Player Discussion Artem Anisimov (C)

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Ya trying to make him look like a NHL player so someone else might get him off our roster. In the end he was still worthless other than someone trying to save cap
Couldn't give him away.

Should fire the guy that handed him that contract that everyone knew was a mistake before it was even signed.

 

[MatchesMalone]

They placed him on waivers and make a public statement saying he was being sent a message. I am not sure how you can mix that up for anything else.
That happened. Your made up story did not.
If you need more to back up what actually went down... other than it happening , well what can anyone ever say

I never saw this public statement, and I try to watch every coach and GM media I can. I did see the outraged comments by coach and players. If you could point me to this statement, I would appreciate it.

I'm really surprised so many people here hate on Boucher so much. I thought he was a hell of a coach. And twice now he's come into an underqualified team, and taken them to the conference finals. Honestly, in my opinion, perhaps Dorion's biggest mistake as GM in Ottawa was letting Boucher go.

While I'm at it, I might as well put in my two cents on Dorion. When it came to Bryan Murray, I was an unceasing apologist and defender to the last days. Sens fans talked about him in a vacuum, like we only had his moves in Ottawa to judge from, while to me he had a myriad of goodwill built up from his days in Detroit, Florida and Anaheim. And he did a lot of good things in Ottawa, as well as some not so good, but the good far outweighed the bad.

Dorion doesn't have a long track record like Murray did. I certainly don't consider myself a fan of Dorion. Think of it like a really good third liner being forced to play top minutes on a bad team. Maybe he can still be an effective second liner, but would be way over his head on a first line. I think as a director of amateur scouting or director of player personnel, Dorion would be among the upper echelon in the league; he'd be ok as an AGM, but as a head GM he's in way over his head.

The Zibanejad trade looks like a disaster right now, but Brass was a known clutch performer, and played a huge part in the 2017 run, and we were able to later flip him for an elite goalie prospect and first round pick just in time before he went into full decline. Still though, Zibanejad was my favorite player as a Sen, I bought his jersey, I had complete faith he'd develop into a competent number one center, and it stings to see what he's doing in New York now.

The Condon trade was really solid. The Wingels and and Stålberg trades were good "win now without sacrificing too much" moves. I've always been a big Burrows fan, so I guess I was the black sheep in not minding giving up Dahlén for him. As it stands, Burrows played a useful role in the 2017 run, and Dahlén's stock has fallen anyway. Tom Pyatt was added strictly at the behest of the coach.

Dorion turned Lazar into a second round pick which he turned into Formenton. Could end up being a good move, depending what happens with Formenton.

And then comes the crux of everything, the Duchene trade. We all saw this past season just how good Duchene could be, and if we had gone on another long playoff run with him, the narrative would be completely different. So the strange thing is, the failure in this trade was not in assessing the assets involved in the trade, but rather Dorion's failure in assessing his own team.

But then you have to wonder, how did he f*** up this assessment so bad? And the answer seems obvious to me: Guy Boucher had coached that 2017 team to be vastly better than the sum of its parts.

Who knows what the hell happened from there. It was a complete mess, from the locker room stuff to the ownership stuff, and I tend to give Dorion a little bit of slack with the subsequent "rebuild" trades, knowing he was put in a really difficult situation given the circumstances.

Still though, he has to be held ultimately accountable for the general direction of the team during his tenure there, and overall his résumé as a head GM doesn't look good. Unless he does some really remarkable things over the next year or two, he will not and should not be the GM of this team going forward. But for now, drafting is his forté, and that's our most important need for the next year or two, so we might as well let him run with it at least until after next year's draft.

When his time in Ottawa is done, he'll easily find jobs in secondary management roles (ideally DAS or DPP), but he won't ever be a head GM again.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I never saw this public statement, and I try to watch every coach and GM media I can. I did see the outraged comments by coach and players. If you could point me to this statement, I would appreciate it.

I'm really surprised so many people here hate on Boucher so much. I thought he was a hell of a coach. And twice now he's come into an underqualified team, and taken them to the conference finals. Honestly, in my opinion, perhaps Dorion's biggest mistake as GM in Ottawa was letting Boucher go.

