BatherSeason
Registered User
Still waiting for your proof there was even a thread for you to post it in.Seems like a serious message does it not? It was a get lost we don't want you statement,
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Still waiting for your proof there was even a thread for you to post it in.Seems like a serious message does it not? It was a get lost we don't want you statement,
Erik Karlsson (not even 30):
- 2 Norris Trophies
- 4 1st team All-Star
Daniel Alfredsson:
- 1 Calder Trophy
- 1 1st team All-Star
- 1 2nd team All-Star
Dany Heatley:
- 1 Calder Trophy
- 2 1st team All-Star
- 1 2nd team All-Star
Jason Spezza:
- No personal hardware or accolades
I'm old enough to remember the PIZZA line (heck, I'm old enough to have been posting here at the time). I wasn't using hyperbole when I was stating that Karlsson (before he's even turned 30) has more personal accolades than that entire line combined. I'm not taking anything away from those three players, who were clearly all star players at some point in their careers (and 3 of the best to ever put on a Senators sweater). I just think Karlsson is THAT much better than any of them.
Somebody stated that it was because of a locker room issue. That's where the debate began.He was waived because he wasn't very good and was owed a lot of money for three years. That's about it. No point arguing anything else. If he made a million I'm sure he'd still be here today.
I dont disagree that Karlsson was the biggest start we've ever had... I even stated as much in my first post.
Just pointing out the fact that you were being a little dramatic in your OP when you made it seem like we traded the first good player we've ever had. Just because Karlsson was the best of the lot doesnt mean the other 3 were second rate stars. Heatley was a back-to-back 50 goal scorer, the first one to do it post lockout. He was a superstar in every definition of the word.
That could be how you interpreted it, but that's very different than the message I was trying to get across (a lot can get lost in translation in one line posts on a message board).
Heatley was great, but he also benefited from playing with the other two guys (just as they benefited from playing with him). He was also never "the best" at anything, which makes him a star, not a superstar (in my own personal estimation). In 05-06 he was the 5th leading goalscorer, in 06-07 he was 2nd.
We're arguing over semantics at this point though. It's clear we have differing opinions on what makes a superstar, and that's totally fine.
He was the best on this team at scoring 50 goals & 50 assists in two consecutive seasons something nobody else has ever done on this team in it's recent history, not to mention his record in International play where I believe he led Canada in scoring numerous times. He even tied Gretzky's record of scoring four goals in an Allstar game. He sure played like a superstar to me.That could be how you interpreted it, but that's very different than the message I was trying to get across (a lot can get lost in translation in one line posts on a message board).
Heatley was great, but he also benefited from playing with the other two guys (just as they benefited from playing with him). He was also never "the best" at anything, which makes him a star, not a superstar (in my own personal estimation). In 05-06 he was the 5th leading goalscorer, in 06-07 he was 2nd.
We're arguing over semantics at this point though. It's clear we have differing opinions on what makes a superstar, and that's totally fine.
He was the best on this team at scoring 50 goals & 50 assists in two consecutive seasons something nobody else has ever done on this team in it's recent history, not to mention his record in International play where I believe he led Canada in scoring numerous times. He even tied Gretzky's record of scoring four goals in an Allstar game. He sure played like a superstar to me.
Seems like a serious message does it not? It was a get lost we don't want you statement,
This is Dorion after Smith cleared:
"Zack is a high-character person, he's the heart and soul of that dressing room, but at the same time it was performance related," explained Dorion. "We knew that if we let the team know we won't accept what happened last year, including how Zack played, that, hopefully, the message will be passed through the room."
Good post
Looking at the bits we have right now, I’m wondering whether we’ll be looking at this awesome team in a few years and ultimately praising what PD was able to build here.
In the end, the EK core team was Murray’s team, and what we’re seeing right now is ultimately PDs vision. It will be a few years yet before we see what its parts will become.
The wild card for me is always the budget. If we have room to grow, then things could look great, especially if we’re able to add a few more top prospects in the next two years, we really are being built the right way in my opinion (net out, massive character + skill core to add skill to). If we can’t afford to pay for the core and eventually get close to the cap as promised, then we are truly doomed until new ownership arrives.
