Around the league part 2

[Omni Owl]

It hurts to watch ROR in full beast mode during the post season. He would've been the perfect addition down the middle with Kopi and Danault.

 

[Mattias]

I came here to say the exact same thing.

If Blake and Co. were that concerned with another C besides Kopitar + Danault (keeping Byfield + Villardi on the wings), why not just sign another center for the time being?

Looking at ROR's contract though, Nashville signed him for 4 years (this year plus 3 more). That's too long of a contract for a player with a lot of mileage and already 33.

If Blake was so concerned with signing another centerman why didn't he stop and ask himself if he's signing the right one?

My best guess is that the PLD trade opened up and he (again) bidded against himself. He's 100% reactionary.

Covered by 32 thoughts podcast.

La and Montreal had offers on the table. La was more impact assets while Montreal had assets for the future.

Blake increased the quality of his offer. Jets took the impact now offer, then closure with the trade. What I can't recall was if agent negotiation was happening at the same time for an extension.

So yea, Blake just kept upping the bid.

Guerin GM of Wild has gone the record to say that Blake is quite easy to deal with, you just say what you want and he will go with it.

For someone who dressed as a Shark in his career, his business negotiations sound quite meek.

 

[Steve Zissou]

But 4.5m aav is not bad at all basically half of PLDud - so if you have to buy him out after his 3rd year big deal.. he would really have to crator to make it bad contract

I hate to break it to you but there is not many contracts in the NHL worse than PLD's.

Ironically, he didn't even crack the top 10:
The NHL's 10 Worst Contracts of the 2023-24 Season: Midseason Update

Though he did land on The Kings' worst contract, (obviously):
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...acts-on-every-nhl-team-for-the-2023-24-season

@Mattias I actually listen to that podcast and I do remember that episode, also the one with Bill Guerin mentioning that Blake was really straight forward to deal with. Easy to say since he took him to the woodshed.

 

[johnjm22]

A free agent has to want to sign with you. It takes two to tango. Just because you want ROR doesn't mean you get him.

Tennessee has no state income tax BTW. Meanwhile California has one of the highest at 12.3% for income over 700K.

 

[All The Kings Men]

What I can't recall was if agent negotiation was happening at the same time for an extension.

Dubois signed an 8 year contract that wouldn't have been possible unless he signed it with the Jets prior to the trade.

Had he signed an extension after the trade it would have been for 7 years.

 

[Mattias]

Dubois signed an 8 year contract that wouldn't have been possible unless he signed it with the Jets prior to the trade.

Had he signed an extension after the trade it would have been for 7 years.

I might have said my words wrong?

In comparison when we were in discussion around trading for Fiala, the Kings were allowed to negotiate with the agent during the trade talks.
During the PLD trade time there was a segment about how the Kevin Cheveldayoff might not allow teams to negotiate a contract with the player unless the trade in finalized. Whereas other GMs won't want to do any trading unless a contract can be negotiated first.

Hope that sounds a little better. I am tired.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

A free agent has to want to sign with you. It takes two to tango. Just because you want ROR doesn't mean you get him.

Tennessee has no state income tax BTW. Meanwhile California has one of the highest at 12.3% for income over 700K.

It didn't HAVE to be ROR, but would have been nice

Could have been Bjugstad, Eller, Duchene...any number of guys who would have fit in different ways

 

[johnjm22]

It didn't HAVE to be ROR, but would have been nice

Could have been Bjugstad, Eller, Duchene...any number of guys who would have fit in different ways

I don't disagree, but that's still not very many. I think they viewed PLD as having more upside than any of those and his age made him attractive.

 

[kingsholygrail]

A free agent has to want to sign with you. It takes two to tango. Just because you want ROR doesn't mean you get him.

Tennessee has no state income tax BTW. Meanwhile California has one of the highest at 12.3% for income over 700K.

This is so stupid. The Kings would never be able to re-sign anyone if that actually mattered to players. Hockey players give more shits about how close they are playing to home than state income taxes. On top of that, most of those states make up for it in property and sales taxes.

 

[King'sPawn]

A free agent has to want to sign with you. It takes two to tango. Just because you want ROR doesn't mean you get him.

Sure, but the Kings already filled their dance card before the dance started. That's the issue.

Dubois signed an 8 year contract that wouldn't have been possible unless he signed it with the Jets prior to the trade.

Had he signed an extension after the trade it would have been for 7 years.

Are you sure about that? I thought that anyone who owned the rights to the player could sign an 8-year extension. It's only when they sign as a UFA that it is limited to 7 years.

