Around the NHL Summer 2021

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I would rather pay Nurse that than Hamilton. But it is a gamble. I care about this because of what I think it will mean with Seider shortly.

I don't know. Hamilton has been consistently good to great for 7 of his 9 years in the league. I think the Canes are going to miss him a lot more than people realize, and that his ability to move the puck up ice is going to be a nice boost for NJD. Maybe he won't score at a 60ish point pace next year but 50? I think that's reasonable.

I could see Nurse, Barrie and McDavids production come back to earth (to a degree) after rejoining a normal division. I think he still produces but not as much. Also the loss of Adam Larsson and Ethan Bear could really hurt Edmonton defensively. Tougher assignments for Nurse as a result.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I think Hamilton is average in his own end and has been helped a lot by the Canes surrounding talent. There were issues with him in that zone in both Calgary and Boston. I think once Luke Hughes gets there it will help. Graves is an interesting defensive guy. But I expect that part of Dougie's game to reappear in terms of issues.

I think the offense will be there, believe in that part of his game. Like you said maybe a minor dip, but he brings a ton on that side of the puck.

 

[Oddbob]

Nurse getting more than 7 per is nuts. He is good, not great.

 

[Bench]

At this point if you play on the blueline you're either a $10 million guy or a $5 million guy. There seems to be nothing left in between.

 

[golffuul]

At this point if you play on the blueline you're either a $10 million guy or a $5 million guy. There seems to be nothing left in between.

I also think people confuse being a #1 d-man and being a #1 d-man on your particular team.

 

[Bench]

I also think people confuse being a #1 d-man and being a #1 d-man on your particular team.

This was a pretty constant debate for Stars fans when Robidas was spot filling the top pairing. His numbers and ice time all seemed to indicate he was #1 guy but everyone knew that was only out of necessity.

I feel like in this current market if Robidas hit free agency after his 40 point season he would be pushing over $6 million at maybe 5 years? If Oleksiak, a guy who has never played the top unit of EV, PP, or PK can get 4.6 for 5 years, a top unit guy on all 3 must make more than that, right?

Back then his jump was from $1.5 to 4 years at $3.3 million. That was a cap hit percentage of 5.8%. That's nearly identical to Oleksiak's cap hit, a guy who has proven less than half of what Robidas had at that point.

The market feels a bit wonky now.

 

[golffuul]

This was a pretty constant debate for Stars fans when Robidas was spot filling the top pairing. His numbers and ice time all seemed to indicate he was #1 guy but everyone knew that was only out of necessity.

I feel like in this current market if Robidas hit free agency after his 40 point season he would be pushing over $6 million at maybe 5 years? If Oleksiak, a guy who has never played the top unit of EV, PP, or PK can get 4.6 for 5 years, a top unit guy on all 3 must make more than that, right?

Back then his jump was from $1.5 to 4 years at $3.3 million. That was a cap hit percentage of 5.8%. That's nearly identical to Oleksiak's cap hit, a guy who has proven less than half of what Robidas had at that point.

The market feels a bit wonky now.

A large amount of overvaluing by clubs, because of perceived media perception, IMO. The more the PHWA writers keep overhyping players, the more of a problem this will continue to be. They push player narratives a bit too far, in that they always seem to try and find 1 or 2 players per half season to try and pump the tires on, because of their "award season" rankings during the pre-season and mid-season. They include the normal 2 to 3 top tier players and then include players who are having seasons that are better than they have shown and then the 1-2 candidates who they feel should make the list, but honestly don't deserve to be there but they are good "stories" (RE: Page-hit value) and so there they are.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I think Hamilton is average in his own end and has been helped a lot by the Canes surrounding talent. There were issues with him in that zone in both Calgary and Boston. I think once Luke Hughes gets there it will help. Graves is an interesting defensive guy. But I expect that part of Dougie's game to reappear in terms of issues.

I think the offense will be there, believe in that part of his game. Like you said maybe a minor dip, but he brings a ton on that side of the puck.

A rising tide lifts all ships. Slavin and Hamilton worked so well together because their strengths played off each other. Having a guy like Slavin in Carolina allowed Hamilton to gamble more but he never struck me as someone that was taking risks that would blow his teammates up while in Carolina. I don't remember him much in Boston, but he was a rookie and sophomore while there. I don't think that a guy drafted as an offensive puck moving D should be expected to be great defensively early in his career.

I would expect some regression but not too much. If anything I would expect the regression to impact Carolina more than Hamilton in New Jersey. Hamilton is objectively a better defenseman than DeAngelo in all areas and is a ticking timebomb when things don't go well.

 

[FabricDetails]

Just now learned of some of the details and oof... This is bad.

Report: Blackhawks will release findings from internal investigation to the public

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Just a thought...

With Bernier, Graves, Tatar and Hamilton joining the NJD I think they may be able to steal enough points from NYR and PHI to keep them on the outside of the playoffs again. NYR and PHI fans will be inconsolable. I'm loving it.

 

[RayMoonDoh]

 

[Bench]

Holy smokes.

If that's where they landed after negotiating, what the hell was Nurse's agent asking originally?

 

[HisNoodliness]

Holy smokes.

If that's where they landed after negotiating, what the hell was Nurse's agent asking originally?

Knowing Kenny, 6 years, 6 million

 

[Bench]

Knowing Kenny, 6 years, 6 million

Kenny does love his max year contracts. Usually that kind of term drops the cap hit somewhat, but, uh... Well not here.

For example, I thought the 8 year RNH deal was fantastic for the Oilers. Sure it's long, but he's making a really reasonable cap hit during the most critical years of the Oilers window. Very savvy move, Ken!

