Around the League Thread: Non Trade Talk Feb 2016

[htpwn]

From the main board:

So this happened... (reported by Botchford)

 

[LeafsNation75]

After reading that I seriously wonder if the Canucks would have a draft pick taken away? Not sure if this is the same precedent but remember when the Leafs had a 4th round pick in 2009 taken away for how they signed Jonas Frogren, so it sounds like this is a rule the Canucks should have known if the NHL was not happy about it.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

And I wanted Benning as our GM when he was leaving Boston...

And he would have picked Richie instead of Nylander. 100% sure of it.

 

[Daisy Jane]

And I wanted Benning as our GM when he was leaving Boston...

And he would have picked Richie instead of Nylander. 100% sure of it.

there were a looooot of people who wanted Benning to be the GM so don't feel bad. this is why i don't blame Nuck Management. Sure they are probably making things difficult... but Benning is just duummmbb

 

[Trapper]

From the main board:

Perhaps Benning should Trya m(a)kin a new career choice.

 

[Faltorvo]

Perhaps Benning should Trya m(a)kin a new career choice.

ohhhhhhh, notttt bad at alll

I look at Van and i can't help but feel a warm safety blanket has been wrapped around my leafs, with the pro s we have running our club now.

Van feels like they are caught in the Burke/nonuts eras

 

[theIceWookie]

I don't know who those people are, but a reasonable person might blame a serious concussion and various other injuries...

Reasonable people and hfboards rarely go together though

Lol I love it. He calls out coaching for using him, management for only having that quality of a 3rd stringer, and the goalie himself.

To be fair to Melnyk, people forget this is a business. The Sens have been terrible this year. They always do these "1 year rebuilds". Consider the market they're in. They could be winning over Leafs and Hab fans that live there, instead they show 0 consistency. If people in my million dollar business were sucking, I'd definitely call them out.

I think this is a point worth mentioning. Melnyk as a business owner does has expectation on certain returns. Playoffs are a huge thing to any team, the revenue is a big plus when you no longer have to pay out salary anymore. So he has good reason to be frustrated. But the way he went out calling his team out is not great lol. Naming names is idiotic. That's certainly not going to endear any of your team to you haha

 

[theIceWookie]

From the main board:

That...is wildly bad lol. I think that tweet is even more hilarious

there were a looooot of people who wanted Benning to be the GM so don't feel bad. this is why i don't blame Nuck Management. Sure they are probably making things difficult... but Benning is just duummmbb

Yeah...I was one of them. I think I'm pretty thankful for this now. Things just keep looking like he doesn't have a clue as to what he's doing. Though I wonder how much of this is having incompetent staff and way too involved ownership. I mean that can't be making his life easy at all

 

[Daisy Jane]

That...is wildly bad lol. I think that tweet is even more hilarious



Yeah...I was one of them. I think I'm pretty thankful for this now. Things just keep looking like he doesn't have a clue as to what he's doing. Though I wonder how much of this is having incompetent staff and way too involved ownership. I mean that can't be making his life easy at all

but who hired them?
like - did Benning inherit EVERYTHING? I don't think so, right? I mean Linden hired Benning, Benning hired Desjardins, everyone else. the only reason why I remember this is because everyone was like. WHY WON'T SHANAHAN DO SOMETHING. So if his staff is incompetent, isn't that on benning?

i only blame the Aqualini's to a point. I mean... it's not their fault Benning doesn't know his basic CBA.

 

[ULF_55]

I think Melnyk has every right to be upset. It is his investment. He is paying millions of dollars to these bums and they under performed. It's easy to get frustrated when it's your $$$ that are getting flushed down the toilet. He expected his team to make the playoffs, at least, and his employees let him down. I am just trying to look at things from his point of view. If my boss payed me 6 or 7 figures, and I performed way under expectations then he would have every right to rip me.

The Senators have been in the playoffs 3 times in 5 years.

And they have bragging rights for Low Canada!

And thank you, thank you, thank you ... Phaneuf.

How can I dislike a team that took Phaneuf?

Obviously, Melnyk isn't a faceless Org.

