Around the NHL XLI: Let Us Never Again Speak of Last Season

[silverfish]

Trouba tells Winnipeg to get stuffed.

Huge news that's getting lost in the fray here.

I'd make a very big push for him if I was NYR.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Now Toews is better than Malkin

Jeebus

Look, Toews is very good, but he's not Mark Messier.

It's amazing how Toews is the higest paid player in the league

 

[haohmaru]

Now Toews is better than Malkin

Jeebus

Look, Toews is very good, but he's not Mark Messier.

I'd take Toews over Malkin if I had a choice when starting a team every day and twice on Sunday. There's a lot more to being a 1C than points. But there are at least 4 other guys I'd take over Malkin too.

 

[haohmaru]

Huge news that's getting lost in the fray here.

I'd make a very big push for him if I was NYR.

So is Boston, NJ, Detroit, etc....

Trouba will cost us Skjei and a starting forward at the very least. Probably more. Not saying I wouldn't do it, but he's not coming cheap and easy.

 

[Cassano]

Keith is one of 13 defensemen in history with multiple Norris trophies.

He's one of 9 defensemen with a Conn Smythe.

He's one of 6 defensemen with multiple Stanley Cups and multiple Gold Medals.

He's a borderline generational talent.

The fact that Pronger and Chara are in the conversation but Keith isn't is just HF at it's finest.

Pronger you could make a case for I suppose because of his Hart. There's just no way anywhere on planet Earth that Chara is better than Keith.

There's no ****ing way Stevens is better either. Stevens was never at any point in his career the best defenseman in the league, as evidenced by his empty shelf of Norris trophies. Not even close either. MacInnis was much better, Bourque was much better, Leetch was much better, Lidstrom was much better.

Pronger was most certainly better, he just happened to be in the same era in his prime as god himself, Nicklas Lidstrom.

I think Keith is better than Chara though, most definitely.

 

[Machinehead]

The Devils wouldn't have won a single Cup without Stevens.He's in the conversation with all these guys. To say he's "not close either" is just patently false. The guy went to 15 all star games and won the Conn Smythe.

Oh and I'm sure the Blackhawks are just raking in hardware without Keith. But I forget that this is HF and only Toews gets credit for that team.

Screw Kane who was probably the best player in the league last year. Screw Crawford who statistically has been a top 5 goalie for like four years now. Screw Hossa. Screw Sharp. Screw Hjalmarsson. Screw Seab... well, actually he sucks.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I think we have to go after Trouba even if it means a slight over payment.

At what point do we stop overpaying like drunken politicians?

Overpaid for MSL with two 1st round picks
Overpaid for 1.25 years of Yandle with 1st round pick and Duclair.
Overpaid for Etem and pick 41 with Hagelin and pick 59
Overpaid for 25 games of E Staal with two 2nd round picks and Saarela.

 

[Infinitum Vitae*]

New thread up guys.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Keith is very good but so was Stevens. Stevens was good enough for me to literally hate. That only happens if a guy is really good. While Keith is very good I'm not sure what he did better than Stevens? Offense? Only after Stevens was around 30. Defense? Definitely not. Hitting? Not even close. Stevens also had his share of recognition with all star games, Conn Smythe, etc.

 

[Machinehead]

Keith is very good but so was Stevens. Stevens was good enough for me to literally hate. That only happens if a guy is really good. While Keith is very good I'm not sure what he did better than Stevens? Offense? Defense? Hitting? Stevens also had his share of recognition with all star games, Conn Smythe, etc.

He does pretty much everything better outside of trying to murder people.

Oh and unlike Stevens at least he's clearly the best D on his own team.

 

[NickyFotiu]

He does pretty much everything better outside of trying to murder people.

Oh and unlike Stevens at least he's clearly the best D on his own team.

Stevens was better offensively till he was around 30.
Stevens is way better defensively.
Stevens could also dominate games with his physical side where Keith has almost become a guy that never throws a hit.
Stevens was the best Dman on his team for the majority of his years in NJ. Rod Langway was an outstanding 2 time Norris winning Dman when Stevens came in to the NHL.

 

[Machinehead]

If we're going to argue that Stevens is better offensively then there's no point. That's truly laughable.

Stevens was putting up comparable numbers in a lacrosse league to what Keith is putting up in a soccer league.

 

[NickyFotiu]

If we're going to argue that Stevens is better offensively then there's no point. That's truly laughable.

Stevens was putting up comparable numbers in a lacrosse league to what Keith is putting up in a soccer league.