I thought the only reason the extension was signed with the Jets is the Kings wanted to make sure there was an extension in place before the trade (so then PLD couldn't refuse to sign after LA traded away all the assets.

I admit I could fully be misremembering but that's how I always remembered extension rules.

 

[johnjm22]

This is so stupid. The Kings would never be able to re-sign anyone if that actually mattered to players. Hockey players give more shits about how close they are playing to home than state income taxes. On top of that, most of those states make up for it in property and sales taxes.

Ryan O'Reilly is from Clinton Canada.

Different players value different things. But if you think taxes don't matter, you might as well say money doesn't matter.

Property and sales tax is nothing compared to income tax, BTW. There's almost no difference between sales tax and property tax CA and TEN. Plus home prices are cheaper in Tennessee.

If it didn't matter you wouldn't be seeing migration out of higher tax states to lower ones.

Players have to pay taxes in each area they play (if applicable), but having half your games in a no income tax states makes a difference. It makes and even bigger difference if you're getting a bonus.

I own a business here in CA, I've been considering moving it to NV. It matters.

 

[LAKings88]

What I still don’t get about PLD, didn’t Bowmess call out unnamed players after the loss to Vegas. Right after they jettisoned PL and Wheeler. So this is the dude BLuc so highly coveted? It’s so hard not to watch him play and not come away wanting more. He has some great tools. He isn’t more than a 60 pt guy tho at most unless he can find another gear.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Ryan O'Reilly is from Clinton Canada.

Different players value different things. But if you think taxes don't matter, you might as well say money doesn't matter.

Property and sales tax is nothing compared to income tax, BTW. There's almost no difference between sales tax and property tax CA and TEN. Plus home prices are cheaper in Tennessee.

If it didn't matter you wouldn't be seeing migration out of higher tax states to lower ones.

Players have to pay taxes in each area they play (if applicable), but having half your games in a no income tax states makes a difference. It makes and even bigger difference if you're getting a bonus.

I own a business here in CA, I've been considering moving it to NV. It matters.

I don't think they matter enough to prevent a player from signing somewhere and there's no indicator it's any other way in the NHL.

 

[Schrute farms]

I came here to say the exact same thing.

If Blake and Co. were that concerned with another C besides Kopitar + Danault (keeping Byfield + Villardi on the wings), why not just sign another center for the time being?

Looking at ROR's contract though, Nashville signed him for 4 years (this year plus 3 more). That's too long of a contract for a player with a lot of mileage and already 33.

If Blake was so concerned with signing another centerman why didn't he stop and ask himself if he's signing the right one?

My best guess is that the PLD trade opened up and he (again) bidded against himself. He's 100% reactionary.

Because they (Bluc) are Morons

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Ryan O'Reilly has played for 5 teams--STL, TOR, BUF, COL, NSH, signed with 3 of them. He, in addition, signed a big offer sheet with the Calgary Flames.

It doesn't seem like he discriminates as much as is suggested. Maybe at this stage in his career? It's all speculation. The overall point was that the Kings are/were looking for a good 2/3C sort of player and there were a good available and surely more available via trade, especially a trade of the assets that Blake made available.

 

[All The Kings Men]

Sure, but the Kings already filled their dance card before the dance started. That's the issue.

Are you sure about that? I thought that anyone who owned the rights to the player could sign an 8-year extension. It's only when they sign as a UFA that it is limited to 7 years.

I thought the only reason the extension was signed with the Jets is the Kings wanted to make sure there was an extension in place before the trade (so then PLD couldn't refuse to sign after LA traded away all the assets.

I admit I could fully be misremembering but that's how I always remembered extension rules.

I am NOT sure about that. Good point.

 

[johnjm22]

 

[johnjm22]

I don't think they matter enough to prevent a player from signing somewhere and there's no indicator it's any other way in the NHL.

No one signs anywhere purely because of taxes. Every player weighs factors differently, but taxes are probably a consideration in many cases.

If LA offers him the same contract, he actually gets about a million dollars more post tax by playing in Nashville. That will likely be one of the factors in the decision.

 

[All The Kings Men]

 

[All The Kings Men]

that's a metaphor for the conversations about what motivates free agents to sign in different markets in case it wasn't obvious

 

[Steve Zissou]

 

[Steve Zissou]

Great start to the series, obviously.

 

[Bandit]

Don't make me report this...

 

[kingsholygrail]

I swear the Bruins have the most fan fights where they both support the Bruins.

 

[YP44]

It didn't HAVE to be ROR, but would have been nice

Could have been Bjugstad, Eller, Duchene...any number of guys who would have fit in different ways

No thanks to Duchene as a defensive 3rd line center.