Around the NHL 2020-2021 | Offseason Edition

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I hold them on the same tier of troublesome, and I argued aggressively for Muzzin to be suspended.

Using any form of leverage to slam a player to the ice isn’t going to fly with me. There’s a difference between a generic take down and a true body slam.

Yep, this is basically my most recent post here summed up. Using leverage and taking away the ability of the other guy to protect himself on landing is a f***ing dangerous game. It's why guys and gals in the WWE work together on their bodyslams so that they look dangerous but are actually safe.

Another example (this from WWE) of how thin the line between safe and nothing wrong and HOLY f*** THIS IS BAD is the difference in height between a guy dropping to his knees to do a piledriver and falling onto the seat of his pants to do a piledriver. Stone Cold Steve Austin had his career and earning potential cut massively because Owen Hart told him he could do a piledriver safely and with one miscommunication on how to land it went from a potentially cool spot to one of the all-time greats in the history of the company damn near being paralyzed. I know this can be seen as an over-reactionary viewpoint, but I think they should start looking at the intent of actions over the result. Make it so shit like cross-checks to the neck, bodyslams, and the like are just not things that players do. Fighting, hard checks, etc? Those definitely have their place in hockey. Shit like crosschecks to the head or what Muzzin did or spearing or basically any use of the stick for anything but shooting and passing the puck should just not be a part of the game and if you want to continue with the stickwork like that, you face incredibly heavy punishment.

 

[MBH]

Yeah, because there are so many folks lining up in this discussion repeating it endlessly that you have to bring the false narrative on it. You're banging that drum by yourself here because it allows you to just make broad statements with a degree of false authority.

And apparently Panarin was hurt. He's done for the year. But imagine what would have happened if Wilson tried.

What Wilson did was crass. It was not dangerous or a threat to player safety.
The only guy who got hurt - if he's hurt - is the guy who foolishly jumped on Wilson's back when he was already engaged with Strome.
My guess is Panarin learned his lesson. Rangers are probably happy to rest him, improve their odds at a higher pick.

In terms of player safety - DOPS got it right.
You can argue that Wilson's conduct was cheap and stupid, and I won't argue. And for that? For stupid, crass conduct that led to this? Sure, you could throw a game at him.
But that's not really Parros' purview, is it?


I know I'm not alone in this opinion.
Having Bench-Sweeney-HenKolland-Winger on the same side as the hyperventilating majority isn't enough for me to ignore the actual facts.

 

[MBH]

If he didn't operate with false authority, he wouldn't have any at all... so there is that.

You think anyone has authority on a message board?

Last I checked, the authority that mattered announced a fine and no suspension.

 

[Bench]

Seider is going to draw some heat because of how physical he is but when I watch clips of him I don't see him making the sort of plays or taking the sort of angles that would make him look dirty. I watch his clips and I see Rob Blake more and more. Just a real big, solid guy who takes the body but does it in a pretty straight up way. He's going to infuriate other fans and he is going to cross the line from time to time, but I don't see a guy like Derian Hatcher or even Adam Foote, who would go out of his way to be a bit cheap. Seider has the potential to be a really special player.

Exactly. I wanted to circle back to this but you already laid it out.

If he does a Weber and slams someone's head into the glass, well, obviously we're going to have to take issue with that.



No suspension on that play, either. Which is still baffling to me. If that's not intent to injure - what the hell is? Funny seeing Roenick in that clip going, "No question he'll be suspended."

But nobody is arguing for removing physical play from the game. It's headshots and all the extra stuff that happens between hockey we're talking about. I don't know who could read that Paul Kariya interview and at least not want to have that discussion in earnest.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

What Wilson did was crass. It was not dangerous or a threat to player safety.
The only guy who got hurt - if he's hurt - is the guy who foolishly jumped on Wilson's back when he was already engaged with Strome.
My guess is Panarin learned his lesson. Rangers are probably happy to rest him, improve their odds at a higher pick.

In terms of player safety - DOPS got it right.
You can argue that Wilson's conduct was cheap and stupid, and I won't argue. And for that? For stupid, crass conduct that led to this? Sure, you could throw a game at him.
But that's not really Parros' purview, is it?


I know I'm not alone in this opinion.
Having Bench-Sweeney-HenKolland-Winger on the same side as the hyperventilating majority isn't enough for me to ignore the actual facts.

The issue with Wilson is that he keeps doing this shit. He keeps doing crass, borderline dangerous shit. I know there is a place for shit-stirrers in the NHL. Kirk Maltby was a favorite of mine and he was a f***ing prick to everyone on the ice. But when you keep ending up in the middle of these scrums, someone is eventually going to get hurt really badly and then everyone is gonna wring their hands and say "Oh, what could we possibly have done to prevent this catastrophe?"

