Around the NHL Summer 2021

[Bench]

With the Cap only going up by $1M per year for the next 3, this is pretty untenable for the Oilers, especially with Draisaitl's contract coming due in before the big Cap increase in 5 years.

For real. They are on a timeline.

I don't think it's hopeless for them at all, as some imply. I still think they can win a Cup because there's no way I'm going to entirely count out McDavid.

But I'm not exactly a fan of how Holland is trying exploit that window of opportunity.

 

[golffuul]

For real. They are on a timeline.

I don't think it's hopeless for them at all, as some imply. I still think they can win a Cup because there's no way I'm going to entirely count out McDavid.

But I'm not exactly a fan of how Holland is trying exploit that window of opportunity.

Especially since they still had another year of contract left. I would have waited until Nurse proved he could repeat his effort and then give him that extension, in January.

Granted he was going to UFA after this coming season. So I can see the issue for Kenny, but...Kenny.....please.

 

[Bench]

Especially since they still had another year of contract left. I would have waited until Nurse proved he could repeat his effort and then give him that extension, in January.

Granted he was going to UFA after this coming season. So I can see the issue for Kenny, but...Kenny.....please.

I'm sure Nurse's agent was saying they had to lock him up or there would be issues. If I'm Nurse I don't want to play on the final year of that deal without a commitment. That part I understand. I especially understand it now knowing that over $70 million dollars was at stake. Like holy hell. That's such a life changing value I can't even imagine.

What I don't understand is paying Nurse that top 5 defender money. But I guess Holland looked back at his time in Detroit and realized a guy like this may not come along again for him so whatever it takes.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

For real. They are on a timeline.

I don't think it's hopeless for them at all, as some imply. I still think they can win a Cup because there's no way I'm going to entirely count out McDavid.

But I'm not exactly a fan of how Holland is trying exploit that window of opportunity.

I think it looks that way, personally. The guy who scored 2 points per game in the regular season was completely shut down in the postseason. Until the league starts calling the playoffs like they do the regular season, or until McDavid learns to play through the shit then I don't see that team having much postseason success.

Also, look at their defense again. The closest thing they have to a defensive specialist on their team is Cody Ceci. And they're locked into that top 4 for 2 seasons, and 3 of them beyond that. I honestly don't think it's much better than Detroit's defense in 2021-22. The big difference is that they'll be uplifted by Draisaitl and McDavid's scoring. In my opinion it's in the bottom third of the league.

Then there's the obvious blunder of having skipped out on Wallstedt for Bourgault, who looks like a fine player himself by the way, but doesn't fill that gaping organizational need for a true starter. Wallstedt could probably have played for Edmonton in 1 or 2 years and given them affordable goaltending as either a quality backup or 1b starter whenever he comes over as a rookie. Now they're going to have a giant question mark after Koskinen leaves.

2022 NHL Free Agents Tracker

That's the list of pending 2022 UFA goalies. After losing Koskinen , the 1 mil cap increase and paying for raises the Oilers will have 2 to 3 million for a goalie. Who amongst that group is a quality 1A starter for that price?

It's not hard to imagine the oilers devolving from a middle of the pack 4-5-6 seed to a bubble 7-8-out team.

 

[golffuul]

I'm sure Nurse's agent was saying they had to lock him up or there would be issues. If I'm Nurse I don't want to play on the final year of that deal without a commitment. That part I understand. I especially understand it now knowing that over $70 million dollars was at stake. Like holy hell. That's such a life changing value I can't even imagine.

What I don't understand is paying Nurse that top 5 defender money. But I guess Holland looked back at his time in Detroit and realized a guy like this may not come along again for him so whatever it takes.

Definitely a "lock 'em up or lose 'em" kind of mentality for Kenny, that's for sure. He's still got Post-Traumatic-Lidstrom-Disorder, for sure. I've heard the cure for that is to stop kicking tires...I could be wrong

 

[ricky0034]

Kenny does love his max year contracts. Usually that kind of term drops the cap hit somewhat, but, uh... Well not here.

For example, I thought the 8 year RNH deal was fantastic for the Oilers. Sure it's long, but he's making a really reasonable cap hit during the most critical years of the Oilers window. Very savvy move, Ken!

They got RNH locked up for less than Hyman. Let that sink in.

I think Nurse is a fine defender, he's very good, but he just got a contract like he's in the top 5 and the Oilers cap is going to absolutely implode in 4-5 years just like the Wings cap did.

The trick will be if they can win that Cup before it happens.

to put it into perspective the only Defensemen in the league that have a higher cap hit than him now are Karlsson/Doughty/Jones/Werenski

Jones/Werenski are only like 300k or so more and are also new deals and Karlsson/Doughty were like....hall of fame level guys

Especially since they still had another year of contract left. I would have waited until Nurse proved he could repeat his effort and then give him that extension, in January.

