Around the League 28: Expect the unexpected

[bleedgreen]

Going back to the Pierre hire I'm a little worried for Ott.

Pierre always sounds so high on every prospect and their ceiling that he'd want to promote too early and that is usually the opposite of what you want to do.

Just wayyy too excited about the shiny toy and that doesn't seem to have changed.

He treated the Whalers prospects exactly the opposite, I wouldnt worry about that. He rode Pops Nylander like a show pony.

 

[Bunch of Jurcos]

I don't like this expansion draft at all. It's holding our moves up and we haven't been in the news in like...days. Fine I guess I'll live through Oilers (yuck) and Wild (meh but damn) and whoever else until we win the offseason later this month.

 

[Canes]

I don't like this expansion draft at all. It's holding our moves up and we haven't been in the news in like...days. Fine I guess I'll live through Oilers (yuck) and Wild (meh but damn) and whoever else until we win the offseason later this month.

I'm sure it's about to pick up within the week all the way until August. Expansion draft + entry draft + flat cap = insanity incoming

 

[bleedgreen]

Interesting. If true (and not sure it is), I wonder if it was an "old boys club" sort of thing. It was surprising when they moved Staal with no legit centers last year as well.

Which worked out very well for them. Another classic hf moment to go against the herd. It was never going to be a good time to buy them out. They didn’t have enough cap space to sign Kaprizov and Fiala both, they were going to have to lose one of Sturm/Greenwood/ Foligno after getting beaten up last expansion draft. They were going to have to lose Dumba.

Now they opened up enough space to sign both two rfa’s, they keep everyone they want to keep in expansion draft, they open up spots for more youth to keep building what they did this year. This was a pretty good move. They’re in cap hell either way, this was they survive another year with the guys they’re building around.

 

[hblueridgegal]

Interesting. If true (and not sure it is), I wonder if it was an "old boys club" sort of thing. It was surprising when they moved Staal with no legit centers last year as well.

I believe Russo has alluded to it a few times especially after Guerin took over, i.e. they wanted a different mindset and culture.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Which worked out very well for them. Another classic hf moment to go against the herd.

I didn't think HF was too against that move as many wild fans said Staal had really slowed down and wasn't the same player. Sure there were some on HF that were, mainly because of the positional depth, but you can find that in any move here on HF.

Saying "it worked out well for them" is a bit misleading though. Johansson didn't do much for them at all.

It was never going to be a good time to buy them out. They didn’t have enough cap space to sign Kaprizov and Fiala both, they were going to have to lose one of Sturm/Greenwood/ Foligno after getting beaten up last expansion draft. They were going to have to lose Dumba.

Now they opened up enough space to sign both two rfa’s, they keep everyone they want to keep in expansion draft, they open up spots for more youth to keep building what they did this year. This was a pretty good move. They’re in cap hell either way, this was they survive another year with the guys they’re building around.

I don't think this is a bad move at all to be honest. Without it, they had expansion draft issues as well as cap issues so if anything, this was the best time to do it.

 

[bleedgreen]

I didn't think HF was too against that move as many wild fans said Staal had really slowed down and wasn't the same player. Sure there were some on HF that were, mainly because of the positional depth, but you can find that in any move here on HF.



I don't think this is a bad move at all to be honest. Without it, they had expansion draft issues as well as cap issues so if anything, this was the best time to do it.

The Wild got hammered on the main board last off season.

I agree, it was the right time for this.

 

[A Star is Burns]

I don't know that the Parise and Suter moves are great or awful. But it was probably necessary and definitely justifiable.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

The Wild got hammered on the main board last off season.

.

I'll have to go back and look.

That said, like I added in my edit, I think saying "it worked out well for them" is a bit misleading as Johansson was pretty bad for them and didn't contribute much.

 

[hblueridgegal]

Maybe KK has the keys to the car?

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

I don't know that the Parise and Suter moves are great or awful. But it was probably necessary and definitely justifiable.

I don't know. One benefit is that they don't need to deal Dumba for relative peanuts anymore. The entire Wild offseason revolves around whether they can get their man signed, AKA. Kaprizov, and if they can finally get that 1C. If they can't get all of those done, then it'll be looked at as bad moves, whether deserved or not, because of those dead cap hits.

 

[hblueridgegal]

Suter, never, ever envisioning that the Wild would actually buy out both contracts at the same time, hung up on the GM.

Tuesday’s news is the latest example of Guerin overhauling the culture inside the Wild locker room and on the ice.
Since he became GM 23 months ago, Guerin has traded Zucker, Eric Staal and Devan Dubnyk, didn’t bring back captain Mikko Koivu and now has cut ties with Parise and Suter.

 

[hblueridgegal]

Surprising news.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Surprising news.