You keep the players from drifting too far out of line by crushing down on the guy who keeps violating the rules. You show that "yeah, Tom, that hit wasn't so bad or it was borderline, but you've been suspended a dozen times already." That's what the repeat offender thing should be about. It's the argument they use when a guy like Nyquist goes Tomahawk Jack on Jared Spurgeon's face (which I also was vehemently opposed to and wanted a big time suspension for) that he's only ever done it the once so cut him a break.

 

[Bench]

It's the argument they use when a guy like Nyquist goes Tomahawk Jack on Jared Spurgeon's face (which I also was vehemently opposed to and wanted a big time suspension for) that he's only ever done it the once so cut him a break.

That was a fun game to be in the crowd with my Wings gear on.

 

[Hen Kolland]

What Wilson did was crass. It was not dangerous or a threat to player safety.
The only guy who got hurt - if he's hurt - is the guy who foolishly jumped on Wilson's back when he was already engaged with Strome.
My guess is Panarin learned his lesson. Rangers are probably happy to rest him, improve their odds at a higher pick.

In terms of player safety - DOPS got it right.
You can argue that Wilson's conduct was cheap and stupid, and I won't argue. And for that? For stupid, crass conduct that led to this? Sure, you could throw a game at him.
But that's not really Parros' purview, is it?


I know I'm not alone in this opinion.
Having Bench-Sweeney-HenKolland-Winger on the same side as the hyperventilating majority isn't enough for me to ignore the actual facts.

**The actual facts as they exist in your mind**

I'm sorry, but saying what Wilson did was not dangerous or a threat to player safety is f***ing ludicrous. And I am not arguing about the rabbit punch on Buchnevich. I am talking about the leveraged slam of Panarin to the ice. Something that was just a little rotation away from a cracked skull or maybe a broken neck with the amount of force and angle of impact. Not dangerous lol. That's like saying Russian Roulette isn't dangerous as long as you didn't land on the loaded chamber. I'm so thankful that the drunk driver I encountered last night wasn't dangerous; I mean he was drifting into oncoming traffic and missing traffic signals, and nearly hit a few other cars, but he made it home safe and nobody got hit, so it wasn't dangerous. I mean people know the dangers that exist on the road, they signed up for it when they got their drivers license, that they could be injured or killed by people who try to get away with things outside of the rules.

 

[FabricDetails]

It's the argument they use when a guy like Nyquist goes Tomahawk Jack on Jared Spurgeon's face (which I also was vehemently opposed to and wanted a big time suspension for) that he's only ever done it the once so cut him a break.

So, uh, yeah, I completely forgot about that...



Kind of along the lines what I hope happens to Wilson at times, ngl...

 

[MBH]

The issue with Wilson is that he keeps doing this shit. He keeps doing crass, borderline dangerous shit. I know there is a place for shit-stirrers in the NHL. Kirk Maltby was a favorite of mine and he was a f***ing prick to everyone on the ice. But when you keep ending up in the middle of these scrums, someone is eventually going to get hurt really badly and then everyone is gonna wring their hands and say "Oh, what could we possibly have done to prevent this catastrophe?"

You keep the players from drifting too far out of line by crushing down on the guy who keeps violating the rules. You show that "yeah, Tom, that hit wasn't so bad or it was borderline, but you've been suspended a dozen times already." That's what the repeat offender thing should be about. It's the argument they use when a guy like Nyquist goes Tomahawk Jack on Jared Spurgeon's face (which I also was vehemently opposed to and wanted a big time suspension for) that he's only ever done it the once so cut him a break.

I agree. Wilson's pose in the penalty box made me want to punch that motherf***er in the face.


When I watch that entire sequence - I see a clown show. Not a menace to player safety, really.
Because as f***ed as Wilson's behavior was, he wasn't running around coldcocking guys in the face like menaces of years past.

At the end of the day, it was much ado about nothing serious.

And maybe this was something good for the Rangers and their fans.
1) They've got a reason to seriously hate another team/player. How many non-playoff teams can say that? When was the last time Wings fans had a valid reason to hate a team so much you'd make damn sure you watched?
2) Maybe they realize they should go out and get a tough guy to help protect Panarin/Buch/Lafreniere/Fox/Miller/Kakko.

I grew up on Habs-vs-Nordiques, Oilers-vs-Flames, Habs-vs-Flyers, Wings-vs-Avs (I was older then).
Rivalries take everything great about hockey and multiply it.

 

[Bench]

Wilson's pose in the penalty box made me want to punch that motherf***er in the face.