Granted he was going to UFA after this coming season. So I can see the issue for Kenny, but...Kenny.....please.

whole different universe of player and contract but it kinda reminds me of Holland rushing to get Abdelkader signed to his big deal as soon as he could

same concept of it being like are you really worried about having to pay him more than that even if he doesn't regress? really? you should be getting some sort of discount if you're jumping the gun like that with a long term deal after a player just had a production spike and hasn't proven he can sustain it

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

For a fun read, check this baby out.

Ken Holland's baffling off-season

And this.

 

[Winger98]

The Tampa debate was if paying Stamkos, a legitimate 40 goal scorer, was worth keeping with incredible talents like Kucherov and Point. Tampa also has the best defender and best goalie in the league, so that helps.

The quality of guys, outside of the big two, isn't anywhere near what Tampa assembled and they are stuffing their coffers with middling guys like Ceci, Hyman, and Kassian.

It's Ericsson, Abdelkader, and Helm all over again.

No, the Tampa debate was if they had cap trouble at all. Two cups later...eh, not really. They found a way to work around it just as everyone should have known they would. So will Edmonton. So will insert Team X.

Tampa has cap problems on a championship caliber roster.

Edmonton has cap problems on a roster that will never make it out of the second round (and really is never a lock to get out of the first round).

It's a lot harder to make the money work when you're still multiple pieces away from contending.

The caliber of roster really doesn't matter here. After 15 years of the cap being around we've seen a bunch of teams being hit with the "Oh,nos, they're in cap trouble!" only to see them not really be in trouble. With Edmonton specifically, they have plenty of cap space next year for the RFAs coming up and, if it gets tight, Klefbom will go on LTIR just as he's going to this year.

It takes a team really putting themselves into a bind and screwing up to hemorrhage talent over cap issues. I look at Edmonton and,eh. What they have is workable.

 

[Bench]

No, the Tampa debate was if they had cap trouble at all. Two cups later...eh, not really. They found a way to work around it just as everyone should have known they would. So will Edmonton. So will insert Team X.

You have to admit that was an extraordinary circumstance that allowed them to actually ice the roster they did this year.

I wouldn't count on that to bail out the Oilers. Just like there was no bail out for Minnesota. Or even the Wings, who were hard locked against the cap ceiling and still failing to make the playoffs.

 

[jkutswings]

No, the Tampa debate was if they had cap trouble at all. Two cups later...eh, not really. They found a way to work around it just as everyone should have known they would. So will Edmonton. So will insert Team X.



The caliber of roster really doesn't matter here. After 15 years of the cap being around we've seen a bunch of teams being hit with the "Oh,nos, they're in cap trouble!" only to see them not really be in trouble. With Edmonton specifically, they have plenty of cap space next year for the RFAs coming up and, if it gets tight, Klefbom will go on LTIR just as he's going to this year.

It takes a team really putting themselves into a bind and screwing up to hemorrhage talent over cap issues. I look at Edmonton and,eh. What they have is workable.

I'm not saying they can't make ANY moves. I'm saying their roster stinks, and it's already hard to go from bubble team to Cup winner, but not having an abundance of financial flexibility makes it harder.

 

[Winger98]

You have to admit that was an extraordinary circumstance that allowed them to actually ice the roster they did this year.

I wouldn't count on that to bail out the Oilers. Just like there was no bail out for Minnesota. Or even the Wings, who were hard locked against the cap ceiling and still failing to make the playoffs.

How many times were the Wings over the cap and everyone was wondering how they'd get under it and...oh, wait, this guy has a bad hamstring, that guy has a dinged up shoulder, etc. After playing in the league for twenty years Hossa suddenly couldn't overcome his debilitating allergy to hockey jerseys. So, no, the injury bug saving their butts didn't surprise me. I find it more extraordinary that they didn't make it work a third time with Hedman.

I'm not really seeing where the Oil are going to need bailed out.

I'm not saying they can't make ANY moves. I'm saying their roster stinks, and it's already hard to go from bubble team to Cup winner, but not having an abundance of financial flexibility makes it harder.

I don't think their roster stinks. Is it Tampa good? No, but Tampa stockpiled an amount of talent that outstrips pretty much everyone.

 

[jkutswings]

I don't think their roster stinks. Is it Tampa good? No, but Tampa stockpiled an amount of talent that outstrips pretty much everyone.

I think we agree to disagree here. I'd bet that Connor McDavid retires without ever getting to the Finals, let alone winning one.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I think we agree to disagree here. I'd bet that Connor McDavid retires without ever getting to the Finals, let alone winning one.