 

[theIceWookie]

but who hired them?
like - did Benning inherit EVERYTHING? I don't think so, right? I mean Linden hired Benning, Benning hired Desjardins, everyone else. the only reason why I remember this is because everyone was like. WHY WON'T SHANAHAN DO SOMETHING. So if his staff is incompetent, isn't that on benning?

i only blame the Aqualini's to a point. I mean... it's not their fault Benning doesn't know his basic CBA.

Oh it definitely is on Benning. Even if he didn't hire them, he's still responsible for their actions. That's the role of a manager essentially. So he definitely answers for their mistakes. But I think sometimes people expect too much of GM's (it looks like I'm trying to be an apologist but I'm not I swear haha).

They're leaders, and they manage people. They should know large portions of hockey knowledge but they can't possibly know everything. It would be impossible for him to know every part of the CBA, every part of contract specifics, etc. That's why teams hire certain other people to run those things, and there's an expectation that they know what they're doing.

Benning ultimately is responsible for that, but we also don't know the specifics of his control. We know ownership tends to stick their hands where they shouldn't, we have two previous GM's who have stated as much (starts to show a pattern). So how far does that go? Is Benning allowed to make sweeping personnel changes? Was he allowed to bring in his own people? Or did ownership limit his power, or even state certain people are given jobs (we've all heard stories of ownership in businesses giving very incompetent people jobs, I can't imagine it doesn't happen sometimes in hockey).

Is Benning a good GM? Absolutely not. But there could be more to the story. Maybe I'm being naïve, and maybe I'm giving him too much benefit of the doubt, but it seems a little crazy to think that a GM could just be this bad.

 

[bunjay]

Reasonable people and hfboards rarely go together though

This is undeniably true. HFBoards: where the opportunity to draft and/or develop a player who might become good is better than having a player that's already good.

 

[deletethis]

It's looking more and more like the Oil's annual plunge to the bottom is happening again. Who knew the lottery rule changes would end up applying to them after all?

 

[thewave]

It's looking more and more like the Oil's annual plunge to the bottom is happening again. Who knew the lottery rule changes would end up applying to them after all?

No idea how a rule wasn't instated that limits the top 3 overall picks within a 5 year period.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Oh it definitely is on Benning. Even if he didn't hire them, he's still responsible for their actions. That's the role of a manager essentially. So he definitely answers for their mistakes. But I think sometimes people expect too much of GM's (it looks like I'm trying to be an apologist but I'm not I swear haha).

They're leaders, and they manage people. They should know large portions of hockey knowledge but they can't possibly know everything. It would be impossible for him to know every part of the CBA, every part of contract specifics, etc. That's why teams hire certain other people to run those things, and there's an expectation that they know what they're doing.

Benning ultimately is responsible for that, but we also don't know the specifics of his control. We know ownership tends to stick their hands where they shouldn't, we have two previous GM's who have stated as much (starts to show a pattern). So how far does that go? Is Benning allowed to make sweeping personnel changes? Was he allowed to bring in his own people? Or did ownership limit his power, or even state certain people are given jobs (we've all heard stories of ownership in businesses giving very incompetent people jobs, I can't imagine it doesn't happen sometimes in hockey).

Is Benning a good GM? Absolutely not. But there could be more to the story. Maybe I'm being naïve, and maybe I'm giving him too much benefit of the doubt, but it seems a little crazy to think that a GM could just be this bad.

you sound like me, I am the same way too - like there has to be something else going on, because no one can be that dumb. but i guess in this case a smudge of forgiveness can be given. (I just thought of the Feaster/ROR disaster). I'd think that would be on the capologist/contract negotiator .

 

[burpsalot]

No idea how a rule wasn't instated that limits the top 3 overall picks within a 5 year period.

We can call it the incompetency rule.

How in the world could an organization have 4 1st overall picks in a 6 year span, one of them being a generational pick, yet still be challenging for last place overall. Boggles the mind.

 

[Ovate]

Here's a team I have low expectations for going forward: Buffalo.

Last year, the got Eichel and then behaved like their rebuild was over. They blew their wad and traded most of their future assets. For 2 1sts, a 2nd (31st OA), Grigorenko, and Zadarov, they got Kane, O'Reilly, and Lehner. And it didn't work, they're still a bottom 10 team, except now they also have a bottom 10 farm.