LOL

 

[MBH]

**The actual facts as they exist in your mind**

I'm sorry, but saying what Wilson did was not dangerous or a threat to player safety is f***ing ludicrous. And I am not arguing about the rabbit punch on Buchnevich. I am talking about the leveraged slam of Panarin to the ice. Something that was just a little rotation away from a cracked skull or maybe a broken neck with the amount of force and angle of impact. Not dangerous lol. That's like saying Russian Roulette isn't dangerous as long as you didn't land on the loaded chamber. I'm so thankful that the drunk driver I encountered last night wasn't dangerous; I mean he was drifting into oncoming traffic and missing traffic signals, and nearly hit a few other cars, but he made it home safe and nobody got hit, so it wasn't dangerous. I mean people know the dangers that exist on the road, they signed up for it when they got their drivers license, that they could be injured or killed by people who try to get away with things outside of the rules.

A man climbs on your back while you are tangled with someone else, you are entitled to take him down.
Period.
Wilson could have hurt him if he wanted. He didn't.

Don't f***ing on the bull if you're not f***ing ready to ride.

 

[Hen Kolland]

A man climbs on your back while you are tangled with someone else, you are entitled to take him down.
Period.
Wilson could have hurt him if he wanted. He didn't.

Don't f***ing on the bull if you're not f***ing ready to ride.

For the love of everything, please don't start f***ing on the bull. The bull doesn't deserve that type of treatment.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

A man climbs on your back while you are tangled with someone else, you are entitled to take him down.
Period.
Wilson could have hurt him if he wanted. He didn't.

Don't f***ing on the bull if you're not f***ing ready to ride.

Looking back at it... Hell no. Wilson had plenty of time to not do that. He had plenty of time between Panarin "jumping on him" and dropping the RKO on him. You don't get a go-ahead to drop the boom on a guy. Wilson had him tied up in the corner like every other fight and scrum. And then he slammed him down. No damn need for dropping the hammer punch onto Buchnevich and definitely no need to slam Panarin. "Don't mess with the bull or you'll get the horns" doesn't apply here. Wilson had every opportunity to just tie up Panarin and not shit-slam him and it wouldn't hurt his rep at all. You want to throw hands later on? Cool, do it later when both of your are on there. This is the same as the response from the Wings after the Muzzin bodyslam. The

The situation was getting de-escalated. Panarin and Wilson were actually separated a little bit just before it. Buchnevich got up and was tied up with van Riemsdyk and other guys were tied up the way scrums always work. Wilson cranked it back up.

And I'm sorry " Wilson could have hurt him if he wanted, but didn't" isn't a good argument.

 

[Hen Kolland]

And I'm sorry " Wilson could have hurt him if he wanted, but didn't" isn't a good argument.

Especially because he did hurt him...

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Especially because he did hurt him...

Wilson said they have spoke and Panarin is doing fine...

I actually thought his comments summed it up today. But it was interesting to hear the meetings the Caps have put him through. Sounds a lot like what Cooke went through in Pittsburgh after the McDonagh hit, just without actually releasing the substance of the meeting. But kind of clear they think he is about to get in much larger trouble.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Wilson said they have spoke and Panarin is doing fine...

I actually thought his comments summed it up today. But it was interesting to hear the meetings the Caps have put him through. Sounds a lot like what Cooke went through in Pittsburgh after the McDonagh hit, just without actually releasing the substance of the meeting. But kind of clear they think he is about to get in much larger trouble.

It’s a tough balance to strike for the Caps right now. You can’t completely neuter Wilson because a lot of what he contributes is tied to his physicality and edge on top of his hockey ability. But you also can’t have a guy who is going to get that out of control because you will eventually lose him as a hockey player to suspension or injury, and his team had living hell to endure in the Wednesday night game. His teammates having to answer for his behavior is not what you want as an organization.

Like Mantha eating that cross check. Imagine trading Vrana, Panik, a 1st and 2nd and Mantha somehow ended up with a concussion and fractured jaw because Buchnevich was retaliating to Wilson’s actions.

For everybody’s sake, I hope they are able to reign him in a little bit.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

It’s a tough balance to strike for the Caps right now. You can’t completely neuter Wilson because a lot of what he contributes is tied to his physicality and edge on top of his hockey ability. But you also can’t have a guy who is going to get that out of control because you will eventually lose him as a hockey player to suspension or injury, and his team had living hell to endure in the Wednesday night game. His teammates having to answer for his behavior is not what you want as an organization.

Like Mantha eating that cross check. Imagine trading Vrana, Panik, a 1st and 2nd and Mantha somehow ended up with a concussion and fractured jaw because Buchnevich was retaliating to Wilson’s actions.

For everybody’s sake, I hope they are able to reign him in a little bit.

He can say hitting the goalie but a part of what he did to Buchnevich was for hurting Ovie. Doubt that is done with the slash and cross check. Buchnevich is going to get his ass kicked hard the next time these two teams play. He can keep retaliating but he is the starting point for me and he doesn't have the ability to back that up at all..

