Around the League Part 8: Welcome to the league Vegas, and Duchene discussion

[Big Daddy Cane]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/146814743/

I'll go ahead and eat my crow now. Dorion had little to no leverage here, but I figured there would have been enough demand for Hoffman that the price would only go down so much. He is a pretty consistent 25 goal guy signed for a reasonable cap hit with optimal term for a player of his age. I was wrong. I'm disappointed that Waddell didn't get in on that.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Yeah why would any team want a 3-time 30-goal scorer that's still only 26 years old. That wouldn't make any sense.

Ignoring your shitty attempt at sarcasm. Teams have to consider their current situation (ie..are they a playoff team), a players contract (salary and term), and future salary requests when trading for a player. It's not about "wanting" a guy, it's about what it COSTs to get him, given their current situation. It's common sense and certainly not anything new in the NHL.

It all depends on Ottawa's plan for next season. If Ottawa is going to go for broke next year to ensure they make the playoffs, ensure they have a realistic chance to sign Duchene and Karlsson and ensure they aren't giving a lottery pick to Colorado, then I agree, they might want Skinner. If the owner is going to still go the cheap route and they know there is no playoff chance, it would be foolish for them to waste assets for 1 year of Skinner. Really not that complicated.

 

[What the Faulk]

Ignoring your ****ty attempt at sarcasm. Teams have to consider their current situation (ie..are they a playoff team), a players contract (salary and term), and future salary requests when trading for a player. It's not about "wanting" a guy, it's about what it COSTs to get him, given their current situation. It's common sense and certainly not anything new in the NHL.

It all depends on Ottawa's plan for next season. If Ottawa is going to go for broke next year to ensure they make the playoffs, ensure they have a realistic chance to sign Duchene and Karlsson and ensure they aren't giving a lottery pick to Colorado, then I agree, they might want Skinner. If the owner is going to still go the cheap route and they know there is no playoff chance, it would be foolish for them to waste assets for 1 year of Skinner. Really not that complicated.

Agreed, it isnt, so I'm not sure why you feel the need to argue literally every post I've made today.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Agreed, it isnt, so I'm not sure why you feel the need to argue literally every post I've made today.

Pot, meet kettle.

 

[What the Faulk]

Pot, meet kettle.

Let me remind you that you huffed and puffed and ran this off topic after my tongue in cheek celebratory post about the Hoffman trade. But sure, you nailed it here

 

[My Special Purpose]

This sounds to me like two old pros -- Tallon and Wilson -- got together and decided to bend over the guy clearly in over his head. Ruthless.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Let me remind you that you huffed and puffed and ran this off topic after my tongue in cheek celebratory post about the Hoffman trade. But sure, you nailed it here

Let me remind you that I was asking a serious question about where were there talks of a Hoffman for Skinner trade (as I truly wasn't aware of those) or were you talking about 2 moves (skinner elsewhere and Hoffman) and said I didn't think Skinner would waive to go there. Sorry if asking for clarification on a post and giving an opinion on Skinner got your feathers so ruffled.

and re: Ran this off topic. A quick check shows your responses all equaled mine on this topic so like I said, thus Pot, meet Kettle.

 

[What the Faulk]

Let me remind you that I was asking a serious question about where were there talks of a Hoffman for Skinner trade (as I truly wasn't aware of those) or were you talking about 2 moves (skinner elsewhere and Hoffman) and said I didn't think Skinner would waive to go there. Sorry if asking for clarification on a post and giving an opinion on Skinner got your feathers so ruffled.

and re: Ran this off topic. A quick check shows your responses all equaled mine on this topic so like I said, thus Pot, meet Kettle.

I saw your ninja edit. I don't give a shit about any one player. I care about this team getting better, whether that's with this roster or a completely new team assembled by moves that make sense. You should know that by now.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Fair enough. My comment was ninja edited because I regretted typing it and thought it wasn't warranted so I removed it.

 

[Sens1Canes2]

This sounds to me like two old pros -- Tallon and Wilson -- got together and decided to bend over the guy clearly in over his head. Ruthless.

If we got the 4th and 5th this year and the 2nd in 2019 for Hoffman, I’d have been livid. There’s almost zero chance that all three become NHL players, and much less than 50% that even the 2nd rounder makes it. I’ll take the NHL player to replace Hoffman (not the same production obviously but can score, is very fast, and isn’t a ****tard, and $2 million cheaper) with the caveat that I believe this trade was part of Dorion’s attempt to re-sign Karlsson. Getting rid of Hoffman for only futures wouldn’t be the greatest enticement, so he grabbed a 3rd liner who can play up if need be. But the important thing is, he got rid of Hoffman.

We’ll have all the futures we can handle if we trade Karlsson. And they’ll damn sure be better than a 2nd-4th-5th. They got rid of the cancer and even if it only improved the chances of re-signing by 5%, so be it. It’s a crappy situation.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

If we got the 4th and 5th this year and the 2nd in 2019 for Hoffman, I’d have been livid. There’s almost zero chance that all three become NHL players, and much less than 50% that even the 2nd rounder makes it. I’ll take the NHL player to replace Hoffman (not the same production obviously but can score, is very fast, and isn’t a ****tard, and $2 million cheaper) with the caveat that I believe this trade was part of Dorion’s attempt to re-sign Karlsson. Getting rid of Hoffman for only futures wouldn’t be the greatest enticement, so he grabbed a 3rd liner who can play up if need be. But the important thing is, he got rid of Hoffman.