While I'm at it, I might as well put in my two cents on Dorion. When it came to Bryan Murray, I was an unceasing apologist and defender to the last days. Sens fans talked about him in a vacuum, like we only had his moves in Ottawa to judge from, while to me he had a myriad of goodwill built up from his days in Detroit, Florida and Anaheim. And he did a lot of good things in Ottawa, as well as some not so good, but the good far outweighed the bad.

Dorion doesn't have a long track record like Murray did. I certainly don't consider myself a fan of Dorion. Think of it like a really good third liner being forced to play top minutes on a bad team. Maybe he can still be an effective second liner, but would be way over his head on a first line. I think as a director of amateur scouting or director of player personnel, Dorion would be among the upper echelon in the league; he'd be ok as an AGM, but as a head GM he's in way over his head.

The Zibanejad trade looks like a disaster right now, but Brass was a known clutch performer, and played a huge part in the 2017 run, and we were able to later flip him for an elite goalie prospect and first round pick just in time before he went into full decline. Still though, Zibanejad was my favorite player as a Sen, I bought his jersey, I had complete faith he'd develop into a competent number one center, and it stings to see what he's doing in New York now.

The Condon trade was really solid. The Wingels and and Stålberg trades were good "win now without sacrificing too much" moves. I've always been a big Burrows fan, so I guess I was the black sheep in not minding giving up Dahlén for him. As it stands, Burrows played a useful role in the 2017 run, and Dahlén's stock has fallen anyway. Tom Pyatt was added strictly at the behest of the coach.

Dorion turned Lazar into a second round pick which he turned into Formenton. Could end up being a good move, depending what happens with Formenton.

And then comes the crux of everything, the Duchene trade. We all saw this past season just how good Duchene could be, and if we had gone on another long playoff run with him, the narrative would be completely different. So the strange thing is, the failure in this trade was not in assessing the assets involved in the trade, but rather Dorion's failure in assessing his own team.

But then you have to wonder, how did he **** up this assessment so bad? And the answer seems obvious to me: Guy Boucher had coached that 2017 team to be vastly better than the sum of its parts.

Who knows what the hell happened from there. It was a complete mess, from the locker room stuff to the ownership stuff, and I tend to give Dorion a little bit of slack with the subsequent "rebuild" trades, knowing he was put in a really difficult situation given the circumstances.

Still though, he has to be held ultimately accountable for the general direction of the team during his tenure there, and overall his résumé as a head GM doesn't look good. Unless he does some really remarkable things over the next year or two, he will not and should not be the GM of this team going forward. But for now, drafting is his forté, and that's our most important need for the next year or two, so we might as well let him run with it at least until after next year's draft.

When his time in Ottawa is done, he'll easily find jobs in secondary management roles (ideally DAS or DPP), but he won't ever be a head GM again.

Good post

Looking at the bits we have right now, I’m wondering whether we’ll be looking at this awesome team in a few years and ultimately praising what PD was able to build here.

In the end, the EK core team was Murray’s team, and what we’re seeing right now is ultimately PDs vision. It will be a few years yet before we see what its parts will become.

The wild card for me is always the budget. If we have room to grow, then things could look great, especially if we’re able to add a few more top prospects in the next two years, we really are being built the right way in my opinion (net out, massive character + skill core to add skill to). If we can’t afford to pay for the core and eventually get close to the cap as promised, then we are truly doomed until new ownership arrives.

I was never completely sold in the last core, especially after the year following the ECF run. But I am seriously enthused with this core of kids right now, so I’m willing to extend a trial period to see if EM will keep his word to his sponsors and business partners. It’s self serving, as I want to see this group make it, if it turns out that he puts his money back in, and this squad develops into what I think it can, I’ll have a ton of praise for what PD was able to build.

In the end, the team in the ice entertaining me is what matters most to me.

 

[BatherSeason]

Should fire the guy that handed him that contract that everyone knew was a mistake before it was even signed.

Who was that guy that signed him and who was the guy that signed his checks??

 

[Samsquanch]

I think its foolish to look at things in such a black and white way. This "aging core" becomes the secondary scoring, and players like Chabot and Tkachuk step up to the plate. Though players like Karlsson and Stone most assuredly have at least another good 5 years of Hockey each; to not hold onto these kinds of players is definitely a financial thing.