They got RNH locked up for less than Hyman. Let that sink in.

I think Nurse is a fine defender, he's very good, but he just got a contract like he's in the top 5 and the Oilers cap is going to absolutely implode in 4-5 years just like the Wings cap did.

The trick will be if they can win that Cup before it happens.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Knowing Kenny, 6 years, 6 million

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Ahahahahahahhahahahahahhaha!!!!

 

[SoupNazi]

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Ahahahahahahhahahahahahhaha!!!!

And he'll never win anything sticking in Edmonton.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Ahahahahahahhahahahahahhaha!!!!

Oh man, those poor Oilers fans.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Kenny does love his max year contracts. Usually that kind of term drops the cap hit somewhat, but, uh... Well not here.

For example, I thought the 8 year RNH deal was fantastic for the Oilers. Sure it's long, but he's making a really reasonable cap hit during the most critical years of the Oilers window. Very savvy move, Ken!

They got RNH locked up for less than Hyman. Let that sink in.

I think Nurse is a fine defender, he's very good, but he just got a contract like he's in the top 5 and the Oilers cap is going to absolutely implode in 4-5 years just like the Wings cap did.

The trick will be if they can win that Cup before it happens.

Holland makes me think he hasn't read the book, "Rich dad/poor dad".

His complete lack of cap management and the long term deals he makes really make me believe that he's the kind of dude that blows his paycheck in 3 days without thinking about the bills he's gotta pay on days 4, 5 and 6 before the next check comes.

 

[Bench]

Holland makes me think he hasn't read the book, "Rich dad/poor dad".

His complete lack of cap management and the long term deals he makes really make me believe that he's the kind of dude that blows his paycheck in 3 days without thinking about the bills he's gotta pay on days 4, 5 and 6 before the next check comes.

I actually think this is my design and not an oversight. When people pressed him on the lengthy Abby deal he literally said he'd worry about it years later.

He knows it could get dicey eventually but he thinks he can win before that happens and he has to start juggling all the guys in their mid-30s destroying his cap.

Of course usually by that point another GM has to deal with it.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I actually think this is my design and not an oversight. When people pressed him on the lengthy Abby deal he literally said he'd worry about it years later.

He knows it could get dicey eventually but he thinks he can win before that happens and he has to start juggling all the guys in their mid-30s destroying his cap.

Of course usually by that point another GM has to deal with it.

Look at their cap situation.

Edmonton Oilers Salary Cap, Draft Picks, and Player Contracts - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

They're going to have to pay to get rid of Kassian's deadbeat ass just to cover Puljujarvi's raise next year. And they're going to only have enough money left over to sign some of the worst leftover UFA goalies. He's going to end up leaving that mess for someone else much, much sooner than he thinks.

 

[Winger98]

Much like the handwringing over Tampa's cap issues, the hullabaloo over Edmonton's cap situation is much ado about nothing.

 

[Bench]

Much like the handwringing over Tampa's cap issues, the hullabaloo over Edmonton's cap situation is much ado about nothing.

The Tampa debate was if paying Stamkos, a legitimate 40 goal scorer, was worth keeping with incredible talents like Kucherov and Point. Tampa also has the best defender and best goalie in the league, so that helps.

The quality of guys, outside of the big two, isn't anywhere near what Tampa assembled and they are stuffing their coffers with middling guys like Ceci, Hyman, and Kassian.

It's Ericsson, Abdelkader, and Helm all over again.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Much like the handwringing over Tampa's cap issues, the hullabaloo over Edmonton's cap situation is much ado about nothing.

There are a few key differences between them.

1) Tampa is managed well by a GM with a track record of being able to navigate the cap while still remaining a contender. Edmonton is not.
2) Players are more likely (see Bogosian) to take a discount to play in Tampa due to a favorable tax situation. 0% state income tax in Florida versus much higher tax rates in Canada.
3) Edmonton has to pay a higher rate to players to keep them in part because of the taxes.
4) Tampa has a scouting farm system that is amongst the best in the league and has developed and promoted some very talented players over the past 6 seasons that few teams can match over that timespan.
5) One of Tampa's big contracts is a top 3 goalie in the league that just won the Conn Smythe and previously won a Vezina. Edmonton only has Mike Smith signed beyond this season.
6) Tampa's top 4 defense that are locked in for a couple more years are are Hedman, McDonagh, Sergachev and Cernak. Edmonton has Nurse, Keith, Ceci and Barrie at roughly the same cost.

I'm not saying that Holland trades McDavid or Draisaitl, but the cap is only increasing by 1 million in 2022-23 and there will likely be yet another flat-ish cap the following season. Player salaries would have to scale back or impact FAs would have to take discounts to go and play in Edmonton, and I don't see that happening.

Furthermore, you can realistically expect diminishing returns from Hyman around age 32 or 33, 3 or 4 years into his albatross of a contract, IF he remains healthy over that span. RNH probably the same. They are 28 and 29 years old right now.

In 2 years time Edmonton is going to be feeling the pinch for depth much more than Tampa is.

 

[jkutswings]

Much like the handwringing over Tampa's cap issues, the hullabaloo over Edmonton's cap situation is much ado about nothing.

Tampa has cap problems on a championship caliber roster.

Edmonton has cap problems on a roster that will never make it out of the second round (and really is never a lock to get out of the first round).

It's a lot harder to make the money work when you're still multiple pieces away from contending.

 

[golffuul]

With the Cap only going up by $1M per year for the next 3, this is pretty untenable for the Oilers, especially with Draisaitl's contract coming due in before the big Cap increase in 5 years.