It is laughable that you think that is laughable. Stevens was a very strong offensive player when he was younger for a dman. Stevens led his team in points while playing great defense.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

At what point do we stop overpaying like drunken politicians?

Overpaid for MSL with two 1st round picks
Overpaid for 1.25 years of Yandle with 1st round pick and Duclair.
Overpaid for Etem and pick 41 with Hagelin and pick 59
Overpaid for 25 games of E Staal with two 2nd round picks and Saarela.

Hagelin was a cap dump and Yandle was not overpaid. The other 2, I agree with

 

[Machinehead]

It is laughable that you think that is laughable. Stevens was a very strong offensive player when he was younger for a dman. Stevens led his team in points while playing great defense.

Stevens was a very good offensive player when the league was scoring eight goals a game. If he was around now he'd be lucky to hit 30 like he was in the dead puck era.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Stevens was a very good offensive player when the league was scoring eight goals a game. If he was around now he'd be lucky to hit 30 like he was in the dead puck era.

You can say that but I respectfully and totally disagree. They have adjusted stats out there. I'm sure Stevens was still a better goal scorer (before 30) even after adjustment for league scoring than Keith is today. Stevens had a very accurate slapshot and snapshot.

 

[Machinehead]

Yeah he had a better slapshot. So does Weber who is another player romanticized because of the big man fetish.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Yeah he had a better slapshot. So does Weber who is another player romanticized because of the big man fetish.

I believe you are both way underrating Stevens and also overrating Keith but you have a right to your opinion. Can you please posts all the Dman rankings from neutral observers that have Keith as a top 15 Dman and also ranked ahead of Stevens? Thanks in advance.

 

[Tawnos]

I believe you are both way underrating Stevens and also overrating Keith but you have a right to your opinion. Can you please posts all the Dman rankings from neutral observers that have Keith as a top 15 Dman and also ranked ahead of Stevens? Thanks in advance.

There is a thread on HoH about how Keith is ascending the all time rankings. Just search Duncan Keith. Consensus was maxing out around 20

 

[NickyFotiu]

There is a thread on HoH about how Keith is ascending the all time rankings. Just search Duncan Keith. Consensus was maxing out around 20

Thank you. I should have been clearer. By neutral observer I was speaking about publications/sites like TSN, SI, etc more than a thread of HF.

 

[NYR94]

There is a thread on HoH about how Keith is ascending the all time rankings. Just search Duncan Keith. Consensus was maxing out around 20

Interesting. Was Keith highly touted entering the NHL? I remember him being a young D on a bad Chicago team coming out of the 2004-2005 lockout but I never remember him being hyped to the levels of achievement that he's reached as an NHLer.

 

[Crease]

Interesting. Was Keith highly touted entering the NHL? I remember him being a young D on a bad Chicago team coming out of the 2004-2005 lockout but I never remember him being hyped to the levels of achievement that he's reached as an NHLer.

Not really. Pre-draft he was seen as a 2nd to 4th round skilled small guy. And two years after he was drafted, Hockey's Future had him the 19th best prospect in Chicago's system. Really not much hype. Hell of a career so far, though. And those playoff performances just add to his growing legacy.

 

[Tawnos]

Thank you. I should have been clearer. By neutral observer I was speaking about publications/sites like TSN, SI, etc more than a thread of HF.

I actually think the history board is just as good as those publications for those lists. They're super methodical and not just anyone can vote. The board as a whole I full of very knowledgeable people. If you haven't browsed around on there, I suggest it.

They haven't done a top D list since 2012.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I actually think the history board is just as good as those publications for those lists. They're super methodical and not just anyone can vote. The board as a whole I full of very knowledgeable people. If you haven't browsed around on there, I suggest it.

They haven't done a top D list since 2012.

That is possible. The main problem I have with soley going by a HF thread is that many HF posters are too young to have seen guys like Stevens play in their primes so sometimes the views are more like educated guesses than actual observations.

 

[haohmaru]

Oh and I'm sure the Blackhawks are just raking in hardware without Keith. But I forget that this is HF and only Toews gets credit for that team.

Screw Kane who was probably the best player in the league last year. Screw Crawford who statistically has been a top 5 goalie for like four years now. Screw Hossa. Screw Sharp. Screw Hjalmarsson. Screw Seab... well, actually he sucks.

The difference here is I'm not saying that Keith "isn't even close" to Stevens and you said exactly that.

This is less of me not giving Keith his due than it is about your assessment of Stevens.