We're talking about 8 year long contracts here - those young guys you mentioned also need to get paid eventually, maybe as soon as their 2nd contracts (ie see Matthews/Marner). In 3 or 4 years you cant afford to pay your "primary" guys like Chabot, Tkachuk, Batherson, White, ect. while you are already committing 35 million to a core of Karlsson/Stone/Duchene/Dzingel to be your secondary scorers. That would be an equally miserable situation to the one we just witnessed.

We wanted to lock up a core of guys "Chicago style" (big $/long term), but the notable difference was that those actually guys won the cup and deserved to be kept together long term, and to be paid top dollar. Our core group of guys was a huge mystery box that had both overachieved and underachieved, and Im sure only HF Sens believed that it was a core that could be a consistent contender. The rest of the hockey world was not nearly as gullible though.

Anyways, Anisimov is a great pickup imo, and his contract actually fits in beautifully with our current team makeup. I for one am excited that management is actually following through with the promise of a total rebuild - which was the only way for this franchise to grow imo. A retool wasnt going to work.

Sometimes you have to take two steps back before you can start going forward again.

 

[JD1]

Karlsson was not 100%, Johhny Oduya was his D partner, the team lost Methot & MacArthur, Anderson was terrible, Cody Ceci played more than any other dman, Tom Pyatt played more than Mike Hoffman, Guy Boucher was the coach....should I go on?

The team was horribly coached and terribly mismanaged a year after almost getting to the Stanley Cup Finals. Blaming the core players is wrong.

The drama in here never ends.

All of what you highlighted is true

What's also true is the same cast of characters constantly whining about it never let up during that run that it's a mirage, that the advanced stats sucked, that we got lucky to run in to injured opponents,that it was based on unsustainable goaltending and so on.

Frankly, based on the bitching from two years ago there should be a bunch of ecstatic guys because that team was jettisoned

 

[stempniaksen]

The drama in here never ends.

All of what you highlighted is true

What's also true is the same cast of characters constantly whining about it never let up during that run that it's a mirage, that the advanced stats sucked, that we got lucky torun in to injured opponents,that it was based on unsustainable goaltending and so on.

Frankly, based on the itching from two years ago there should be a bunch of ecstatic guys becausetgatteam was jettisoned

That's one way of saying "a generational performance from the only superstar in franchise history"

 

[GrantLemons]

Chicago also had financial reasons/pressure to do this deal. If you can get a better player plus save money, that is usually something to be commended.

Chicago's motivations were cap related. Ours are broke owner related.

I'm just saying it feels like Pierre's only motivation to make moves is to acquire guys that have salary < cap hit. Is this helping him gain rapport with Eugene since "the next 6 months will be crucial for hockey ops to get their act together"? Or is "getting their act together" just code for "get the player salary down as low as you can but also hit the cap floor".

It's tiring, man. It sucks watching the rest of the teams operate and make purely hockey transactions to improve their team while we sit here and discuss lateral moves that were driven solely by real dollars, and not cap.

 

[BatherSeason]

The drama in here never ends.

Someone is creating stories about the player just traded, not sure I am the dramatic one.

 

[Samsquanch]

That's one way of saying "a generational performance from the only superstar in franchise history"

How old are you like 8?

We had 3 superstars at once and they made up the best line in the league for 2-3 years straight. Ill give you a hint, they named that line after a food they serve at your school on Fridays.

Karlsson was the biggest star that we've ever had sure, but thats some revisionist history at its finest right there...

 

[JD1]

They placed him on waivers and make a public statement saying he was being sent a message. I am not sure how you can mix that up for anything else.
That happened. Your made up story did not.
If you need more to back up what actually went down... other than it happening , well what can anyone ever say

Personally I think the message being sent was that he needed to up his game.

I follow this team pretty closely and there was lots of junk out there about locker room issues. Personally I have never seen anything that suggests there were locker room issues with Smith....other than you I guess

 

[JD1]

Someone is creating stories about the player just traded, not sure I am the dramatic one.

You cherry picked the post

You are at the front edge critiquing back then and now

 

[Micklebot]

The drama in here never ends.

