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vanuck

Now with 100% less Benning!
Dec 28, 2009
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I do think if he were traded to a contender he would start playing like the Iginla of past though.

Yeah, I think so too. He certainly didn't look like he couldn't care less though against us last game.

In a vacuum I think I'd take Iggy, but factor in real situations and Doan would surely cost us less to acquire - if only because Feaster would have to ask for the moon from us.
 

dave babych returns

Registered User
Dec 2, 2011
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Who gives a $*&# what Rhett Warrener thinks? Why is hockey reporting constantly full of these stupid narratives?

Gotta wonder if a guy like Warrener has been waiting for the numbers to fit the narrative he's seen for years.. some outside of the Flames sphere of influence (and I'm not talking about Warrener here) have observed Iginla as being unwilling to commit to many elements of the game Flames coaches have preached over the years.

Yeah I kind of agree.

Trading him now looks terrible given you they could have gotten more for him a few years ago it's kind of like admitting you just wasted the past few years.

That said, his deal is up this year and perhaps he doesn't want to sign in Calgary. If he doesnt want to be there then perhaps trading him become more palatable.

Even if he is standoffish in renegotiations I could see them still failing to take the hint.

Every time Friedman reports on Iginla he talks about how nobody wants to be seen as the man who dealt Jarome out of Calgary; in an organization that rudderless I could see that kind of fear taking precedence over a sober assessment of where that team is headed.

Come to think of it, I don't know which action would better reflect the Calgary Flames in the Jay Feaster era... holding onto Jarome Iginla at all costs, or making a too little, too late deal that leaves them a vastly worse team now without making them a significantly better team later.
 

BeardyCanuck03

@BeardyCanuck03
Jun 19, 2006
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The Iginla stuff is such nonsense. Typical dumb reactionary hockey reporting. Iginla has 41 shots in 10 games, good for 19th in the entire NHL. He's not going to shoot 2.4% all year: he's a 13% career shooter. If he was playing up to his typical shooting percentages over the past three seasons, he'd have 6 goals by now.

If he kept shooting at this pace, he'd have more shots-per-game than he's had since he scored 50 goals in 2007-2008.

Who gives a $*&# what Rhett Warrener thinks? Why is hockey reporting constantly full of these stupid narratives?

How many Flames games have you watched? Has Iginla actually looked like the player who has put up a 13% shooting percentage? Are the shots he's taking actually quality shots?

I like advanced stats as much as the next guy but I'm not sold on the fact that shooting more will always equal more goals. It's not quantity it's quality that leads to offense. Is Iginla gonna continue shooting 2.5% this year, not a chance, but he's not looking like the Iginla that everyone knows and praises.
 

rebel diamond

Registered User
Sep 2, 2008
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Toronto
So Elliotte Friedman has a great theory on why the Sharks got their ***** handed to them by Columbus:

Elliotte Friedman ‏@FriedgeHNIC

Think the Sharks were distracted tonight because their homes are closest NHL city to North Korean nuclear test

Problem with that is that Vancouver is in fact the closest NHL city to North Korea. I don't think Friedman understands that the earth is round.
 

Tiranis

Registered User
Jun 10, 2009
23,097
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Toronto, ON
So Elliotte Friedman has a great theory on why the Sharks got their ***** handed to them by Columbus:



Problem with that is that Vancouver is in fact the closest NHL city to North Korea. I don't think Friedman understands that the earth is round.

I think the problem is that the joke went completely over your head.
 

Tiranis

Registered User
Jun 10, 2009
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Toronto, ON
How many Flames games have you watched? Has Iginla actually looked like the player who has put up a 13% shooting percentage? Are the shots he's taking actually quality shots?

I like advanced stats as much as the next guy but I'm not sold on the fact that shooting more will always equal more goals. It's not quantity it's quality that leads to offense. Is Iginla gonna continue shooting 2.5% this year, not a chance, but he's not looking like the Iginla that everyone knows and praises.

Even if he were an average defenseman he wouldn't keep shooting 2.5%.
 

Eddy Punch Clock

Jack Adams 2028
Jun 13, 2007
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Come to think of it, I don't know which action would better reflect the Calgary Flames in the Jay Feaster era... holding onto Jarome Iginla at all costs, or making a too little, too late deal that leaves them a vastly worse team now without making them a significantly better team later.

Kippers injury worse than first thought. Out two more weeks.

If the Flames tank these next two weeks it will be Feasters best chance to start the fire sale. He can blame the injury on putting him in the position where he had no choice. He might avoid a lynching this way.
 

Proto

Registered User
Jan 30, 2010
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How many Flames games have you watched? Has Iginla actually looked like the player who has put up a 13% shooting percentage? Are the shots he's taking actually quality shots?

I like advanced stats as much as the next guy but I'm not sold on the fact that shooting more will always equal more goals. It's not quantity it's quality that leads to offense. Is Iginla gonna continue shooting 2.5% this year, not a chance, but he's not looking like the Iginla that everyone knows and praises.