Just sounds like Hieskanen is back. They will run out of space quickly

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Just sounds like Hieskanen is back. They will run out of space quickly

It may well be that Jim Nill and the Dallas FO is focusing on bringing back Oleksiak and giving a long-term extension for Heiskanen instead of a bridge deal, hence why the space might not be there for Coleman.

 

[mikeyfan]

Pekka Rinne retired today

 

[Lempo]

Oh wait. Am I slow in the uptake, but Parise and Suter had NMCs.

I guess they didn't want to waive for ED purposes.

 

[Socks]

I didn't expect Spanish Inquisition.

Nobody ever does.

 

[Discipline Daddy]

I think the Minny move was needed. What a pill to swallow. Sheesh. Essentially, the highest price of the 2012 signings will be felt in '23-24 and '24-25. Insanity. Imagine thinking about getting Parise-Suter now, but having 18% of your cap ($14.6M) dead after 11-12 years. If they won the cup, it's probably worth it. It sucks now, but I'd rather have all that dead money tied up than lose Dumba for nothing and then maybe not sign KK.

If you were to tell me we could get Hamilton AND Landeskog for the next 10 years, but then have an onerous cap situation in 2033, I'd be like

 

[dogbazinho]

I mean if I were a millionaire GM with an average shelf life of like 5 years screw the future.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I think the Minny move was needed. What a pill to swallow. Sheesh. Essentially, the highest price of the 2012 signings will be felt in '23-24 and '24-25. Insanity. Imagine thinking about getting Parise-Suter now, but having 18% of your cap ($14.6M) dead after 11-12 years. If they won the cup, it's probably worth it. It sucks now, but I'd rather have all that dead money tied up than lose Dumba for nothing and then maybe not sign KK.

If you were to tell me we could get Hamilton AND Landeskog for the next 10 years, but then have an onerous cap situation in 2033, I'd be like

Landeskog's a decent comparable for what Minny thought they were getting in Parise.

Problem is, in both cases you're looking at a guy who has already had his best years. What you're getting on that contract is the late 20s, early 30s edition instead of the younger pedal-to-the-metal edition. The older version of this type of player isn't really good enough to be part of the long term core, and now the contract makes him unmoveable, and you're stuck. It's a recipe for disappointment and mediocrity. And that's before we even get into the cultural effects on the franchise.

What's happening in Minny lately reminds me a lot of our own transition from Rutherford to Waddell. Guerin has been willing to rip off some band-aids and doesn't seem to have FOMO about letting "name" veterans walk. What he's doing is hard, but it's laying a foundation for a better version of the Wild franchise.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Brandon Carlo took the Pesce deal. That's somewhat shocking, but there is that thing in Boston and Tampa where some key guys are willing to take slightly less to contend with a loaded roster. Hopefully the Canes are trying to build a similar machine.

 

[bleedgreen]

I don't know. One benefit is that they don't need to deal Dumba for relative peanuts anymore. The entire Wild offseason revolves around whether they can get their man signed, AKA. Kaprizov, and if they can finally get that 1C. If they can't get all of those done, then it'll be looked at as bad moves, whether deserved or not, because of those dead cap hits.

Why are they bad cap hits considering the situation? Three years from now they would have those guys playing for the same cap hits. At 39. Washed up. Distractions. Creating issues for the team. That’s not better than this. They wanted the players gone and don’t want that distraction. It’s like the argument about Skinner, keeping him for the year would’ve raised his trade value as he likely would’ve gone anywhere for a playoff run leading to ufa, but we got rid of him because the team wanted the change now. They wanted a different attitude and feel. This is no different. They’ve been rebuilding and it’s time for those players to move on. Those cap hits were going to be there either way. Forcing them onto ltir could’ve been really ugly.

 

[DaveG]

Why are they bad cap hits considering the situation? Three years from now they would have those guys playing for the same cap hits. At 39. Washed up. Distractions. Creating issues for the team. That’s not better than this. They wanted the players gone and don’t want that distraction. It’s like the argument about Skinner, keeping him for the year would’ve raised his trade value as he likely would’ve gone anywhere for a playoff run leading to ufa, but we got rid of him because the team wanted the change now. They wanted a different attitude and feel. This is no different. They’ve been rebuilding and it’s time for those players to move on. Those cap hits were going to be there either way. Forcing them onto ltir could’ve been really ugly.

In fact it likely would have ended in penalties from the league along the lines of what Arizona got hit with for their unsanctioned prospect workout shenanigans. They aren't some league darling market like Toronto or Chicago where they can just go full Robidas Island with LTIR bullshit and only get a shrug by the league. Minnesota? Nah man, they'd get the full Jules Winfield reaction and be struck down with great vengeance and furious anger... and you will know his name is Colin Campbell when he lays his vengeance upon thee.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Oh wait. Am I slow in the uptake, but Parise and Suter had NMCs.

I guess they didn't want to waive for ED purposes.

On the main board, it was reported that they're never asked to waive. Just bought out. Not sure how legit that is though.