NHL Around the NHL VII - Blues sign head coach Craig Berube to three-year contract
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BigBadBruins7708
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AngryMilkcrates
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If your definition of a HoF hockey player is numbers. Then tell me which numbers are required.
Saying a great hockey player must have x game, x goals, x pts per is equal to saying "To be a good human being you have to be earning x per year"
Very shallow thinking, IMO.
I remember when Guy was playing. Every year he was a factor on whatever team he was on. Leadership, shut down the leagues top lines, consistant.
Sort of like a certain player on Boston we want to get another Selke.
If Bergeron only gets 18 next year but is a +40 and a defensive beast. Does that make him not worthy of a Selke consideration?
Saying a great hockey player must have x game, x goals, x pts per is equal to saying "To be a good human being you have to be earning x per year"
Very shallow thinking, IMO.
I remember when Guy was playing. Every year he was a factor on whatever team he was on. Leadership, shut down the leagues top lines, consistant.
Sort of like a certain player on Boston we want to get another Selke.
If Bergeron only gets 18 next year but is a +40 and a defensive beast. Does that make him not worthy of a Selke consideration?
AngryMilkcrates
End of an Era
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Make copies and put them in jails or prisons as a "Scared Straight" campaign.
Z is watching....
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- Sep 22, 2011
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I'm no fan of Guy Carbonneau because he may be the biggest douche bag in the history of the NHL. The very definition of a filthy Hab, and the fact he wasn't dirty enough to make Ulf/Claude status makes me hate him even more. He was even mediocre at being hate-able.
Bergeron's numbers are far superior to Carbonneau's, all while playing in a far more defensive structured era and he was every bit as good defensively. Carbonneau was no more then a support player for his 3 cups, he was far from the key ingredient. It's a joke that guys like him are in yet far superior players like Middleton, Dave Taylor and Steve Larmer aren't in.
Bruinaura
Resident Cookie Monster
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Can we change the title so it doesn't include the name of that whiny crybaby? 
Bruinaura
Resident Cookie Monster
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BigBadBruins7708
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Carbonneau's career highs, despite playing in the 80s are 26 goals and 56 points and was a career 0.51 ppg
Bergeron currently has 170 more career points in 300 fewer games while playing in a significantly lower scoring era and has a career 0.79 ppg
No comparison
CharasLazyWrister
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This is just a gigantic strawman analogy. If you think of it that way, of course people’s thinking seems shallow. But even if you disagree with it, I don’t think there’s anything particularly objectionable about someone setting statistical standards for what they think is HOF worthy.
I am in sales. I am not nearly a top performer within my company. But I am generally easy to work with and do what I need to do to make a decent living. I also give the company a good name since I am probably the least “pushy” salesperson a lot of folks have come across. I help other employees out as often as possible.
That’s all great, but it’d be crazy for me to expect some sort of recognition as a great salesperson. At the end of the day, some things are simply about individual performance and visible contribution on paper. I’m not saying hard lines should be set for who makes it and who doesn’t, but the more subjectivity that gets introduced into something like the HOF induction process...you’ll soon find that there are suddenly a lot of past players seemingly missing.
Maybe that’s not a perfect analogy, but I think it’s quite a bit closer than yours.
AngryMilkcrates
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I guess this just comes down to world-view.
Some of the most successful and lauded people I know personally are also some of the worst humans beings I've met.
Inversely, SOme of the pluggers in crap jobs who are living paycheck to paycheck are some of the best human beings I know. They make significant contributions to the lives of people around them and are IMO worthy of the accolaids that the previously mentioned people get.
Because of that, I firmly believe a HoF player can be someone without eye poping numbers. There is more to a hockey player than stats, human beings are more than numbers. Contributing to the lives of the players around you via leadership or just being there for players in need is laudable. If you make a career out of that then yes, I do believe your peers so recognize that.
Some of the most successful and lauded people I know personally are also some of the worst humans beings I've met.
Inversely, SOme of the pluggers in crap jobs who are living paycheck to paycheck are some of the best human beings I know. They make significant contributions to the lives of people around them and are IMO worthy of the accolaids that the previously mentioned people get.
Because of that, I firmly believe a HoF player can be someone without eye poping numbers. There is more to a hockey player than stats, human beings are more than numbers. Contributing to the lives of the players around you via leadership or just being there for players in need is laudable. If you make a career out of that then yes, I do believe your peers so recognize that.
- Sep 22, 2011
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But we are talking about a mediocre player who was also one of the most loathsome human beings around. There are no "intangibles" about Guy Carbonneau that suddenly launch his generic numbers to HHOF status. He had a slightly longer, slightly better career than Steve Kasper, and nobody mentions Hall of Fame and Steve Kasper in the same breath.
CharasLazyWrister
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Carbonneau was loathsome? What’s the story on that? I’ve never heard anyone say that about him.
trenton1
Bergeron for Hart
At this point, Bergeron should have his waiting period waived.
- Sep 22, 2011
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Dirty, diving, wouldn't fight. Lots of stick work. Our own sarge88 put him at the very top of the "Hab Hating" list, even above Nilan. Here's a quote:
- Jan 29, 2003
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- Jan 29, 2003
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Wait....I just scrolled back in this thread.....
Guy Carbonneau is going to be inducted in the HOF?
Utterly ridiculous!
He was a one dimensional player who wasn't even outstanding at the one dimension!
If he didn't play for the Habs nobody would consider him for his team's HOF, never mind the big one.
Guy Carbonneau is going to be inducted in the HOF?
Utterly ridiculous!
He was a one dimensional player who wasn't even outstanding at the one dimension!
If he didn't play for the Habs nobody would consider him for his team's HOF, never mind the big one.
- Sep 22, 2011
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Sadly or positively...that thread may have been my finest moment here.
Not a bad one to hang your hat on, though. My favorite (although hard to choose):
LouJersey
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Zubov was phenomenal. No issue with him getting in. Rangers trading him to Pitt w Nedved for Ulf and Luc was terrible. Pit dealing him for Hatcher wasn't so hot either
BigBadBruins7708
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- Mar 8, 2011
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Chief Nine
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I'm not surprised after hearing about what he had to go through just to get ready for games and practices as he says in the letter:
"Since I had my hip surgery a couple of years ago, I've been showing up two hours before every practice and three hours before every game to work out my hip. Even at night, whether it was the night before a game or even a night off, there I was rolling out, doing strengthening exercises. My entire life revolved around recovery, strengthening and making sure I was ready to go the next day."
They were talking about this on NHL Radio a couple of weeks ago. That's a lot to go through just to get out on the ice
Rubber Biscuit
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Agree, not at all surprised at this. Especially not at his age. H'es made his pile, put his body through the wringer for years, time to sit back and enjoy the life he worked so hard to get.
LouJersey
Registered User
Vancouver gets hit with a cap recapture penalty
No cup and a 3 mil cap hit per season next 3 years nine seasons later....the gift that keeps on giving.
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