What's their plan for getting better? Just focusing on developing Eichel and Reinhart? No matter how good those two get, I don't think they will ever be good enough to carry the rest of the Sabers to the finals by themselves.

Free agency is weak this year. I can see them adding a veteran defenseman, like Campbell or Goligoski, but those are just contracts that they'll regret in a few years.

I wouldn't be surprised to see them be the next Edmonton, stuck in the basement perennially.

 

[deletethis]

No idea how a rule wasn't instated that limits the top 3 overall picks within a 5 year period.

I'd assume that the league thought (past tense) that surely no team in this modern league with parity would possibly cellar dwell for that long especially after being gifted so many premium draft picks.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

The Senators are imploding yet again internally, thanks to Melnyk and his big mouth. I love it.

It's funny but Eugene is one of the reason cameron is there...not going to say much more but god damn he's annoying.

 

[TMLegend]

Here's a team I have low expectations for going forward: Buffalo.

Last year, the got Eichel and then behaved like their rebuild was over. They blew their wad and traded most of their future assets. For 2 1sts, a 2nd (31st OA), Grigorenko, and Zadarov, they got Kane, O'Reilly, and Lehner. And it didn't work, they're still a bottom 10 team, except now they also have a bottom 10 farm.

What's their plan for getting better? Just focusing on developing Eichel and Reinhart? No matter how good those two get, I don't think they will ever be good enough to carry the rest of the Sabres to the finals by themselves.

Free agency is weak this year. I can see them adding a veteran defenseman, like Campbell or Goligoski, but those are just contracts that they'll regret in a few years.

I wouldn't be surprised to see them be the next Edmonton, stuck in the basement perennially.

Buffalo is gonna be good sooner rather than later. It's just wishful thinking to think otherwise. Eichel will be a dominant #1C, Reinhart should end up as a quality #2 at worst with strong two way ability. Kane, ROR, Girgensons are quality players to have in any organization. Ristolainen is budding #1D, and while the rest of the defense isn't great, Bogosian is a decent piece to have around, and Franson is a solid bottom pair PP specialist. Lehner is the real wild card for them. Health permitting, I think he'll be quality #1 going forward.

 

[showtime8]

ohhhhhhh, notttt bad at alll

I look at Van and i can't help but feel a warm safety blanket has been wrapped around my leafs, with the pro s we have running our club now.

Van feels like they are caught in the Burke/nonuts eras

There's a lot of mistakes that happen with the management side of things.

I remember when Calgary offer sheeted Ryan O'Rielly and if Colorado didn't match his offer, he would have had to go through waivers.

A lot of bonehead mistakes.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

There's a lot of mistakes that happen with the management side of things.

I remember when Calgary offer sheeted Ryan O'Rielly and if Colorado didn't match his offer, he would have had to go through waivers.

A lot of bonehead mistakes.

And they would still have given up a 1st round pick. Was it Monahan they picked with that or Bennett? Either way, a big loss.

 

[HarrisonFord]

Apparently Boston was really pushing to sign Soshnikov. So glad that we were the ones to sign him

 

[I Believe]

Buffalo is gonna be good sooner rather than later. It's just wishful thinking to think otherwise. Eichel will be a dominant #1C, Reinhart should end up as a quality #2 at worst with strong two way ability. Kane, ROR, Girgensons are quality players to have in any organization. Ristolainen is budding #1D, and while the rest of the defense isn't great, Bogosian is a decent piece to have around, and Franson is a solid bottom pair PP specialist. Lehner is the real wild card for them. Health permitting, I think he'll be quality #1 going forward.

Agreed, I think Buffalo can be a scary good team in the future. Eichel is the real deal.

Eichel/Reinhart/Risto is amazing to build around.

 

[LeafsNation75]

but who hired them?
like - did Benning inherit EVERYTHING? I don't think so, right? I mean Linden hired Benning, Benning hired Desjardins, everyone else. the only reason why I remember this is because everyone was like. WHY WON'T SHANAHAN DO SOMETHING. So if his staff is incompetent, isn't that on benning?

i only blame the Aqualini's to a point. I mean... it's not their fault Benning doesn't know his basic CBA.

I don't think Benning had a lot to do with Tyler Seguin being traded from Boston, although he was their Assistant General Manager at that time and was in this video with the Bruins management when they discussed trading him.