We’ll have all the futures we can handle if we trade Karlsson. And they’ll damn sure be better than a 2nd-4th-5th. They got rid of the cancer and even if it only improved the chances of re-signing by 5%, so be it. It’s a crappy situation.

That all makes sense. Bergman was also a 2014 2nd round pick that is closer to the NHL than a 2019 2nd rounder (although I admit I don't know much about him).

What do you think is the Sens plan this year S1C2? Or they going to try to go after NHLrs and try to get back to where they were a couple of years ago and do everything they can to hold onto Karlsson and Duchene? Or does it all depend on if they can sign Karlsson to an extension and if he doesn't , they will be in rebuild mode?

 

[Sens1Canes2]

That all makes sense. Bergman was also a 2014 2nd round pick that is closer to the NHL than a 2019 2nd rounder (although I admit I don't know much about him).

What do you think is the Sens plan this year S1C2? Or they going to try to go after NHLrs and try to get back to where they were a couple of years ago and do everything they can to hold onto Karlsson and Duchene? Or does it all depend on if they can sign Karlsson to an extension and if he doesn't , they will be in rebuild mode?

I think it’s the latter. Sign EK? Then we’ll be ok and then they’ll sign Duchene and Stone (who’s an RFA). If EK can’t be signed, then that puts Duchene into question. Stone less so, because he’s got two more years until UFA I believe.

Ya. All depends on Karlsson.

 

[MinJaBen]

I think it’s the latter. Sign EK? Then we’ll be ok and then they’ll sign Duchene and Stone (who’s an RFA). If EK can’t be signed, then that puts Duchene into question. Stone less so, because he’s got two more years until UFA I believe.

Ya. All depends on Karlsson.

Do you think they still keep the #4OA pick or do they move it to the Avs and keep the pick next year? I think a lot of that would probably depend on if Karlsson is going to stay, which might not be decided by Friday. Personally, I'd give the Avs the #4 this year and keep a shot at Jack Hughes next year.

 

[GoldiFox]

If we got the 4th and 5th this year and the 2nd in 2019 for Hoffman, I’d have been livid. There’s almost zero chance that all three become NHL players, and much less than 50% that even the 2nd rounder makes it. I’ll take the NHL player to replace Hoffman (not the same production obviously but can score, is very fast, and isn’t a ****tard, and $2 million cheaper) with the caveat that I believe this trade was part of Dorion’s attempt to re-sign Karlsson. Getting rid of Hoffman for only futures wouldn’t be the greatest enticement, so he grabbed a 3rd liner who can play up if need be. But the important thing is, he got rid of Hoffman.

We’ll have all the futures we can handle if we trade Karlsson. And they’ll damn sure be better than a 2nd-4th-5th. They got rid of the cancer and even if it only improved the chances of re-signing by 5%, so be it. It’s a crappy situation.

Good POV. Can be mutually beneficial. One team’s Cap dump is another team’s useful player. Especially if SJ is looking to clear space for a big salary.

 

[GoldiFox]

Do you think they still keep the #4OA pick or do they move it to the Avs and keep the pick next year? I think a lot of that would probably depend on if Karlsson is going to stay, which might not be decided by Friday. Personally, I'd give the Avs the #4 this year and keep a shot at Jack Hughes next year.

Even last place only has a 50/50 shot of a top-3 pick. Just 20% at #1.

Seems like Ottawa would rather just gamble on being not the worst team in the league.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

They should absolutely move it to the Avs this year.

If they are the worst team in the league the worst they can do next year is 4th. That’s where they currently are now.


The good thing is that they have right up until they make the pick. If they like, say, Zadina, and MTL takes him at 3 instead of Kotkaniemi, then maybe they look at their options and give it away.

I, however, think the chances of them having an opportunity to draft someone better than Zadina or Quinn Hughes with their pick next year is fairly high.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I, however, think the chances of them having an opportunity to draft someone better than Zadina or Quinn Hughes with their pick next year is fairly high.

If they give away the pick this year, wouldn't they pretty much sealing the deal on not signing Karlsson and Duchene? They'd be telling everyone they expect to be last place next year and would be going into full blown rebuild. If they have a healthy Karlsson and can get some goaltending and make a couple of moves, they shouldn't be as bad as many think.

I'm thinking they hold onto that pick this year and count on being better next year.

 

[Unsustainable]

I’m just here to read posts and like them.

And I’m all out of reading them.

 

[MinJaBen]

Even last place only has a 50/50 shot of a top-3 pick. Just 20% at #1.

Seems like Ottawa would rather just gamble on being not the worst team in the league.

True, but they don't have to be last place to get any shot at Jack Hughes next year. And my understanding is that next year's draft is deeper than this year's (probably not in defensemen), so maybe a 6th next year gets you a better prospect than the 4th this year with the chance at a guy that is second only to McDavid in quality of prospect in the last 5 years (according to Pronman). And given that so much depends on Karlsson's decision which may not be known by Friday, I'd move it.

 

[FreshSeabass]

 

[A Star is Burns]

Too bad it's in division. Hey, Doug Wilson, help us out.

 

[bleedgreen]

Good luck with that. He's gonna get overpaid for a long time and it won't be cheap in trade to get him.

 

[GoldiFox]

Skinner for Panarin? Maybe Columbus considers if Skinner extends?

 

[A Star is Burns]

Good luck with that. He's gonna get overpaid for a long time and it won't be cheap in trade to get him.

I'll gladly overpay him

 

[bleedgreen]

We want another euro smurf? I know he scores but if they can't afford him we probaly can't afford him. I hope TT is going back the other way if we're doing it. Aho and Panarin I can hang with but that's enough light east/west dangly dudes for me.