I'd bet he and Drai leave Edmonton as soon as they can and Edmonton ends up as the NHL equivalent of the Oklahoma City Thunder before they hemorrhaged championship caliber talent to multiple teams.

 

[golffuul]

I'd bet he and Drai leave Edmonton as soon as they can and Edmonton ends up as the NHL equivalent of the Oklahoma City Thunder before they hemorrhaged championship caliber talent to multiple teams.

Going to be telling how it will all go in the year ahead of Draisaitl's contract coming due, since they can both walk to UFA

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Going to be telling how it will all go in the year ahead of Draisaitl's contract coming due, since they can both walk to UFA

Drai's contract now is one of the best bargains in the NHL but he is definitely going to be in for a 4 million dollar raise as the next 12 million dollar man. And rightfully so. He may be second fiddle in Edmonton but he's the best second fiddle in the whole league. And at that stage he'll be 28 and Edmonton will still be locked into Hyman and RNH who by then will not be as good in 2025. It doesn't take a crystal ball that it's going to be real work to keep him there.

 

[Bench]

How many times were the Wings over the cap and everyone was wondering how they'd get under it and...oh, wait, this guy has a bad hamstring, that guy has a dinged up shoulder, etc. After playing in the league for twenty years Hossa suddenly couldn't overcome his debilitating allergy to hockey jerseys. So, no, the injury bug saving their butts didn't surprise me. I find it more extraordinary that they didn't make it work a third time with Hedman.

Ah, I see you're in the cap conspiracy camp.

And most of those examples you listed were old deals signed well before the new CBA designed to circumvent the cap with retirement years baked in. Those don't exist anymore.

 

[Winger98]

Ah, I see you're in the cap conspiracy camp.

And most of those examples you listed were old deals signed well before the new CBA designed to circumvent the cap with retirement years baked in. Those don't exist anymore.

I don't see a conspiracy, I see cap management.

 

[Bench]

I don't see a conspiracy, I see cap management.

Aren't you implying Kucherov wasn't really hurt then and that they fibbed about it?

That's a pretty serious claim.

 

[Oddbob]

Nurse to any more than 7 a season is insane!

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

With what happened to the defense market our old friend Jim Nill has to be super happy he locked in Heiskanen first. He might be the best of the young D-man to sign outside of Makar and he looks like a bargain next to a few of them.

 

[odin1981]

I think we agree to disagree here. I'd bet that Connor McDavid retires without ever getting to the Finals, let alone winning one.

If he stays in EDM yes. But if he leaves UFA I still think he can pull 1-2 cup wins depending on who he goes to.

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

With what happened to the defense market our old friend Jim Nill has to be super happy he locked in Heiskanen first. He might be the best of the young D-man to sign outside of Makar and he looks like a bargain next to a few of them.

And, at risk of getting ahead of ourselves, I think that's encouraging for a potential Seider deal in a few years. As great of a player as Moritz looks to be, I'm not sure his counting stats are going to jump off the page- especially in his first couple NHL seasons.

Heiskanen is similar. His production is good for sure, but a notch below say, Makar or Hughes. I could see a similar trajectory for Seider.

Now if Seider adds excellent counting stats on top of the defensive punishment, mobility, and puck-moving ability that we're pretty confident that he'll bring... well then Chris will have to break out the check book, because we'd have a pretty incredible player on our hands.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

And, at risk of getting ahead of ourselves, I think that's encouraging for a potential Seider deal in a few years. As great of a player as Moritz looks to be, I'm not sure his counting stats are going to jump off the page- especially in his first couple NHL seasons.

Heiskanen is similar. His production is good for sure, but a notch below say, Makar or Hughes. I could see a similar trajectory for Seider.

Now if Seider adds excellent counting stats on top of the defensive punishment, mobility, and puck-moving ability that we're pretty confident that he'll bring... well then Chris will have to break out the check book, because we'd have a pretty incredible player on our hands.

Seider being a 9 million dollar D-man and I think he can be is going to be a good thing. It is about time we start having superstars to pay superstar money to. There are guy that make a lot of money that are still worth even more in the league, hopefully Mo is one of those, he has that potential, we will see.

 

[GreatGordie9]

I see Brendan Perlini signed a two way contract with the Oilers.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Seider being a 9 million dollar D-man and I think he can be is going to be a good thing. It is about time we start having superstars to pay superstar money to. There are guy that make a lot of money that are still worth even more in the league, hopefully Mo is one of those, he has that potential, we will see.

Exactly this. If Mo makes north of 8 million dollars then things went very, very well for Detroit in their selection of him.