Well, it's early, but let's take a look at a few numbers:

He's getting 4 shots per game on net. This would be his highest average since he scored 50 goals on 338 shots in 2007-2008 (and scored 50 goals).

Shot quality is hard to determine using statistics, and I haven't watched a ton of Flames hockey this year (some, though), but I can tell you that his shot distance normally sits around 29-35 feet at ES, and this year he's at 25.2. His ES SH% has gone down in recent years from 11 to about 8%, but he should still be finding the net on some of these shots. And he will, if he keeps shooting.

He's also missing the net only one in 6 times he shoots, as opposed to the 1 in 3 times he normally misses the net. This could mean he's not shooting for corners, or that he's shooting more accurately, or it could just be statistical noise. It does make me think he probably won't keep shooting at 4 shots per game, but 3.5 is reasonable.

Even as his own ES SH% has regressed in recent seasons, he's seen a steady 10% ES shooting rate on his line. Tanguay helps, too, as he's one of very few non-elite NHL players that seems to have shown a penchant for increasing his linemates ON SH% at ES. Nevertheless, Iginla is a handful, and his line usually scores about 20% more often on ES shots than your typical NHL line would. This year they're ticking along at a paltry 6.67%.

Iginla has probably lost a step defensively, but he's getting 880 ES goaltending right now. That's miserable. As has been said many times, even the very worst defensive players in the NHL probably wouldn't account for an ES SV% dropping below maybe 900.

For what it's worth -- again, it's early -- Jarome is starting in the O zone 53% of the time and finishing there 60% of the time, which is good. He has a PDO of 947, which is really rotten luck.

I don't doubt that Iginla has lost step: he's 35. But he's been relatively healthy in his career, is a notorious slow starter, and is probably not in the same shape guys that played in Europe are. Despite all this, some of his underlying numbers simply point to really bad luck for him. It's unlikely he's just driven off a cliff here.

Ideally he would be on an elite team's 2nd line and 1st unit PP or on a team with an obvious opening on their top line (/cough Penguins) that he could slot into.

I think the Flames are a bit better than people give them credit for when healthy. They have a reasonable Top 9 (love Hudler/Tanguay on that team for the price), decent but overpaid top 3 defenders, and questionable goaltending.

We'll see what happens, but I'd expect Iginla to score at a 30g/65-70pt pace.
 

vanuck

Now with 100% less Benning!
Dec 28, 2009
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^ Good post. Are you getting these numbers from BTN or something?

Iginla on the Pens is a scary thought... yet I could see it happening.
 

me2

Go ahead foot
Jun 28, 2002
37,903
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Dubinsky is grittier than Higgins, Booth and Raymond. Maybe even more so than Hansen.

Who do Columbus have playing centre? Would they rather have a winger that can score a little more? Booth for Dubinsky?

He also earns as much as Higgins, Hansen and Schroeder combined, or Higgins and Raymond. We need to make sure he's a significant upgrade.

Booth for Dubinsky is definitely interesting, but I would not have thought they have the centre depth.
 
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Jyrki

Benning has been purged! VANmen!
May 24, 2011
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I'd do Booth for Dubinsky. Don't think Columbus would though, they need his PKíng ability.
 

Burke's Evil Spirit

Registered User
Oct 29, 2002
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San Francisco
He's listed as a centre on NHL.com and is second on their team in face-offs. I know he's played both in his career.

My mistake. However this is the first time he's played center in the NHL - the Rangers used him exclusively on the wing.

If Dubinsky can be an effective center I would definitely not mind him on the Canucks. Not at the expense of Booth though. Something like

Sedins-Burrows
Booth-Kesler-Kassian
Raymond-Schroeder-Dubinsky
Higgins-Lapierre-Hansen

...would be incredibly solid, and if a center goes down Dubinsky is a way better option in the middle than anyone else we have.
 

canuck4life16

It what it is-mccann
May 29, 2008
13,380
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I don't see the Flames tanking unforunately they might think they can still make the playoffs as a underdog when they stand no chance with no number 1 or 2 center, half the time is old and slow, and lots of NTC doesn't help either to blow up the team
 

nameless1

Registered User
Apr 29, 2009
18,202
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I don't see how Dubinsky fits on the Canucks, especially with Kesler back.
I see him as a 2nd/ 3rd line tweener, and not talented enough for the 1st line, at least on a permanent basis.
He probably would not mesh with Kesler, because he is a crash-and-bang forward, and does not have enough playmaking ability that Kesler needs.
He would be amazing on the 3rd line, but he has a 4.2 million cap hit.

Plus, Columbus would never do it.
He is a hear-and-soul player who can do a bit of everything and is even willing to do the dirty work, and that is what is lacking in Columbus.
He might be more talented than some of the forwards the Canucks have, such as Hansen and Higgins, but they have basically the same skill set, and they are a lot cheaper.
I like Dubinsky, but he really does not fit on the team right now.
 
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