News Article: Around the League

[WaW]

If the cap goes to 87.5M next year, their top 3 earners will make 40.2%. Not gonna bother calculate two years from now as we don't know what cap will be(maybe 92.5M?) , Tavares will be off their books, and Marner will need to be resigned.

Do you mean that the pandemic has made them too top heavy?

As for teams doing it at 35-36%, did they have any good players on ELCs?

Pittsburgh in 15 and 16 did it at 36% and 35% respectively and did so with comically unreliable goaltending to boot. Don't remember what their ELC situation was like.

As for your other question, I think the pandemic has undoubtedly made them alot more top heavy than intended. When Marner was signed in 2019 (Matthews and Tavares were already making 11.6 and 11) they certainly didn't expect the cap to be the exact same in 2023 as it was in 2019. The only team I think are in the same tier of how much the pandemic flat cap f***ed them over is Edmonton. They were robbed of 3 extremely team friendly contract seasons of McDavid + Draisaitl combining for about 20 million.

 

[ricky0034]

I wrote too top heavy, not top heavy. There is a significant difference. If you get too top heavy, you are going to have problems finding cap space for depth. Having a 1C is not top heavy.
Look at Toronto. They have 3 players taking up about 40% of their cap. Too top heavy, and that is why they won't win.

eh more like too forward heavy

Toronto would be a much stronger team if they had some $11m defenseman instead of Tavares, even if it was a similar level guy where they were a bit overpaid

 

[DoMakc]

Toews was absolutely and without a doubt a top 10 center in the league during his peak. If not for Bergeron, he would have about 4 Selkes, whether we believe he truly would have deserved them or not.

And regardless of what you think of Toews, Chicago also had 1 of the only 2 generational wingers arguably good enough since the mid 00s to build a cup winner around in prime Patrick Kane (the other being Ovechkin).

I get that he played for Chicago, but that simply doesn't matter looking at it objectively and removing the emotional aspect of the Deteoit - Chicago rivalry lol.

But i thought Bergeron was an example of non-superstar center model? How a lesser player is supposed to be a superstar? Is top 10 center a superstar? And what about LA Kings and this year's Vegas? Was Eichel with his 65 points superstar (and career high 82)? Maybe Red Wings should stop worry about Larkin, as he seems to fir the criteria...

 

[Run the Jewels]

Maybe Red Wings should stop worry about Larkin, as he seems to fir the criteria...

Don't worry about what you cannot control. We never hit on an elite, PPG center but we also will not likely pay anyone close to $12 million a year until the cap has risen substantially. We have to go with what the draft has given us which is depth and rock solid two way play. There is a path to winning with this formula.

 

[norrisnick]

Toews was absolutely and without a doubt a top 10 center in the league during his peak. If not for Bergeron, he would have about 4 Selkes, whether we believe he truly would have deserved them or not.

And regardless of what you think of Toews, Chicago also had 1 of the only 2 generational wingers arguably good enough since the mid 00s to build a cup winner around in prime Patrick Kane (the other being Ovechkin).

I get that he played for Chicago, but that simply doesn't matter looking at it objectively and removing the emotional aspect of the Deteoit - Chicago rivalry lol.

That says more about the league than it does about Toews, but even then I disagree. Borderline top 10, at best. His reputation greatly outgrew his ability.

 

[Konnan511]

The term Superstar gets thrown around way too easy. There's like maybe 5 Superstars in the entire league.

 

[RRhoads]

Pittsburgh in 15 and 16 did it at 36% and 35% respectively and did so with comically unreliable goaltending to boot. Don't remember what their ELC situation was like.

They had quite a few on ELCs. Rust, Sheary who had 9 and 10 points during their run. Matt Murray on ELC posted a 2.08gaa and a .923 save percentage, so unreliable goaltending is a stretch. They also had Maata on ELC.

 

[WaW]

But i thought Bergeron was an example of non-superstar center model? How a lesser player is supposed to be a superstar? Is top 10 center a superstar? And what about LA Kings and this year's Vegas? Was Eichel with his 65 points superstar (and career high 82)? Maybe Red Wings should stop worry about Larkin, as he seems to fir the criteria...

Bergeron before that cup run wasn't as great as the player he was after that run. Look at his numbers and the selke wins...that cup run was sort of his coming out party. Boston is weird because they won their cup before Bergeron reached his peak and became the we all know him as.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be sneaky and use Bergeron as a technicality to further my own point, but that would be disingenuous and I'm not trying to gaslight anyone.

 

[WaW]

That says more about the league than it does about Toews, but even then I disagree. Borderline top 10, at best. His reputation greatly outgrew his ability.