 

[FabricDetails]

He can say hitting the goalie but a part of what he did to Buchnevich was for hurting Ovie. Doubt that is done with the slash and cross check. Buchnevich is going to get his ass kicked hard the next time these two teams play. He can keep retaliating but he is the starting point for me and he doesn't have the ability to back that up at all..

Really struggled to find a clip of this (hit from behind I think?) on either YT or Twitter. Not that it makes much of a difference to revisit.

 

[Winger98]

Wilson said they have spoke and Panarin is doing fine...

I actually thought his comments summed it up today. But it was interesting to hear the meetings the Caps have put him through. Sounds a lot like what Cooke went through in Pittsburgh after the McDonagh hit, just without actually releasing the substance of the meeting. But kind of clear they think he is about to get in much larger trouble.

Well, they're right. If Wilson can't keep himself together and not go off the rails at some point the league will have to come down a lot harder on him than they have. I think part of the reason he didn't get a two game suspension for the Buchnevich/Panarin fiasco is that they didn't want to tack it on to his record. If it was someone like Givani Smith doing that I think a suspension would have been more likely.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Really struggled to find a clip of this (hit from behind I think?) on either YT or Twitter. Not that it makes much of a difference to revisit.

When Ovie left the ice in his last game against the Rangers, I was actually watching it on center ice. I remember him barking at the ref and Buchnevich. He was really upset about something, and chatter picked up from there. Like I said people that want to make this out to be a Wilson goes crazy in the corner, I think there is a little more to this. You had kind of a powder keg building, you could feel the dislike in these two teams in a few of the games I have watched this season. I don't think the refs had control of this game.

I get that it does somewhat happen spur of the moment. But from the friends I know that have played the game at the highest levels one of the things you often discount is just how much these guys have played each other now in life. That is where the famous take the number stuff comes from and it does still exist even in the way less physical modern NHL. Wilson says he is always protecting his goalie like he is taught, well does he give the same kind of shot if he doesn't realize it is Buchnevich. Virtually everyone I know that played says you know. So in terms of some of that quote I am just not really buying it full on, but I do appreciate that Wilson addressed it and I thought some of his description is what Parros and a lot of the inside hockey community felt.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Well, they're right. If Wilson can't keep himself together and not go off the rails at some point the league will have to come down a lot harder on him than they have. I think part of the reason he didn't get a two game suspension for the Buchnevich/Panarin fiasco is that they didn't want to tack it on to his record. If it was someone like Givani Smith doing that I think a suspension would have been more likely.

And that's the issue. They play fast and loose with the rules like that and then they're surprised when Wilson does something like this again. That's what the problem is. You have to play within the rules to be an agitator. If you break them, you should get punished. It's just like reneging in Euchre. It's a perfectly acceptable part of the game with a penalty for it if people are paying attention and call you out on it. If you continually renege, people will watch you closer and at worst they'll stop playing with you, but if they want to keep playing with you because you're one of the four around who know the rules, they'd keep upping the penalty so you break yourself out of that habit of doing it.

If they care about reining in Wilson at all, they should have made sure this got added onto his docket of suspendable activities. I'm not a huge fan of different rule books for different guys. It's why I've always hated basketball, because you know damn well that there were different rules for Michael Jordan, Shaquille O'Neal, Kobe Bryant, and LeBron James. I hate "superstar" calls. Like that some nondescript fourth liner or bench player or triple A callup in baseball and the announcers say "he hasn't been around long enough to get that call". If it's a penalty, a foul, a strike for the worst player in the league, it should be one for the best player in the league.

 

[jkutswings]

If the NHL had any desire whatsoever to truly prioritize player safety, certain actions would already be effectively extinct.

Certain infractions - stick contact with the head/neck, kneeing, slew footing, etc. - should have an automatic ejection and 3 game suspension. Feel free to evaluate each case to add further discipline if warranted, but the scenarios that are inherently careless/dirty should be guaranteed to start with nasty consequences.

I love fighting and physical play...when done cleanly. The other nonsense can disappear altogether and I'll be happy to see it go.

 

[FabricDetails]

Our favorite lightning rod.

 

[RabidBadger]

McD hits 100 in a shortened season. Just wow, man. The term "generational" is thrown around casually with players; McDavid typifies the term. The scary thing is, he hasn't even hit his prime.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

McD hits 100 in a shortened season. Just wow, man. The term "generational" is thrown around casually with players; McDavid typifies the term. The scary thing is, he hasn't even hit his prime.

Pretty amazing what he accomplished. Just imagine if he played defense like earlier in his career too. (100 takeaways and such)

Edit: How does this season compare against a Gretzky season?