I was never completely sold in the last core, especially after the year following the ECF run. But I am seriously enthused with this core of kids right now, so I’m willing to extend a trial period to see if EM will keep his word to his sponsors and business partners. It’s self serving, as I want to see this group make it, if it turns out that he puts his money back in, and this squad develops into what I think it can, I’ll have a ton of praise for what PD was able to build.
In the end, the team in the ice entertaining me is what matters most to me.
And the question now immediately turns to... can they pay up and keep them? They're already about to face it head on with their best player in Chabot.Completely agreed.
The way the collapse and rebuild was handled was a mess, but the collection of picks/prospects and young core Dorion has assembled coming out of it is impressive.
And the question now immediately turns to... can they pay up and keep them? They're already about to face it head on with their best player in Chabot.
That's the one hole in this plan and why there's little optimism. If people believed this next core would be kept, I think you'd see a lot more excitement about the rebuild and prospects they've compiled.
I just had a read. You have some good thoughts, but I think money is going to be a factor sooner than that will play out.You can see my take on that here, if you're interested: Thoughts on the rebuild?
Sending a message would be sitting his ass in the press box for a few games. Putting him on waivers is trying to dump his salary for nothing.
Why would you "send a message" by putting a guy on waivers, when he could be claimed from you by any team? The message is what, "We need you to be better, so we're going to waive you and might lose you. That'll learn you.". I guess they'll just toss Brady on waivers as well if he needs a stern "message" delivered?
Taking anything the org says at face value after all of the bull**** that's happened over the last couple of years is kind of pathetic tbh.
It's the same take I've had for several years Micklebot. It's there to see, you just don't choose to see it. In fact you participate in it.
It's just constant whining. Doesn't matter what happens, whine
That team was crucified in here two years ago. This board couldn't even be proud of a good run. All the things I mentioned were constantly brought up.
If the criticism were valid then, you'd think there'd be some positive vibes about that cast of characters being moved on from.
But here we are reminiscing about the good old days.
I was at work yesterday. Then I played hockey. Got home about 8. Lots of discussion at hockey about the Smith trade. I started thinking on my drive home about the thread that would be here about that trade. It is obviously an upgrade from a hockey view. But I had the over under at the 4th post before I'd read a negative comment about it. And I nailed it. 4th post. Boom.
This place is what it is. Fortunately I still play hockey a few times a week and the hockey conversation has a different tone to it
It's the same take I've had for several years Micklebot. It's there to see, you just don't choose to see it. In fact you participate in it.
It's just constant whining. Doesn't matter what happens, whine
That team was crucified in here two years ago. This board couldn't even be proud of a good run. All the things I mentioned were constantly brought up.
If the criticism were valid then, you'd think there'd be some positive vibes about that cast of characters being moved on from.
But here we are reminiscing about the good old days.
I was at work yesterday. Then I played hockey. Got home about 8. Lots of discussion at hockey about the Smith trade. I started thinking on my drive home about the thread that would be here about that trade. It is obviously an upgrade from a hockey view. But I had the over under at the 4th post before I'd read a negative comment about it. And I nailed it. 4th post. Boom.
This place is what it is. Fortunately I still play hockey a few times a week and the hockey conversation has a different tone to it
And the year before they were 3rd last with Karlsson + that group...
I know that 90% of the posters on HFboards believe that this rebuild is entirely driven by Melnyks desire to save money, but I mean come on. The absolutely terrible results from this team had to have at very least "a lot" to do with the decision to not commit the next 8 years to that core of players.
I know that if I was actually serious about winning a Stanley cup sometime in the next 8 years I would have had to think long and hard to committing 35+ million to a core of Karlsson, Stone, Duchene and Dzingle.
Is that group good enough to win a cup? We will never know, but my guess is that had we signed them, we would have a 1-2 year window to try winning (again, with the same group that fell flat) before we spent the next 6 years stuck with an aging and inadequate core.
Vegas lost in the first round to SJSan Jose, Columbus, and Vegas each got an extra round in the playoffs this year due to that group. Just fyi.
San Jose, Columbus, and Vegas each got an extra round in the playoffs this year due to that group. Just fyi.