Serious question though, and I'm fine with us all halving different opinions, but who would you actually have ahead of Toews from 2009-2015?

In no particular order, the only centers I can confidently put there would be Crosby, Malkin, Kopitar, Datsyuk, Stamkos, Thornton, and Henrik Sedin.

Then it's close between Bergeron, Toews, Giroux, Getzlaf, and Tavares. And because I value Selke winners/candidates much higher than most when ranking 1Cs, I'd stick Bergeron and Toews above the other 3 in this group during that time period.

 

[norrisnick]

Serious question though, and I'm fine with us all halving different opinions, but who would you actually have ahead of Toews from 2009-2015?

In no particular order, the only centers I can confidently put there would be Crosby, Malkin, Kopitar, Datsyuk, Stamkos, Thornton, and Henrik Sedin.

Then it's close between Bergeron, Toews, Giroux, Getzlaf, and Tavares. And because I value Selke winners/candidates much higher than most when ranking 1Cs, I'd stick Bergeron and Toews above the other 3 in this group during that time period.

You named most of them. Add in Zetterberg and Backstrom. I don't trust Toews' Selke votes further than I can throw them. The Media Aura did not show up on the ice, contrary to the beliefs of many.

And if you add up all those names... guess who is right in that top 15 center range right now? And doing so without ever having a bonafide top line winger to play with...

Bergeron before that cup run wasn't as great as the player he was after that run. Look at his numbers and the selke wins...that cup run was sort of his coming out party. Boston is weird because they won their cup before Bergeron reached his peak and became the we all know him as.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be sneaky and use Bergeron as a technicality to further my own point, but that would be disingenuous and I'm not trying to gaslight anyone.

So rather than Bergeron, you're just going to gaslight anyway with Toews. How noble...

 

[WaW]

So rather than Bergeron, you're just going to gaslight anyway with Toews. How noble...

Oof, this one's quite...out there.

I feel like I kept the discourse civil until now and that this is completely uncalled for and beyond unnecessary my guy.

 

[norrisnick]

I feel like I kept the discourse civil until now and that this is completely uncalled for and beyond unnecessary my guy.

Right. You're being civil and I'm just being emotional. Got it.

 

[WaW]

Right. You're being civil and I'm just being emotional. Got it.

I mean okay, but these are your words, not mine. Let's seriously back up here. I was sincerely enjoying the civil discourse because we were keeping it about hockey. Chill my dude, we're talking about something from a decade ago, I thought it was an interesting discussion until that last comment.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

It's been funny watching the narrative shift on Eichel.

When he was on the trade block, I advocated on his behalf (because I trusted @The Zetterberg Era 's judgement so much) and ate so much shit from people that said he was a huge part of the problems in Buffalo. Then he went to Vegas, they didn't even make the playoffs, and that loser narrative was emboldened.

And just as an aside, TZE never wavered on Eichel. He's a guy we've been discussing since his draft. And if I were TZE I would have gloated way more this summer when he was proven a million percent right.

Well there is the caveat that I thought he could be close to McDavid that blocks some of that boasting… I think he should have won the Smythe, glad to see him back healthy. A 1-2 of Eichel and Matthews internationally should be fascinating. With a better D-core and goalie situation than Canada I really want to see how it looks.

 

[WaW]

Well there is the caveat that I thought he could be close to McDavid that blocks some of that boasting… I think he should have won the Smythe, glad to see him back healthy. A 1-2 of Eichel and Matthews internationally should be fascinating. With a better D-core and goalie situation than Canada I really want to see how it looks.

I'm not here for the USA Hockey hype obviously lmao (but you aren't wrong about the goaltending and the D and F groups are at least very, very close)...but I'm with you on Eichel being oddly underrated all of a sudden and that I also think he should have won the Conn Smythe.

 

[norrisnick]

I mean okay, but these are your words, not mine. Let's seriously back up here. I was sincerely enjoying the civil discourse because we were keeping it about hockey. Chill my dude, we're talking about something from a decade ago, I thought it was an interesting discussion until that last comment.

I suggest that you reread your post from the previous page. It's not civil discourse to dismiss disagreement as "emotional." Neither is it objective for that matter...

I personally don't care one way or another whether the discourse is civil, the mods might of course. But don't sit there and cry foul if someone responds in kind.

Toews is the "winner of all winners" because he played on a stacked Chicago and stacked team Canada. In Carolina or Detroit he'd be another Aho or Larkin.

 

[WaW]

I suggest that you reread your post from the previous page. It's not civil discourse to dismiss disagreement as "emotional." Neither is it objective for that matter...