All of what you highlighted is true

What's also true is the same cast of characters constantly whining about it never let up during that run that it's a mirage, that the advanced stats sucked, that we got lucky torun in to injured opponents,that it was based on unsustainable goaltending and so on.

Frankly, based on the itching from two years ago there should be a bunch of ecstatic guys becausetgatteam was jettisoned

Thats an interesting take. I recall peoples issue with the team and why they thought it was a mirage being coaching and a lack of supporting cast (4th line was awful and we needed to upgrade the D beyond Karlsson and Methot).

Not sure how you get to people should be happy by gutting the team of the players people were happy with and not really addressing the thinga they weren't... I guess Boucher is gone and the 4th line could be better, but thats one step forward two steps back.

 

[stempniaksen]

How old are you like 8?

We had 3 superstars at once and they made up the best line in the league for 2-3 years straight. Ill give you a hint, they named that line after a food they serve at your school on Fridays.

Karlsson was the biggest star that we've ever had sure, but thats some revisionist history at its finest right there...

No need for the personal attack, it's entirely possible that we just have differing opinions on what a superstar is.

Alfredsson, Spezza and Heatley were all fantastic players for this franchise. Between the three of them they have less personal hardware than EK by himself though, which puts them a tier below, imo.

 

[GrantLemons]

They placed him on waivers and make a public statement saying he was being sent a message. I am not sure how you can mix that up for anything else.
That happened. Your made up story did not.
If you need more to back up what actually went down... other than it happening , well what can anyone ever say

Sending a message would be sitting his ass in the press box for a few games. Putting him on waivers is trying to dump his salary for nothing.

Why would you "send a message" by putting a guy on waivers, when he could be claimed from you by any team? The message is what, "We need you to be better, so we're going to waive you and might lose you. That'll learn you.". I guess they'll just toss Brady on waivers as well if he needs a stern "message" delivered?

Taking anything the org says at face value after all of the bullshit that's happened over the last couple of years is kind of pathetic tbh.

 

[BatherSeason]

Personally I think the message being sent was that he needed to up his game.

The coach had him on the first line the very next night, the guy who watched him practice and play every day didn't think of it as a performance issue.

This is Dorion after Smith cleared:
"Zack is a high-character person, he's the heart and soul of that dressing room, but at the same time it was performance related," explained Dorion. "We knew that if we let the team know we won't accept what happened last year, including how Zack played, that, hopefully, the message will be passed through the room."

So they punished the guy for his performance months prior when all the org kept telling the fanbase was to turn the page and get a new girlfriend?? He and the team had already played half of the preseason and went through the whole training camp without any hint of this coming whatsoever. He was also slated to play on the top line by the coach at the time he was waived. Great message sent Pierre.

 

[Samsquanch]

No need for the personal attack, it's entirely possible that we just have differing opinions on what asuperstar is.

Alfredsson, Spezza and Heatley were all fantastic players for this franchise. Between the three of them they have less personal hardware than EK by himself though, which puts them a tier below.

Came off a little harsh but it was actually a joke, sorry about that.

But I just dont see how you can argue against those guys being superstars in their prime together as the Pizza line. It was by far the best line in hockey, and I just cant see how at the very least 2 of them were not considered superstars during that time. The decline into a terrible hockey player and person aside, if you were old enough to appreciate it at the time you would know that Dany Heatley was an absolute MEGA star for us during his tenure here. No question about it that he was a top echelon caliber of star.

 

[EasyMoneySniper]

The coach had him on the first line the very next night, the guy who watched him practice and play every day didn't think of it as a performance issue.

I think Boucher and Dorion had a rift in their relationship after 2018. Both had some odd comments to the media. It's possible Boucher just put Smith on the top line just to give Dorion the middle finger.

 

[supsens]

Sending a message would be sitting his ass in the press box for a few games. Putting him on waivers is trying to dump his salary for nothing.

Why would you "send a message" by putting a guy on waivers, when he could be claimed from you by any team? The message is what, "We need you to be better, so we're going to waive you and might lose you. That'll learn you.". I guess they'll just toss Brady on waivers as well if he needs a stern "message" delivered?

