Charlie Lindgren 5-0-0 1.22 GAA .958 sav %, Sam Montembault 7-12-5 3.60 GAA .897sav% on worst team in league, Andrew Hammond 3-0-0 2.40 GAA .920 sav% on worst team in the league. Zach Fucale 1-1-1 with a 1.74 GAA and .924 sav%. All of these guys make league minimum and are more attractive than Mrazek right now.

 

[thesaadfather]

I'd honestly rather run Lankinen and Soderblom next year than take on Mrazek without a decent asset coming back.

 

[seanlinden]

Just because Mrazek is a veteran doesn't mean he's any damn good. This year has been awful for him, sure, but he didn't put up amazing numbers behind Carolina's strong D before that either.

On the Hawks, he'd likely be more of the same as he's been in Toronto. I don't know why we'd be paying a guy like that $4m per until the summer of '24. A 2nd and 4th doesn't seem like enough to make it worth it, let alone adding Fleury with salary retained.

Mrazek was a .923 / 2.06 goalie his last year in Carolina.... in his 3 years with the canes, he averaged around a .913 sv% and under 2.50 GAA.

If you want to see how much value Mrazek has right now put him on waivers... there will be no takers. As too what's available to them next year, they could pick up a goalie on waivers as training camp ends who would be cheaper and better. Goalies who have been on waivers this year include Charlie Lindgren 5-0-0 1.22 GAA .958 sav %, Sam Montembault 7-12-5 3.60 GAA .897sav% on worst team in league, Andrew Hammond 3-0-0 2.40 GAA .920 sav% on worst team in the league. Zach Fucale 1-1-1 with a 1.74 GAA and .924 sav%. All of these guys make league minimum and are more attractive than Mrazek right now.

Again, nobody here is saying Mrazek has any sort of material value.

However, just because he's worthless, doesn't mean his contract is toxic to the point that some posters on this board think it is.

This board is bad for over-under valuing to extremes... it's hard for many posters on this board to grasp the concept of a "take him or leave him -- whatever's easiest" kind of contract.

 

[CallMeShaft]

Mrazek was a .923 / 2.06 goalie his last year in Carolina.... in his 3 years with the canes, he averaged around a .913 sv% and under 2.50 GAA.

Canes are among the best teams defensively in the league over the last few years.

We are not the Canes. He's not gonna have those numbers here.

Stop trying to sell us on him. Nobody wants him unless he's being stapled with some half decent assets.

 

[Dr Amazing204]

crazy

 

[seanlinden]

Canes are among the best teams defensively in the league over the last few years.

We are not the Canes. He's not gonna have those numbers here.

Stop trying to sell us on him. Nobody wants him unless he's being stapled with some half decent assets.

He doesn't need to be as good as he was with Carolina... like other posters have mentioned, Chicago is rebuilding, and likely will be throughout the remainder of his contract.

At the end of the day, this is a 30 year old goalie with almost 300 games on his resume; with a career .909 sv% and 2.64 gaa. Even if the Leafs signed him to a 1 year deal, or some permutation where his Carolina deal had another year left and they traded him to Toronto... he'd still likely be up for a multi-year contract in the 3s as a UFA.

 

[Deadly Dogma]

If MAF is willing to go

To
G Marc Andre Fleury

To
G Petr Mzarek
Leafs 2022 1st Round Pick
D Topi Niemela

I think more like 2nd+Hirvonen+Mrazek

 

[CallMeShaft]

He doesn't need to be as good as he was with Carolina... like other posters have mentioned, Chicago is rebuilding, and likely will be throughout the remainder of his contract.

At the end of the day, this is a 30 year old goalie with almost 300 games on his resume; with a career .909 sv% and 2.64 gaa. Even if the Leafs signed him to a 1 year deal, or some permutation where his Carolina deal had another year left and they traded him to Toronto... he'd still likely be up for a multi-year contract in the 3s as a UFA.

It's his cap hit that is the issue. Why are we bailing out Toronto? No one bailed us out of our cap issues when we were contending; why should we do it for the Leafs? To attain an, at best, middling netminder and some crappy picks? f*** that.

 

[seanlinden]

It's his cap hit that is the issue. Why are we bailing out Toronto? No one bailed us out of our cap issues when we were contending; why should we do it for the Leafs? To attain an, at best, middling netminder and some crappy picks? f*** that.

Teams generally don't worry about "what they are, or aren't doing for the other team". They are self interested.

Chicago is unlikely to approach the cap in the next 2 years, so his cap hit really isn't a big issue. You do it because it's the cost of doing business to get the value out of Fleury, and because you need somebody to play goal for the team next year, and it's unlikely you're going to do any better in UFA.