I personally don't care one way or another whether the discourse is civil, the mods might of course. But don't sit there and cry foul if someone responds in kind.

Toews is the "winner of all winners" because he played on a stacked Chicago and stacked team Canada. In Carolina or Detroit he'd be another Aho or Larkin.

Wait, you don't believe there's an emotional aspect to the Detroit - Chicago rivalry? That's fine if it's your opinion, but I'd argue that's our most heated historical rivalry. Back when I used to be invested in hating teams they were up there with Colorado for me. Hell going back to the original six days, the Detroit v Chicago games were probably full of raw emotion. Alot of rivalries in sports still are (I.e. look at Michigan v MSU or Michigan v Ohio State).

I'm not clear on how it's being dismissive to suggest there's alot of emotion in a historic sports rivalry...in fact I think that should be celebrated, but that's just how I perceive it anyway.

Not trying to change your mind if you don't believe that's the case but I have genuinely never come across such an opinion before...

 

[DoMakc]

Bergeron before that cup run wasn't as great as the player he was after that run. Look at his numbers and the selke wins...that cup run was sort of his coming out party. Boston is weird because they won their cup before Bergeron reached his peak and became the we all know him as.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be sneaky and use Bergeron as a technicality to further my own point, but that would be disingenuous and I'm not trying to gaslight anyone.

I disagree with your assessment of Bergeron - he actually was great from the beginning. The issue was that he basically missed a season due to concussion issues and had long recovery, incl additional concussion next season. Actually his second and third seasons in the league were seasons with second and third highest point totals. And while he maybe wasn't Selke level defensive forward, he always was very good defensively.

 

[jkutswings]

Elias Pettersson says extensions talks are 'on hold' with Vancouver Canucks | TSN

Vancouver Canucks star Elias Pettersson has put extension talks "on hold" as he prepares for the upcoming season.

www.tsn.ca

The kid said over and over that he just wants to win. Vancouver isn't leaving the basement any time soon.

I think he's playing his last year for the Canucks. Which will make the deadline and next summer very interesting.

 

[WaW]

I disagree with your assessment of Bergeron - he actually was great from the beginning. The issue was that he basically missed a season due to concussion issues and had long recovery, incl additional concussion next season. Actually his second and third seasons in the league were seasons with second and third highest point totals. And while he maybe wasn't Selke level defensive forward, he always was very good defensively.

I dont disagree with any of what you stated here. I just don't believe he was an overall top 10 centermen in the league until after that year after cup win, that's all.

 

[SoupNazi]

Holland will probably call Cleary and Abby up to take league minimum deals and ride shotgun with McDavid for a while. Will replace whatever depth he loses.

 

[raymond23]

They actually have some solid contracts.

It's the Nurse and Campbell deals that have them royal f***ed. They'll really need to rely on ELC's moving forward

 

[Bench]

Elias Pettersson says extensions talks are 'on hold' with Vancouver Canucks | TSN

Vancouver Canucks star Elias Pettersson has put extension talks "on hold" as he prepares for the upcoming season.

www.tsn.ca

The kid said over and over that he just wants to win. Vancouver isn't leaving the basement any time soon.

I think he's playing his last year for the Canucks. Which will make the deadline and next summer very interesting.

Pettersson, Raymond, Edvinsson, Burgers, Wallinder, Soderblom...

Let's rebuild the Swedish Mafia, baby!

 

[Ricelund]

Elias Pettersson says extensions talks are 'on hold' with Vancouver Canucks | TSN

Vancouver Canucks star Elias Pettersson has put extension talks "on hold" as he prepares for the upcoming season.

www.tsn.ca

The kid said over and over that he just wants to win. Vancouver isn't leaving the basement any time soon.

I think he's playing his last year for the Canucks. Which will make the deadline and next summer very interesting.

I wonder what it would take to get this done. Rasmussen and Kasper? Rasmussen and Danielson? Raymond and Danielson?

 

[norrisnick]

I wonder what it would take to get this done. Rasmussen and Kasper? Rasmussen and Danielson? Raymond and Danielson?

We'd have to Bouchard Mo as well for cap space. Petterson will be $11M minimum to re-sign. Would be nearly impossible to make that work with a big boy Mo extension right away. And Ray would also need a baby bridge. That gets dangerous in a hurry to bridge two guys you hope are in your core.

Not to mention you need at least another first and an A quality piece moving out. At that level of assets it gets squeamish.

And another not to mention, we'd have to demonstrate being in a better spot than Vancouver moving forward. Haven't yet.