Taking anything the org says at face value after all of the bull**** that's happened over the last couple of years is kind of pathetic tbh.

Seems like a serious message does it not? It was a get lost we don't want you statement,

 

[BonkTastic]

I wonder how our lockerroom issues got fixed by subtracting Zack Smith and adding Anisimov.

It didn't.

Zack Smith is like... The opposite of what locker room problems are. He's a consummate professional, class act, and great human being. He's exactly what you want when you talk about "intangibles" and "good locker room guy".

I mean... He's not a good hockey player. Skill-wise. Like flat out not good. But the last thing wrong with him is locker room issues.

 

[JD1]

Thats an interesting take. I recall peoples issue with the team and why they thought it was a mirage being coaching and a lack of supporting cast (4th line was awful and we needed to upgrade the D beyond Karlsson and Methot).

Not sure how you get to people should be happy by gutting the team of the players people were happy with and not really addressing the thinga they weren't... I guess Boucher is gone and the 4th line could be better, but thats one step forward two steps back.

It's the same take I've had for several years Micklebot. It's there to see, you just don't choose to see it. In fact you participate in it.

It's just constant whining. Doesn't matter what happens, whine

That team was crucified in here two years ago. This board couldn't even be proud of a good run. All the things I mentioned were constantly brought up.

If the criticism were valid then, you'd think there'd be some positive vibes about that cast of characters being moved on from.

But here we are reminiscing about the good old days.

I was at work yesterday. Then I played hockey. Got home about 8. Lots of discussion at hockey about the Smith trade. I started thinking on my drive home about the thread that would be here about that trade. It is obviously an upgrade from a hockey view. But I had the over under at the 4th post before I'd read a negative comment about it. And I nailed it. 4th post. Boom.

This place is what it is. Fortunately I still play hockey a few times a week and the hockey conversation has a different tone to it

 

[stempniaksen]

Came off a little harsh but it was actually a joke, sorry about that.

But I just dont see how you can argue against those guys being superstars in their prime together as the Pizza line. It was by far the best line in hockey, and I just cant see how at the very least 2 of them were not considered superstars during that time. The decline into a terrible hockey player and person aside, if you were old enough to appreciate it at the time you would know that Dany Heatley was an absolute MEGA star for us during his tenure here. No question that he was an upper echelon star.

Erik Karlsson (not even 30):

- 2 Norris Trophies
- 4 1st team All-Star

Daniel Alfredsson:

- 1 Calder Trophy
- 1 1st team All-Star
- 1 2nd team All-Star

Dany Heatley:

- 1 Calder Trophy
- 2 1st team All-Star
- 1 2nd team All-Star

Jason Spezza:

- No personal hardware or accolades

I'm old enough to remember the PIZZA line (heck, I'm old enough to have been posting here at the time). I wasn't using hyperbole when I was stating that Karlsson (before he's even turned 30) has more personal accolades than that entire line combined. I'm not taking anything away from those three players, who were clearly all star players at some point in their careers (and 3 of the best to ever put on a Senators sweater). I just think Karlsson is THAT much better than any of them.

 

[BigRig4]

I'm just happy this means L Brown will start in Belleville

 

[bert]

Agreed!

This is why it’s important when Burrows and Andy both allude to serious issues in our locker room it’s best for fans to listen instead of thinking it was all just made up by Dorion so he could trade people,

...and those are just two players who were in the room, to go along with ex players, second hand info about players like Hoff, media personalities with first hand experience, court reports, etc...

Of course it should also be noted that one mans opinion is just that, have other people talked about his lack of character? I’m curious as I’ve read both.

Either way this is a short term player to keep the kids developing slowly, and having to earn their NHL spots, and it moves in another extremely polarizing player. Say what you will about grit and character, but these types of players rarely become whipping boys like smith had. Nice move for the team, fans, and smith, irrespective of AA.

When Dorion says he is trying to re-sign the player then says there is locker room issues once they leave which one is it? The guy has lied over and over again, I know players that have played for him and can confirm he is a snake. If you are going to take someones word for it then maybe look into the persons past and consistent behaviour.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Would be a lot easier to let go of the BS of the past if there were any hope of the new guys getting paid and kept. I honestly do not understand how there's still optimism on that front.